Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

[Reinhardt]

Well, "Indie" often refers to those hipsterish cartoony games that are a dime a dozen. No wonder they don't sell.

All the more reason why you need more than just "quality" to stand out in a sea of endless crap.

99,9% of games ARE part of this sea of endless crap.

 

[Viata]

At this point, game itself is the crap in this sea.

 

[J_C]

Valve also as a matter of policy doesn’t judge games on their content short of it being arguably illegal. Journalists and some devs hate this, because when they deem a game “problematic”, Valve doesn’t care and sometimes the game even goes on to be very successful and (e.g. Kingdom Come) and the Nazis win. With a new popular store that curates content, a handful of bloggers and woke devs can tweet and write articles about how Epic is allowing Kingdom Come 2 on EGS and people are literally (not really) dying because of the hate speech it promotes and why is Epic allowing this? And *poof* some sympathetic manager you’re friends with at Epic delists the game or never allows it in the first place.

I want to print this and put it on the wall, because it is so true.

 

[DalekFlay]

99,9% of games ARE part of this sea of endless crap.

There's a ton of worthless shit indie games sure. And a ton of okay indie games that big fans of the genre will like but most people won't. Then there's the real classics spread around in there somewhere too. The point is, there's so much endless, endless stuff coming out that isn't "AAA," the only way to stand out is to get attention beyond the norm. I don't think being "a good game" gets you that attention on its own in any way, nor do I think being a "bad game" stops you from getting that attention. It's all about marketing, who you know, stunts and unique aspects that get eyes on your shit.

 

[unfairlight]

The depressing thing is that Creative managed to single handedly kill 3D audio, since they bought out all the competition and made a monopoly

(Funny that competition is good until it's Steam vs Epic, but that's something for another thread.)

It is different, since Creative was by far the biggest around with only a handful of smaller competitors, but there's hundreds of games each year all of which they can't hope to buy and many of those are made by much bigger companies than Epic. Realistically you can't compete if you don't get the games to entice people to come to your platform, the Fortnite crowd is big but I am certain Epic has analysts who can say how many of those would be interested in other games. I don't think it has to be Epic's own games that have to give that initial push to the platform like it was with uPlay and Origin, it could very well be others. The only time it's truly questionable is if it's games that were already announced on Steam first, in which case yeah that's kind of lame and a discomfort but not the end of the world if they offer refunds.

 

[DalekFlay]

I uninstalled Control on the Epic Client to install The Outer Worlds and now my games list looks like this...

Rebooting the client did nothing, clicking it does nothing. Fun!

 

[J_C]

I uninstalled Control on the Epic Client to install The Outer Worlds and now my games list looks like this...

Rebooting the client did nothing, clicking it does nothing. Fun!

B-b-but it's just another free client!

 

[V_K]

Malware acting wonky. Who'd have thought.

 

[Drakron]

I don't think it has to be Epic's own games that have to give that initial push to the platform like it was with uPlay and Origin, it could very well be others.

Epic doesnt have many of their own games, neither does Valve.
uPlay and Origin were basically back when everyone wanted to have their own launcher, Battle.net for example but because as publishers they kinda are relegated to their own studios releases there was no real drive for people to use then, especially considering they were released in similar state as Epic launcher and like Epic launcher have not really improved that much.

The difference been how Valve approached Steam since all those other launchers were tied to big developers that have a tendency to simply take smaller studios, if you release only on Origin you are putting your studio financial support at the hands of EA and hope they dont fuck you over just so they can acquire your studio and do what they always do, with Valve that have not happened since Valve culture is unlike the major publishers.

The issue with Epic is how they are bringing in the exclusivity cancer to PC as well what can come after, that being a return to pre-Steam with small studios being forced into deals with major publishers because of Epic "curation", this to me is really Epic end game.

 

[JBro]

I uninstalled Control on the Epic Client to install The Outer Worlds and now my games list looks like this...

Rebooting the client did nothing, clicking it does nothing. Fun!

Brought it on yourself. Eat shit.

 

[unfairlight]

neither does Valve.

They used to. You wanted to play Counter Strike, Half Life 2, Team Fortress 2 or Left 4 Dead (all massive games, obviously), you'd have to go on Steam. That's what gave Valve the initial push.

