BG2 is overrated, not as good as BG1 and is not a top 10 CRPG

[anvi]

"Exploration" is gay.

 

[Skdursh]

You have shit taste.

 

[Cael]

Cael

Bring Pai'na (mod). It will surely be... Interesting. Also she's the definitive mage killer (hand in hand with Keldorn... OK, Keldy might be better).

Can't get her in BG. BG2 might be fun, though. Have a party of 3 drow wandering around the place for shits and giggles.

You can go BG1EE and add Baeloth



Oh, and instead of Pai'na, you can bring Solaufein in BG2 for extra Eilistraee edginess

Neither of whom are waifus. Fail! :D

 

[BING XI LAO]

BG2 is full of dogshit gimmicks like the city subsections (which are justt plonked about and disconnected unlike BG1 having a real city completely fleshed out, with certain city walls being visible continuing between areas, sewers being a means of travel, it all fits!) all having a name and more or less strict theme. HELLO THIS IS THE TEMPLE DISTRICT, THINGS HERE ARE RELIGION THEMED.

Dogshit, DOGSHIT intro in Irenicus' dungeon. Bg1 intro is swift and tasteful, BG2 one is full of LOADS of wanky cutscenes and edgy talking. For example there's that djinn next to a pool that talks in some highly portentous manner, that is never explained or leads to anything. This game is so SHIIIIIIET

Random supermagical stuff all over the place. DOGSHIT graphics (because a BG1 artist died between games). The first time I played, hot off enjoying BG1, I quit in disgust halfway through Irenicus' dungeon because the goblin graphics were shit, the entangle spell graphic had been changed from looking like green, organic vines to gay fucking neon glowy shit (typical of BG2), fireball graphic had been downgraded, portraits had been downgraded, I started with Minsc and Jaheira despite having killed them and kept Khalid and Dynaheir in BG1. Possibly the ugliest dogshit was the shields because some animefag had added spikes onto all of them in a bid to faggotise innocent RPG players.

Also you're forced to save an Elven tree city. Being forced to save a human city was bad enough in Bg1, but dogshit hippie elves?

BG2 turned out pretty good though later on in the game.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Exactly that.

It sucks for exploration. It's an RTS engine and exploration comes down to uncovering fog of war, that's it.

It presents no tools to explore either, just a bunch of encounters spread around a small map.

Are you sure you play BG1 and aren't talking about BG2? BG1 has relaxing exploration of quite large maps that are expertly interconnected in the main world map. BG2 is linear and the areas are more of "set pieces" for "awesome quests and stuff" and less of a realistic world that BG1 presents. Exploration in BG1 is great, you never know what's on each map, you fight a few encounters here and there, casually explore and continue to look for clues on what's going on in the world. Compared to BG2 where everything is "URGENT!!!!1" and exploration really doesn't make much sense as your best friend could be being horrifically tortured in Spellhold while you're talking to djinns and fighting vampires for no apparent reason. BG1 just gives you room to breathe and enjoy the sights and the story unfolds slowly which adds to the exploration, IMO.

And to the person who keeps saying I quit BG2 because "too many spells!!", would you kindly take a hike. I tried finishing BG2 three times and get burned out every time because the game just bores me. I played the last run with SCS and all the hardcore mods turned on and it was just a slogfest, even after finishing BG1 and Siege of Dragonspear in the same run. I get burned out because I don't enjoy the game, not because "too many spells". Having too many spells and being too dense are just a few reasons why I don't like BG2 much as a total package.

 

[Lhynn]

BG1 has relaxing exploration of quite large maps that are expertly interconnected in the main world map.

Im sure. Im not comparing BG1 to 2, im comparing it to the whole genre, and it loses badly. The maps are relatively small and the encounters simple, and theres very little worth getting when exploring. Also there are no real secrets or, as i said before, tools to explore. Its barebones.

BG2 is linear and the areas are more of "set pieces" for "awesome quests and stuff" and less of a realistic world that BG1 presents.

They are both in a high magic setting where wizards are everywhere. In terms of realisms they both fail, not that it matters anyway. Who gives a fuck if a forgotten realms game is realistic.

Exploration in BG1 is great

No, its not. Its better than BG2s, but that isnt a high bar. There are tens if not hundreds of examples of RPGs with better exploration and a more grounded setting that gives you plenty of room to breathe.

