Baldur's Gate Baldur's Cringe 3 compilation thread

[thesecret1]

WotC had already figured out how to avoid the issue of mobs that can't hit due to high defenses: Make defenses not universal, and allow stacking mods. Even in 3e, the kobolds can take our high level hero, surround him (+2), entangle him with nets (effectively a +2), get their shaman to Bless them (+1), and get their skald to sing an epic hymn (+1) just within core, or attack him with flaming oil (AoE is a reflex save for half). Saga Edition also solved it by making autofire an AoE, and thus let even stormtroopers hit consistently at the cost of lower damage and heavy ammo consumption (even Vader would be worn down by a group of ~50 men with rifles).

+6 is fairly irrelevant in settings without bounded accuracy, where creatures happily rock 40AC and similar shit. Saves are usually the same thing - or are you fine with bounded accuracy for those, but not for AC?

I recall a situation in Kingmaker where I met an enemy that I literally couldn't hit, and thinking "This guy could destroy my whole kingdom, single handedly. Why doesn't he do that?" Why even have armies? A single dude can mow down entire divisions of regular soldiery, invest in that instead.

 

[deuxhero]

WotC had already figured out how to avoid the issue of mobs that can't hit due to high defenses: Make defenses not universal, and allow stacking mods. Even in 3e, the kobolds can take our high level hero, surround him (+2), entangle him with nets (effectively a +2), get their shaman to Bless them (+1), and get their skald to sing an epic hymn (+1) just within core, or attack him with flaming oil (AoE is a reflex save for half). Saga Edition also solved it by making autofire an AoE, and thus let even stormtroopers hit consistently at the cost of lower damage and heavy ammo consumption (even Vader would be worn down by a group of ~50 men with rifles).

+6 is fairly irrelevant in settings without bounded accuracy, where creatures happily rock 40AC and similar shit. Saves are usually the same thing - or are you fine with bounded accuracy for those, but not for AC?

I recall a situation in Kingmaker where I met an enemy that I literally couldn't hit, and thinking "This guy could destroy my whole kingdom, single handedly. Why doesn't he do that?" Why even have armies? A single dude can mow down entire divisions of regular soldiery, invest in that instead.

What enemy was it? That +6 is just stuff level 1 mooks can do. There's way more options to buff and disable for higher level characters.

 

[Cryomancer]

as they literally cannot hit him

They can, in critical.

And a group surrendering a enemy gets lots of bonuses to hit.

- levels 5 to 10 signify national heroes that save entire regions,

This following the AWFUL tier system from 5e.

In BG2:SoA, when I was lv 8, I was clearing a fort from trolls. In Ravenloft : Strahd possession, I was visiting a "haunted church". In NWN1, I was solving a problem with intellect devours. In NWN2, I was seeking a way into Neverwinter. In Ravenloft : Stone Prophet, clearing a sewer from monsters. In Menzoberranzan, trying to get into Underdark. In Dark Sun : Wake of The Ravager, investigating what is happening after the Sorcerer King died, and yes, the game starts at lv 7 and goes up to 15.

have you ever gone from level 1 to level 5 in PnP DnD? The amount of adventures you had to have gon

That depends on the DM and campaign. pick any old school module, Scourge of the Slave Lords is a single module went to go from lv 7 to 11. I played with DM"s that after many sessions don't level up anyone in hte party and played with DM"s which in the beginning we are getting almost a level per session.

5E has horrifically bad power scaling because its shit mechanics (there's a defense cap everything naturally hits) mean the only thing it can do to make fights harder is give them bigger blobs of HP. That's why there's "epic" adventures at level 8

I'm not complaining. considering how much hp enemies and PC's get in high levels, I don't wanna any level past 12 in this.

I just wish that the game story was less epic. The level cap could continue the same because lv 12 allows you to test most cool spells and class features without having to deal with a hour long slog in each encounter oblivion style.

 

[thesecret1]

enemy was it? That +6 is just stuff level 1 mooks can do. There's way more options to buff and disable for higher level characters.

Been years since I played Kingmaker. I think it was some dragon-like thing in some cave? I defeated it in the end after reloading and doing some prepwork, but it was still a ridiculous situation - the enemy was kind of a shitter with my party easily tanking its hits, but just stood around him swinging their swords endlessly, unable to deal a single point of damage. It was ridiculous.

They can, in critical.

And a group surrendering a enemy gets lots of bonuses to hit.