The issue with Epic is how they are bringing in the exclusivity cancer to PC as well what can come after, that being a return to pre-Steam with small studios being forced into deals with major publishers because of Epic "curation", this to me is really Epic end game.

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. Pointless to argue about something that hasn't happened and shows no signs of happening. Arguably studios could support themselves better with the 88/12 cut and it's not like crowdfunding will disappear. Epic isn't interested in being self-defeating and just setting up a clique with a few big publishers with the right to publish on their store, they know well that surprise indie hits like say Undertale can carry a digital storefront.

 

[DalekFlay]

Brought it on yourself. Eat shit.

Been saying their client is shit from the start. Baffles me they don't improve it faster, which is the point of my post. Not actually worried about having access to the game, for many obvious reasons.

 

[Rahdulan]

neither does Valve.

They used to. You wanted to play Counter Strike, Half Life 2, Team Fortress 2 or Left 4 Dead (all massive games, obviously), you'd have to go on Steam. That's what gave Valve the initial push.

To be perfectly fair that was really about jumping from CD key authentication to an actual service client that would function as a hub for said games.

 

[passerby]

Baffles me they don't improve it faster, which is the point of my post.

I'm affraid that your average modern dev believes that extremely rudimentary web frontend, or phone app user interface running on some bloatware, is the epitome of the software engineering.

So I wouldn't hold my breath, they probably don't believe there is anything wrong with it in the first place.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

There's a ton of worthless shit indie games sure. And a ton of okay indie games that big fans of the genre will like but most people won't. Then there's the real classics spread around in there somewhere too. The point is, there's so much endless, endless stuff coming out that isn't "AAA," the only way to stand out is to get attention beyond the norm. I don't think being "a good game" gets you that attention on its own in any way, nor do I think being a "bad game" stops you from getting that attention. It's all about marketing, who you know, stunts and unique aspects that get eyes on your shit.

Just checking here, but are you saying that AAA games can't be crap?

 

[Dexter]

Satisfactory dev says Epic is “trying to make it better” for indie studios

Most importantly I wonder why they didn't ask any of the Indies that "didn't make the cut" or wanted to be on the "Epic Store" but weren't allowed? They didn't seem to have a problem asking them when Steam was curating this way or during Greenlight. Realistically there's like 5-10 games that can "make it" onto such a Store a month at the most, while there are hundreds, if not thousands being produced. Strange that they're asking the Indie studios that got a deal and:

“I think as an indie studio it’s nice to have that security that you know that your game is going to get out there and you don’t need to worry about making certain financial deadlines”

 

[fantadomat]

LoL give me a few millions for making a pixel jumping around, and i too will be praising them about how good they are for the idie devs .

 

[DalekFlay]

Just checking here, but are you saying that AAA games can't be crap?

Of course they can be, but the "AAA" market isn't anywhere near as flooded.

 

[Drakron]

Arguably studios could support themselves better with the 88/12 cut and it's not like crowdfunding will disappear. Epic isn't interested in being self-defeating and just setting up a clique with a few big publishers with the right to publish on their store, they know well that surprise indie hits like say Undertale can carry a digital storefront.

Two things.

The "cut" is for publishers as the money doesnt go to the studio first or publishing decisions are made by them, we seen stories over how developers are still being fucked over by publishing deals ... sure there are cases of where the developer and publisher is the same but most cases they are not, Other Worlds for example was something that Private Division (Take Two) decided on.

The second is Epic is in fact very interested on having exclusivity with AAA titles and not interested in being Indy Welfare, they are doing it from necessity for now but they always gone about curation meaning what they want is having a more selected catalog of games and that means AAA titles, this is bad for small developers because lets take Hollow Knight, its self published and yes, its kickstarter but its a project that would simply not exist pre-Steam and its not a project that would enter Epic curated Store simply because it would be seen as a niche "does not sell much" game, the problem with "surprise hits" is that for every one there are about a hundred or more failures.

 

[unfairlight]

The "cut" is for publishers as the money doesnt go to the studio first or publishing decisions are made by them, we seen stories over how developers are still being fucked over by publishing deals ... sure there are cases of where the developer and publisher is the same but most cases they are not, Other Worlds for example was something that Private Division (Take Two) decided on.

