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Epic vs Steam - the console war comes to PC

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by LESS T_T, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    90% of the indie devs who complain about Steam's algorithms and "too high" profit cut getting in the way of their economic survival make shitty, forgettable games nobody really cares about.

    Meanwhile something genuinely interesting and with a soul like Disco Elysium is released on Steam and manages to sit on the #1 spot in the RPG top selling list for days.

    Yeah maybe just, I dunno, make better games?
     
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  2. Viata Arcane

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    That is not 100% true, though. There are lot of good games that doesn't sell well and there are games like PUBG that sells like water in the desert. What people usually forget is about marketing. If Disco Elysium had been released, but had done 0 marketing, it would not sell well because hardly people would know about it. The thing with EGS is that it hardly has many game, so any new game is going to be known in that store, your game gets free marketing just by existing there. When EGS gets bigger, it will be the same thing as in Steam and people will come up with another excuse as for why their "great top tier" game doesn't sell. At the end of the day, it's all about how well you can sell your game.
     
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  3. ultimanecat Erudite

    ultimanecat
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    I’m pretty sure the (not so) secret hope of the devs and journalists is that Epic becomes a primary target for release because it will be curated and, by extension, it can be used to peddle influence.

    Valve doesn’t keep anything but the most obvious trash off of Steam. Some devs hate that they’re in constant competition and sharing space with asset flips and games about raising animal girls to have sex with. A new popular store that only lets certain types of games in is a way to avoid that. Make the right friends on Twitter with the right folks and *poof* your game is always on EGS but none of that other stuff is.

    Valve also as a matter of policy doesn’t judge games on their content short of it being arguably illegal. Journalists and some devs hate this, because when they deem a game “problematic”, Valve doesn’t care and sometimes the game even goes on to be very successful and (e.g. Kingdom Come) and the Nazis win. With a new popular store that curates content, a handful of bloggers and woke devs can tweet and write articles about how Epic is allowing Kingdom Come 2 on EGS and people are literally (not really) dying because of the hate speech it promotes and why is Epic allowing this? And *poof* some sympathetic manager you’re friends with at Epic delists the game or never allows it in the first place.
     
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  4. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    I'm sure the reason Transformers made billions of dollars at the box office and stuff like Ex Machina, Dredd and Prospect made a pittance is because Transformers is the "better" sci-fi movie, right? I'm sure all Codexers will agree that top 10 revenue list for PC posted last page are the 10 best games on the platform, right? You make a great point that higher revenue always means higher quality. After all, we all know Fallout 3's higher revenue and mainstream attention was a pivotal example in RPG improvement. Thank you for bringing clarity to the conversation.
     
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  5. Silentstorm Learned

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    A lot of it does come to marketing, i mean, even if you aren't rich and can't pay for a big campaign, you could do trailers, talk about it on social media, send free copies to Youtubers and Streamers and spice up your store page.

    For example, there is this game on Steam called Heiankyo Alien, someone just recommended it to me at one point, i liked it for the simple arcade game it is and the developer randomly contacted me just to ask if i was liking it, being that apparently so few people bought the game the guy can just talk to whoever buys it, and in the middle of the discussion i find out, oh, this game is doing relatively well in the japanese market, as in, it's become a literal arcade game in Japan:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    It's a Pac-Man like game with several twists and it's gotten various versions in Japan due to being so popular there, it's kinda like Skullgirls, an indie fighting game that also became huge enough in Japan to get arcade machines.

    Heck, the machines are popular enough there are exclusive modes and content that will never come to PC because not enough people bough it, western gamers ignored it, japanese gamers are playing it on arcades right now, and the Steam page doesn't mean the fact that, you know, it's a maze game that is good enough that without any anime elements or anything like that, just simple graphics, became big enough to get various machines in Japan, you'd think that would be worth a mention or two, but you'd be wrong.

    Instead, the PC version is just abandoned(with a promised future mode having been announced in...2017 and still not arriving), there is no console version, not even a Switch port, and it's just lying there, i mean, the developer is still making games, but you know, they have a cool fact about this game that they never used to change the Steam page at the very least, meaning, the fact that it's good enough to become an actual arcade machine, good enough that someone paid money to make actual cabinets out of it, they don't even use "We make games that became good enough to become arcade machines in Japan" in any page of their more recent games.

    I mean, i may just be bad at marketing, but i think i would put that in every page, that's actually a pretty cool thing and a great sign when we are talking about arcade-style games, or you can just complain how no one buys the game when it's biggest market is playing on a cabinet and abandon it, why the fuck not?
     
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  6. Viata Arcane

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    You forgot to mention Heiankyo Alien is an old as fuck Japanese game and that is the reason it has a lot of arcade version there. The steam version is a remake, in fact.
     