I get burned out because I don't enjoy the game, not because "too many spells". Having too many spells and being too dense are just a few reasons why I don't like BG2 much as a total package.

Different strokes for different folks. Its largely a matter of opinion what game you like or enjoy the most.
What game is objectively better and held as a standard for the genre is pretty clear, and theres a reason for that.

 

[Theldaran]

Of course you get tired of BG2. If you know your shit, you can do a quick speed run through BG1 and circumvent most of the content. Perfect for impatient ones.

Anyway when you get your healthy ration of fireball wands, the game becomes a cakewalk. Though I must say that the final battle is almost always a challenge. It plays differently than the rest of the game.

That also brings us back to exploration. Stack of fireball wands = God mode, but first you must procure them, for example scouring the wilderness.

 

[abnaxus]

 

[Theldaran]

Yes, he's edgy, and I would understand despising such a character, but isn't that as planned? He's the big bad boy.

 

[Poseidon00]

I completely agree with OP. BG1 is better in every way but NPC interaction, and it wasn't as devoid of that as some claim. BG1 is flooded with content and can be significantly challenging to the uninitiated. Sarevok was interesting, looking at him in the opening scenes you think he's going to be the classic dumb, evil brute but he ends up being highly cunning and manipulative. When I mod for the IE engine it's only for BG1.

TOB was better than BG2 and is still a significant step down from BG1.

 

[ga♥]

I don't enjoy the game, not because "too many spells".

Having too many spells and being too dense are just a few reasons why I don't like BG2 much as a total package.

 

[Theldaran]

That's like saying a shooter has "too many weapons" or a fighting game has "too many fighters".

And yes, Sarevok is cunning, but off-screen, unlike Irenicus, he's a baddie that you never meet for the majority of the game. So that's bull in a way.

Probably Irenicus was going to be the same way, so they gave us such "marvelous" cutscenes. Strictly better than telling the story in documents, I'd say.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Of course you get tired of BG2. If you know your shit, you can do a quick speed run through BG1 and circumvent most of the content. Perfect for impatient ones.

Anyway when you get your healthy ration of fireball wands, the game becomes a cakewalk. Though I must say that the final battle is almost always a challenge. It plays differently than the rest of the game.

That also brings us back to exploration. Stack of fireball wands = God mode, but first you must procure them, for example scouring the wilderness.

It takes me 100 hours each time to get through BG1, because I play slowly and enjoy the journey.

Lhynn, yes, other games have great exploration too, but we're talking in the isometric genre. It doesn't get much better than BG1, although IWD has great exploration in the dungeons mostly, while BG1 is mostly overland terrain. PS:T is cool but doesn't have great exploration in the sense there's not a lot of maps and areas to visit, and the set piece maps later in the game are offshoots and not really connected much with the main areas. There's not many isometric CPRGs that do exploration better than BG1. Fallout is there (haven't played 2, but 1's exploration was very nice), Arcanum of course, but what BG does specifically is its own thing. You can't really compare it with Gothic or some other genre. While there aren't a ton of secrest it still has a sense of wonder, a sense of relaxation and a sense of discovery, and playing through the game is a very nice thing to me for those reasons. On the other hand I don't enjoy exploring BG2 much. Oh, and the city of Baldur's Gate itself is wonderful, my favorite city to explore in a CRPG thus far.

But yes, different strokes and all that. I just made the thread to get a little discussion going and being silly with the thread topic. I realize opinions are subjective and everyone has their own take on it, which is cool. But to me I keep replaying BG1 while I find BG2 just a bit boring and too dense for my tastes.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

That's like saying a shooter has "too many weapons" or a fighting game has "too many fighters".

It's not just "too many spells", it's that the game is overwhelming in a number of areas. The spell list is enormous and higher level, while I prefer the more mundane excitement of a low level spell list. The game throws too many urgent things at you, giving you a sense you have to act quickly. While Kingmaker does this too, it spreads them out and gives you lenient amounts of time to do them. BG1 doesn't have many "real" timers, but it still instills a sense of urgency, just like the difference between Oblivion and Morrowind, i.e. Morrowind is relaxing, do what you want, explore, while Oblivion gives you a sense of real urgency that you MUST close Oblivion gates and everything is going to hell. I prefer the former in almost every CRPG I play.