See above for "bonuses" in systems without bounded accuracy. And critical hits are a poor consolation - it still means a guy just a couple above an enemy type can slaughter droves of them. Why are low-level monsters even an issue for anybody ever if they can just call for a nearby strongman to kill a couple hundred of them no problem? And why don't the stronger monsters obliterate entire towns on a regular basis? A 5% chance to get dealt some negligible damage isn't much of a deterrent

In BG2:SoA, when I was lv 8, I was clearing a fort from trolls. In Ravenloft : Strahd possession, I was visiting a "haunted church". In NWN1, I was solving a problem with intellect devours. In NWN2, I was seeking a way into Neverwinter. In Ravenloft : Stone Prophet, clearing a sewer from monsters. In Menzoberranzan, trying to get into Underdark. In Dark Sun : Wake of The Ravager, investigating what is happening after the Sorcerer King died, and yes, the game starts at lv 7 and goes up to 15

Those are video games, filled with trash mobs that inflate your EXP gains. Combat encounters that'd never fly at a PnP table due to how boring and pointless they are.

That depends on the DM and campaign. pick any old school module, Scourge of the Slave Lords is a single module went to go from lv 7 to 11. I played with DM"s that after many sessions don't level up anyone in hte party and played with DM"s which in the beginning we are getting almost a level per session.

We're talking 5e, and going from level 1 to 2 in a session or 2 to 3 is indeed easy. 3 to 4 is tougher, often taking 2 to 3 sessions at least, in my experience, and 4 to 5 even longer than that, players sometimes spending an IRL month being level 4. After such an amount of time and adventure, you should already be a known hero, having solved many a mystery and slain many a mighty foe.

 

[Cryomancer]

I think it was some dragon-like thing in some cave?

Is not that you can't hit him. Is just that the Crag Linnorm requires cold iron, his weaknesses to be defeated. This is very common not only in D&D/PF. In Daggerfall, if you don't have at least "silver" weapons, forget damaging any ghost, vampire and so on and yes, this applies if the pc becomes a vampire. In D&D 5e, you can ""kill"" ghosts with regular swords.

And why don't the stronger monsters obliterate entire towns on a regular basis?

In Menzoberranzar, they explain. Wealthy cities can afford good protection, but if a tinny poor village is raided by a drow party, no one will gonna send people to rescue the slaves. You are assuming that there are only powerful monsters but not powerful humans. In Dark Sun, every single one of the Sorcerer Kings is epic level defier/psionicist. Borys is a 30th level multiclass and he has lots of templars in "teen levels"(13+). Low level people who tries to create their cities to escape Sorcerer King Tyranny end up being destroyed quickly and everyone killed or enslaved if they are lucky to find a water source.

In old school D&D, was common that high level individuals get nobility titles and the duty to protect an area. This is somehow represented in stronghold quests in BG2:SoA. Some modules like Test of Warlords(lv 15+) is all about it. Getting lands and having to protect it and deal with all problems. And in Kingmaker, monsters do destroy the kingdom, many kingdoms got destroyed in Stolen Lands.

Those are video games, filled with trash mobs that inflate your EXP gains.

Yet the adventure path is similar to the P&P in adventures/level, second book = second chapter of the crpg, third book = third chapter.

Obviously playing the second book in P&P takes much more time than the second book in the CRPG as you have to do all the math, organize a group and so on. But playing "Varnhold Vanishing" in CRPG or in P&P should start at around lv 7 and go around lv 10.

having solved many a mystery and slain many a mighty foe.

A might foe like a ogre, a troll chieftain, a necromancer with a couple of low level undeads, not a ancient vampire, not a ancient dragon or similar creatures and a freaking Deity avatar should be far above this creatures.

If the game really needs to have an Avatar or Myrkul defeated, forging a alliance and investigating ways to weaken him before fighting him would be a better choice on how to deliver it. If when he appeared, he is so powerful that you can't do shit, then you run and try to find a way to weaken him. That would make much more sense.

 

[Rhobar121]

Bet you're missing Pillars of Eternity now.

Nope. Baizuo's Gate 3 is a much better game, despite the woke virus infecting it. I would say that I liked BG3 more than PF:WoTR but less than PF:KM.

What I really hate about BG3 is the epic low level adventure. I have adventured into the shadowfell, protected a city from hordes of enemies, solved the riddles of Shar and entered into the Astral Space to save a Aasimar, then destroyed a weird cultist tower and invaded a mindflayer colony and killed a powerful guy who become literally the avatar of Myrkul. This at lv 8. And is more epic than nwn - hotu. Other huge problem is the 5e ruleset.

Don't Mindlfayers, who reproduce by infesting humanoids with parasitic larva, canonically not have gentiles?

