About an hour in to System Shock 2, so far, not impressed

[Jick Magger]

Technically yeah, and it was System Shock 2. An Energy (especially if you delve into the OSA and get electron cascade) build involving one or two laser pistols and a laser rapier basically ensured that you could be more-or-less ammo independent for most of the game.

Buuuuuuuuuut they accomodate for this by making laser pistols pathetically weak, and if you wanna get specific, then you could technically count psi-hypo's as ammo and hang, draw and quarter me for heresy.

 

[baturinsky]

Quake 2 and Unreal have weak pistols with infinite ammo. Evil Dead:Regeneration has no ammo at all.

 

[MetalCraze]

Laser rapier + psi char = you can go through the whole game kicking ass (if you can call dying less - kicking ass in SS2 that is). Until in the very last bossfight you find out that the only way to win it is to hack 3 terminals with 80-90 difficulty each and you have no ice-picks left as well as didn't put enough (maximum) points into hacking...

 

[evdk]

I've never actually played OSA but isn't there a psi power that lets you hack like a baws?

 

[DraQ]

I've never actually played OSA but isn't there a psi power that lets you hack like a baws?

There is but not quite like a bawws - you hack as if you had hack skill and cyb equal to 1/2 of your psi (rounded up).
You need psi boosters, recursive psionic amplification and/or +psi implant for it to be feasible on harder hacks, by default you can at most hack a replicator, provided it's not too hard.

On the upside you can use it to hack at a distance.

 

[potatojohn]

Laser rapier + psi char = you can go through the whole game kicking ass (if you can call dying less - kicking ass in SS2 that is). Until in the very last bossfight you find out that the only way to win it is to hack 3 terminals with 80-90 difficulty each and you have no ice-picks left as well as didn't put enough (maximum) points into hacking...

You don't need to hack them. You can just jump onto the middle platform and bonk her on the head.

 

[MetalCraze]

Don't you need to hack at least one for that?

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

Nerds make best games. Real nerds, not modern hipster shit I'M SUCH A NERD

carmack's games suck.

 

[DraQ]

Nerds make best games. Real nerds, not modern hipster shit I'M SUCH A NERD

carmack's games suck.

That's because he underwent romerotomy.

 

[Multidirectional]

So, Matt, did you get to your second hour yet or what? Don't leave us hangin'.

 

[Absalom]

I ALWAYS saved my ice picks for the boss. Made it pathetically easy that way. Meh, it shouldn't have had a "final boss" anyway. And laser pistols are GREAT against the big warmechs especially with overload. I need to finally play this game as a psy-user...

 

[Average Manatee]

Technically yeah, and it was System Shock 2. An Energy (especially if you delve into the OSA and get electron cascade) build involving one or two laser pistols and a laser rapier basically ensured that you could be more-or-less ammo independent for most of the game.

Buuuuuuuuuut they accomodate for this by making laser pistols pathetically weak, and if you wanna get specific, then you could technically count psi-hypo's as ammo and hang, draw and quarter me for heresy.

Psi-Hypos are everything and everything is Psi-Hypos, thanks to recyclers/duplicators. Though it's still true that Energy Weapons and Melee are the only means to get "free" damage, which is situational and sometimes need augmenting.

Arguably even the Laser Pistol isn't "free" since there are repair costs to consider. But that's a lot of shooting (especially if you use overcharge, which doesn't increase degradation rate).

 

[potatojohn]

Don't you need to hack at least one for that?

Don't think so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJSVv7jLsn8

This guy killed her with just a couple of GL shots without any hacking.

 

[agentorange]

While I love the music in SS2 (SS1's is better though)

This. SS2 music, like the SS2 itself, didn't reach the SS1 heights of sheer style and cool but it deserves for how damn close it got.

And now gentlemen the best piece of music in all vidyagaim creation (I know there're many remixes but honestly, the original remains the best; the cyberpunk is so, so strong in this one):

How do you feel about the Mac version? Starts at about 2:15.

Edit: Guess it would help if I posted it..

 

[cvv]

How do you feel about the Mac version? Starts at about 2:15.

As I said, no version of this can be anything less than great.

For me though, the gritty, primitive, computerized soundblaster sound is where it's at. I always thought this is the version Shodan herself would've composed. All the others - just your standard MIDI sound with some weird pan pipe mixed in :D

 

[Gentle Player]

I too was disappointed with SS2, albeit for different reasons, though admittedly I was hyped up beyond belief seeing that everyone raves about it whilst the first rarely gets a mention. Surprise surprise, I enjoyed SS1 more.