The spell list is alright, I enjoyed tinkering with the different cleric and wizard spells, but the game overall is just too overwhelming to me. I like lower level content and striving for that +1 or +2 longsword, instead of magical items being dropped like candy. That's just my personal preference. It's not necessarily the spells being too much to me, it's just the higher level content as a whole. Hope that clears it up a bit.

 

[Theldaran]

I dunno, it's only urgent if you want. Otherwise do the first quest that comes to mind, raise the money, go to Spellhold and proceed after saving that bitch. Oh, also no urgency in saving Imoen for Evil characters I guess. Since they'd probably hate her guts.

 

[ga♥]

BG2 gives you a sense of urgency? There's not a single timed quest in BG2, and for roleplay reason there's just Imoen. While there are several in Bg1. You just found Bg2 too complicated somehow... which means you are retarded, and so is this topic. Fin.

edit: actually maybe some quests in the drow city are timed. IIRC 2 at most though and they are pretty minor.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

BG2 gives you a sense of urgency? There's not a single timed quest in BG2, and for roleplay reason there's just Imoen. While there are several in Bg1. You just found Bg2 too complicated somehow... which means you are retarded, and so is this topic. Fin.

Riiiiight. I found it boring, not too complicated. I get burned out every time I play it. And I know there are no "real" timers, just like there aren't in Oblivion. That doesn't change the fact that they make you feel rushed by giving you 5 urgent quests at the beginning of the game. Not sure why you have a beef with my preferences but to say it's too complicated for me is retarded.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I enjoy Siege of Dragonspear more than BG2. Yeah, I said it, come at me bro.

And complicated systems are my bread and butter. The more complex and difficulty they are the more I enjoy them. I'm about to start a blind run of Arcanum and enjoy every second of it's complexities. That's kind of what I do and why I always harp on complex pen and paper systems being the core of my favorite CRPGs.

 

[Poseidon00]

I think my main issue with BG2, as much as I do like it, is that there is so much replay-ability in party composition but there is zero replay-ability in the quests. I haven't played it nearly as much as i've played BG1 and I can still basically recite most of the quests lines word for word. BG1 is full of so much little content you will almost never do it all on a regular playthrough. Sometimes the odd fetch quest or two gains more importance when the alternative is having 5 or 6 side quests in the whole game. The story of BG1 feels more significant, the city goes from a safe place to somewhere difficult to explore, NPCs will randomly babble about significant story developments, etc. BG2 is devoid of any feeling of significance to the plot. Almost anywhere you go in BG1 there's someone with a story to tell or something for you to do. Everything just feels more interactive, more alive. Except the NPCs.

But mods fix this as well, and a lot more work has been done to BG2 as opposed to 1 in this regard.

 

[Theldaran]

What 5 urgent quests? What the heck are you talking about?

Also, if talking about exploration, what about being left on a huge city looking for 20,000 (nay, 15,000) coins?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

What 5 urgent quests? What the heck are you talking about?

As soon as you start walking around the city everyone is coming at you with a quest that sounds important. It's not the relaxing type of roleplaying I enjoy most. In BG1 you're just going around finding clues about bandits for the most part, then 50 hours in, boom, they hit you with a giant city to get lost in. At the very start of BG2 everything seems "Epic!!!1" and they start feeding you quests just by moving around the city.

 

[Theldaran]

That's just like any RPG city, including pen and paper, ever.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

That's just like any RPG city, including pen and paper, ever.

Okay. And the way they present it in BG2 still sucks.

 

[Theldaran]

That's just like any RPG city, including pen and paper, ever.

Okay. And the way they present it in BG2 still sucks.

Your arguments why it sucks suck even more.

 

[hell bovine]

What 5 urgent quests? What the heck are you talking about?

As soon as you start walking around the city everyone is coming at you with a quest that sounds important. It's not the relaxing type of roleplaying I enjoy most. In BG1 you're just going around finding clues about bandits for the most part, then 50 hours in, boom, they hit you with a giant city to get lost in. At the very start of BG2 everything seems "Epic!!!1" and they start feeding you quests just by moving around the city.

Ironically, Pathfinder has no city to show and fails at epic level combat (last two chapters) by comparison, which is why I'm guessing you haven't finished it either... Before proclaiming it's so much better.