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  7. Reinhardt Arcane

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    Even
    are still better than shit
    trying to shove down your throat.
     
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  8. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

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    Well, "Indie" often refers to those hipsterish cartoony games that are a dime a dozen. No wonder they don't sell.
     
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  9. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    All the more reason why you need more than just "quality" to stand out in a sea of endless crap.
     
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  10. Reinhardt Arcane

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    99,9% of games ARE part of this sea of endless crap.
     
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  11. Viata Arcane

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    At this point, game itself is the crap in this sea.
     
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  12. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

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    I want to print this and put it on the wall, because it is so true.
     
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  13. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    There's a ton of worthless shit indie games sure. And a ton of okay indie games that big fans of the genre will like but most people won't. Then there's the real classics spread around in there somewhere too. The point is, there's so much endless, endless stuff coming out that isn't "AAA," the only way to stand out is to get attention beyond the norm. I don't think being "a good game" gets you that attention on its own in any way, nor do I think being a "bad game" stops you from getting that attention. It's all about marketing, who you know, stunts and unique aspects that get eyes on your shit.
     
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  14. unfairlight ヽ(✿゚▽゚)ノ Patron

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    It is different, since Creative was by far the biggest around with only a handful of smaller competitors, but there's hundreds of games each year all of which they can't hope to buy and many of those are made by much bigger companies than Epic. Realistically you can't compete if you don't get the games to entice people to come to your platform, the Fortnite crowd is big but I am certain Epic has analysts who can say how many of those would be interested in other games. I don't think it has to be Epic's own games that have to give that initial push to the platform like it was with uPlay and Origin, it could very well be others. The only time it's truly questionable is if it's games that were already announced on Steam first, in which case yeah that's kind of lame and a discomfort but not the end of the world if they offer refunds.
     
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  15. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    I uninstalled Control on the Epic Client to install The Outer Worlds and now my games list looks like this...

    [​IMG]

    Rebooting the client did nothing, clicking it does nothing. Fun!
     
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  16. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

    J_C
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    B-b-but it's just another free client!
     
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  17. V_K Arcane

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    Malware acting wonky. Who'd have thought.
     
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  18. Drakron Arcane

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    Epic doesnt have many of their own games, neither does Valve.
    uPlay and Origin were basically back when everyone wanted to have their own launcher, Battle.net for example but because as publishers they kinda are relegated to their own studios releases there was no real drive for people to use then, especially considering they were released in similar state as Epic launcher and like Epic launcher have not really improved that much.

    The difference been how Valve approached Steam since all those other launchers were tied to big developers that have a tendency to simply take smaller studios, if you release only on Origin you are putting your studio financial support at the hands of EA and hope they dont fuck you over just so they can acquire your studio and do what they always do, with Valve that have not happened since Valve culture is unlike the major publishers.

    The issue with Epic is how they are bringing in the exclusivity cancer to PC as well what can come after, that being a return to pre-Steam with small studios being forced into deals with major publishers because of Epic "curation", this to me is really Epic end game.
     
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  19. JBro Savant

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    Brought it on yourself. Eat shit.
     
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  20. unfairlight ヽ(✿゚▽゚)ノ Patron

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    They used to. You wanted to play Counter Strike, Half Life 2, Team Fortress 2 or Left 4 Dead (all massive games, obviously), you'd have to go on Steam. That's what gave Valve the initial push.
    Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. Pointless to argue about something that hasn't happened and shows no signs of happening. Arguably studios could support themselves better with the 88/12 cut and it's not like crowdfunding will disappear. Epic isn't interested in being self-defeating and just setting up a clique with a few big publishers with the right to publish on their store, they know well that surprise indie hits like say Undertale can carry a digital storefront.
     
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  21. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    Been saying their client is shit from the start. Baffles me they don't improve it faster, which is the point of my post. Not actually worried about having access to the game, for many obvious reasons.
     
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  22. Rahdulan Arcane Patron

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    To be perfectly fair that was really about jumping from CD key authentication to an actual service client that would function as a hub for said games.
     
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  23. passerby Savant

    passerby
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    I'm affraid that your average modern dev believes that extremely rudimentary web frontend, or phone app user interface running on some bloatware, is the epitome of the software engineering.

    So I wouldn't hold my breath, they probably don't believe there is anything wrong with it in the first place.
     
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  24. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
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    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Just checking here, but are you saying that AAA games can't be crap?
     
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  25. Dexter Arcane

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    Most importantly I wonder why they didn't ask any of the Indies that "didn't make the cut" or wanted to be on the "Epic Store" but weren't allowed? They didn't seem to have a problem asking them when Steam was curating this way or during Greenlight. Realistically there's like 5-10 games that can "make it" onto such a Store a month at the most, while there are hundreds, if not thousands being produced. Strange that they're asking the Indie studios that got a deal and:
     
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