In SS2 you can already see some of the elements of decline which have become staples of the genre. In SS1 you wake up from your healing coma and are thrust into this nightmare scenario with barely any guidance. Lansing sends you a few e-mails detailing the current threat and your broad objectives, but every transmission after the first is interrupted by Shodan. You're left to puzzle out the minutiae of what you have to do by exploring, listening carefully to logs, and using your own wits; at no point do you have anyone barking objectives at you. Shodan is a constant presence, and this is what makes her a great villain. She always has some plot or other in motion, giving you the illusion (or, if you're playing on Story difficulty 3, the very real threat) of immediacy; and, when you foil one of her plans, she is always one step ahead. There is constant interaction between her and the player which often has a very real effect in terms of gameplay: she taunts you, set traps for you, interrupts your e-mails, and sends cyborgs to hunt you down whenever you do something to annoy her.

Contrast this with SS2. First of all, you have to go through a banal tutorial which for some reason isn't separated from the main game a la Thief or Deus Ex. A minor complaint as it takes less than a minute if you just run through, but I thought it was amusing that instead of just picking your starting stats from a menu and getting on with it, your career paths are chosen in-game - all in the name of "immersion", but actually this runs counter to immersion and breaks the fourth wall: "once you've chosen a posting that suits you, walk down the corridor and into the corresponding shuttle". Yes, I'm sure that's how job applications will be handled in 2111. Nitpicking perhaps, but my real complaint comes when the game properly starts. From the outset you have Polito/Shodan barking very clear objectives at you; none of the alienation, ambiguity and subsequent discovery of SS1. At first I thought that the player was just being eased into things, but no - this goes on throughout the entire game. Even at the very end, when Shodan distorts reality, you have those improbable hand-holding logs from Delacroix(sp?) explaining to you what's happening and what you must do. From an atmosphere point of view it would have been far more effective to leave them; from a gameplay point of view they were irrelevant.

Shodan, Xerxes and the Many were constant presences in the sense that they were speaking to you, but it wasn't merely good voice acting that made Shodan a great villain. Unlike in SS1, their taunts rarely corresponded to anything you were doing on screen other than simply reaching certain points. Gone is the sense of immediacy. In SS1 there were various threats looming - the laser, the virus, the antenna etc. - but in SS2 very little seems to be happening other than that you're plodding along following Shodan's orders and fighting the Many, waiting for her inevitable betrayal. It would have been far more original and interesting to have her not betray you, but there we have it. Also, there was that very questionable pseudo-cutscene upon discovering Polito's body, where Shodan spouts out the history of Citadel Station in typical rambling villain fashion without rhyme or reason. Though I liked the theme of flesh versus machine, overall SS1 had better writing. Voice acting too.

Enough has already been said about how rushed the last levels were; the end was rubbish.

I won't go on bashing SS2 - I still thought it was a great game; the survival aspect, especially on the higher difficulties, was sublime, carefully managing your inventory and resources, coveting every maintenance tool and every bullet (the fact that there are people who use mods to turn off or reduce the impact of weapon degradation really boggles the mind, that was one of the best elements of the game) - but I can see why anyone would be disappointed after playing the original. Why, in both the mainstream press and even in more niche gaming circles, does SS2 completely overshadow its predecessor?

 

[SCO]

They're graphic whores, enough said.

J_C justify yourself (probably hasn't even played SS2 much less 1)

 

[J_C]

They're graphic whores, enough said.

J_C justify yourself (probably hasn't even played SS2 much less 1)

I stopped playing SS2 after starting it a few weeks ago because of lack of time. But after modding it up properly, the game looks pretty good for an old game. I can't say anything about the gameplay yet, but I doubt that I wouldn't like it. ( I like everything afterall)

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Why, in both the mainstream press and even in more niche gaming circles, does SS2 completely overshadow its predecessor?

Probably because SS was literally ahead of its time, meaning that many of its (great) ideas weren't really fleshed out and gameplay-wise it could be a pain. And, believe it or not, not all people are storyfags who would deem a computer game better because of the way the main villain addresses the player. Yes, the ending was rushed and kinda sucked, but SS2 is simply a better game.

And while I can agree with many of your points on the storyfaggy side of SS, personally I find SS2 better atmospehere-wise. SS2 scared me shitless back when it came out (I actually deem it the only genuinely scary game, not only resorting to cheap jump scares), SS didn't do much for me in that regard although I was much younger when I first tried it.