That varies from contract to contract with studio to studio. Some might have all the revenue from game sales go to the publishers and while others may have a certain cut go to the developers. In the case of the latter, more money is still going to to the developer's pockets.

The second is Epic is in fact very interested on having exclusivity with AAA titles and not interested in being Indy Welfare, they are doing it from necessity for now but they always gone about curation meaning what they want is having a more selected catalog of games and that means AAA titles

I reiterate, Epic is not interested in being self-defeating. They will open the floodgates sooner or later because they know it's preferable if everyone is buying games from their store instead of going to Steam or Itch to buy their indie games. I assume that "curation" in Epic's case will simply mean that they will try to keep out the absolute crap since Valve admitted defeat with Greenlight which was an arbitrary gutter where anyone who got a votebot would get on the store, and instead just swapped it out for a flat $100 fee so now you get stuff like this on the store. I think Epic just doesn't want to turn into something as terrible as a mobile app store.
Beyond that, it's not as if Steam, Itch, GOG or any other service will disappear if Epic grows into something serious.

this is bad for small developers because lets take Hollow Knight, its self published and yes, its kickstarter but its a project that would simply not exist pre-Steam and its not a project that would enter Epic curated Store simply because it would be seen as a niche "does not sell much" game, the problem with "surprise hits" is that for every one there are about a hundred or more failures.

Hollow Knight would've been a flash game and hobby project before Steam, digital distribution and the indie boom.

 

[Gerrard]

Hollow Knight would've been a flash game and hobby project before Steam, digital distribution and the indie boom.

Funny how Japanese indie devs could make games that weren't made in flash before digital distribution and the indie boom.

 

[JBro]

White people ruin everything.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

 

[V_K]

Epic brings moar free games for everyone:

The Epic Games Store Has a Massive Security Flaw

William Worrall

October 25, 2019 21:48 UTC

• The Epic Games Store is already riddled with issues, and now another bug appears to have surfaced.
• CCN discovered a way that users can gain access to a game even if they don’t own it.
• It might seem great for users to share the same copy of a game, but Epic Games could suffer more trouble as a result.

The Epic Games Store has suffered from several controversies recently. From losing hours of players’ Borderlands 3 saved data to Epic founder Tim Sweeney becoming notorious on Twitter for wading into debates. The Epic Games Store is not particularly popular amongst many people these days.

As if those problems weren’t enough, it seems like we may have discovered a pretty big flaw in the Epic Games Store system. If you install a game through the store by logging into someone else’s account, you can continue to play the installed game even if you log back into your own account.

Exploit Testing

While logging into my account earlier today, I discovered that a game I didn’t own but which was already installed from another Epic Games Store account was appearing in my library. Trying to boot the game resulted in it running fine, no error messages or stops at all. This was replicated on another machine and the result was always the same. As long as you had a game installed in the Epic Games directory, you could run the game even if you didn’t own it.

The exploit was consistently replicable even when creating a completely new account that doesn’t own any games. As well as making a new account we even tested the exploit on a third machine and the exploit persisted, meaning that it is almost certainly possible to do this with any account, on any machine.

DRM Problems

This exploit seems to have something to do with a lack of DRM or license-checking on the part of the store. Back when Borderlands 3 was released, gamers on Reddit and Twitter discovered that they could still play the game after refunding it by locating the executable on their PC.

As of right now, it seems possible to access pretty much every game another user might own by simply logging into their account, installing all of their games, and then logging back into your own account. While this could arguably be seen as a good thing for users of the store, for developers it might be a cause for concern. It means that multiple people can share a single copy of the game, potentially dramatically reducing sales.

Even if this exploit stops working after a few days or weeks, it is easy to get around this caveat by occasionally logging back into the account which owns the game. This exploit is a pretty big problem for the Epic Games Store, which already has a lot of criticism aimed at it for alleged spyware as well as for Epic’s predatory business practices.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

While logging into my account earlier today, I discovered that a game I didn’t own but which was already installed from another Epic Games Store account was appearing in my library. Trying to boot the game resulted in it running fine, no error messages or stops at all. This was replicated on another machine and the result was always the same. As long as you had a game installed in the Epic Games directory, you could run the game even if you didn’t own it.

Finally some incline from Epic, to bad they will probably fix it.