 

[Pablosdog]

System shock 2 is one of my favorite games. What it does is well is what other games lack, which is pacing and atmosphere. I still till this day get chills when the big reveal occurs 3/4th of the way through the game. There are many subtexts in the game. Dehumanization, motherhood, Xenophobia, and it combines some of my favorite science fiction/horror subgenres(body horror and cyberpunk). The techno music just fits with the atmosphere.

 

[Sunsetspawn]

OP is faggot. I just GOGed SS2 because it was five bucks and it's the best damn 5 bucks I've ever spent. I'm about 3 hours or so in and I'm rummaging around cargo bays for the engineering code, or keycard, one or the other. I ain't readin what you motherfuckers are writin cause yall love to sperl shit, but I'll be back periodically.

As I play it I try to imaging what a "remake" of this would look like (without Ken Levine directing it) and I can't imagine any scenario in which a better game is made.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

OP is faggot. I just GOGed SS2 because it was five bucks and it's the best damn 5 bucks I've ever spent. I'm about 3 hours or so in and I'm rummaging around cargo bays for the engineering code, or keycard, one or the other. I ain't readin what you motherfuckers are writin cause yall love to sperl shit, but I'll be back periodically.

As I play it I try to imaging what a "remake" of this would look like (without Ken Levine directing it) and I can't imagine any scenario in which a better game is made.

I remember on my second playthrough I removed crosshair and played on impossible with saturation toned down and very slight bloom to add some 'shining' to the light sources. Then I turned brightness lower to add some contrast.
I don't know what you would think about it, but the result was pretty much interesting after some tweaking. I was literally afraid to go into the dark areas. Would recommend to try it after beating it once or twice.

 

[baturinsky]

OP is faggot. I just GOGed SS2 because it was five bucks and it's the best damn 5 bucks I've ever spent. I'm about 3 hours or so in and I'm rummaging around cargo bays for the engineering code, or keycard, one or the other. I ain't readin what you motherfuckers are writin cause yall love to sperl shit, but I'll be back periodically.

As I play it I try to imaging what a "remake" of this would look like (without Ken Levine directing it) and I can't imagine any scenario in which a better game is made.

System Shock 2 could use better combat system, like in Dead Space 2. And I would very like to have System Shock 1 remake with less horrible interface.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

OP is faggot. I just GOGed SS2 because it was five bucks and it's the best damn 5 bucks I've ever spent. I'm about 3 hours or so in and I'm rummaging around cargo bays for the engineering code, or keycard, one or the other. I ain't readin what you motherfuckers are writin cause yall love to sperl shit, but I'll be back periodically.

As I play it I try to imaging what a "remake" of this would look like (without Ken Levine directing it) and I can't imagine any scenario in which a better game is made.

System Shock 2 could use better combat system, like in Dead Space 2. And I would very like to have System Shock 1 remake with less horrible interface.

Am I the only one who actually LIKED the interface in SS1?

 

[DraQ]

Am I the only one who actually LIKED the interface in SS1?

GUI was good, fixed binds and control methods were shit.

snip

I can't really agree. Ignoring holes in the premise SS2 had better logical succession of events. It also had much better atmosphere.
It did disappoint mechanically, however:

First, there was no feeling of enhancement supposedly conferred by your cybernetics - in SS1 you could plug so many different things into your brain giving you shielding, improved senses and extra information, improved locomotion, cyberspace access (although cyberspace sucked) and so on. In SS2 you have... goggles. Yay. Zey do nothing. You can't even play games in your mind, you need a fucking gameboy for that.

Second, the hard skill restrictions on using a lot of stuff (weapons, armour) made no fucking sense - a grunt not being able to use not only a fusion cannon or some exotic weapon, but even an AR or basic shotgun or pistol? Little kids used as cannon fodder in Africa can use assault rifles just fine without having zee goggles plugged into their eye-sockets.

Third, SS1 had more diverse and less redundant arsenal. Energy weapons fired actual beams, laser rapier actually used energy and so on. It was also amplified by much more meaningful resistance system - some weapons could fail to damage enemy altogether not just because of wrong damage type, but also by failing to get through the armour.

Fourth, there was a lot more stuff to fiddle around with - energy weapons had continuous power settings, you had a lot of explosives you could throw manually, with settable timers and fuses, you had patches, you had usable cameras.

Fifth, EMP grenade effect was awesome.

Psi powers and radiation mechanics were nifty in 2, though. Can't say anything bad about research, repair, modification and having to maintain your weapons either (also hacking the damn turrets).