Yep. They should't even have a concept for gender. Same for family, paternity, maternity and so on.

You definitely don't want to play level 20 campaigns in 5e. Unfortunately, 5e stops working somewhere around level 14, everything after that is so broken that you can't create an interesting game. There is a reason why there is no official high-level campaign.

 

[thesecret1]

Is not that you can't hit him. Is just that the Crag Linnorm requires cold iron, his weaknesses to be defeated. This is very common not only in D&D/PF. In Daggerfall, if you don't have at least "silver" weapons, forget damaging any ghost, vampire and so on and yes, this applies if the pc becomes a vampire. In D&D 5e, you can ""kill"" ghosts with regular swords.

I don't remember if that was what the monster was. I do recall it being ghe high AC that caused all attacks to miss though. And it's not like 5e creatures don't have resistances and immunities to phisical damage

You are assuming that there are only powerful monsters but not powerful humans.

I assume they are extremely rare, otherwise there's a whole other bag of problems. Why levy peasants for war, for example, if a single level 10 dude can obliterate scores of them, if a level 10 dude isn't a rare thing? Shouldn't everyone instead invest in a couple ubermensch that render large scale warfare obsolete?

And if they are so common, why do any towns anywhere have problems with low level monsters? Just ask any dude at the pub to solve it.

A might foe like a ogre, a troll chieftain, a necromancer with a couple of low level undeads, not a ancient vampire, not a ancient dragon or similar creatures and a freaking Deity avatar should be far above this creatures

I'd say that has more to do with bestiary and encounter design than with AC

 

[Cryomancer]

You definitely don't want to play level 20 campaigns in 5e. Unfortunately, 5e stops working somewhere around level 14, everything after that is so broken that you can't create an interesting game. There is a reason why there is no official high-level campaign.

Agreed. Also, BG3 has the Ilithid powers, allowing you to do stuff like becoming a displacer beast, create blackholes, free counterspell if the spell is lower or equal your proficiency bonus( https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Illithid_Powers ) which essentially makes your lv 12 charname much stronger than a lv 12 npc. Lv 12 is similar to the end game of Menzoberranzan, Ravenloft : Strahd possession/Stone prophet.

And it's not like 5e creatures don't have resistances and immunities to phisical damage

To a much less extent than in 2E. And enemies have much less dangerous nasty abilities.

Most mid level undead could inflict negative levels for eg.

Why levy peasants for war, for example, if a single level 10 dude can obliterate scores of them, if a level 10 dude isn't a rare thing?

A guy like Simo Hayha by being extremely good with aiming and stealth, managed to kill over 500 enemy invasors. Soviets only managed to injure him. In 2e, a random guy which never picked a rifle would be only 30% less likely to hit than a max level sharpshooter like Simo Hayha. As for the rarety, rarety is relative.

And lets look to a situation in 2E, where a lv 12 mage fights a army of 500 lv 0 commoners. HE would have 9(d4~2.5)+3 hit points, in 2E, mage getting even +1 con mod is very rare, so he will probably have around 25 hit points(34 if he has 15 con). Assume that he has amazing magical gear and zero AC. Also is buffed by stoneskin and mirror image to make him as tanky as possible. The mage starting the battle casting cloudkill, which is the best spell to deal with hordes of nobodies, would kill lots of them but if they win the initiative, only assuming that only those who hit 20 hits the mage. 25 of them with throwable spears or bows will hit the mage. That is more than enough to dispel all mirror images and stonekin "layers" and kill him.

And with poisoned arrows, even a low level assassin could take care of a high(14+) level mage if he is unprepared/distracted. Poison in 2E is much more lethal than in 5E. And note that in 2e, the mage can't just chose what spells to learn, he needs to find scrolls and pass a check to learn and in some settings like Dark Sun, scrolls are incredible rare. Unless we are talking about Glantri, in Mystara or other diehard magocracy, is very unlikely that the mage will have such amazing spells and zero ac.

I'd say that has more to do with bestiary and encounter design than with AC

I don't think that the encounter design on BG3 is bad.

 

[Serus]

BTW Halsin is THE CRINGE this whole game. An archdruid being zoophiliac bisexual hunk dude with tree-like arms and 10 str score is about as likely as pope being an openly gay black jew with rainbow coloured hair.

I'm betting you a 100 Euros that the next Pope will be exactly that.

Nah. Not the next. But one along the line, that's is very possible. Fortunately the Church has a long tradition of anti-popes. And if all goes wrong a little schism never did anyone any harm, right? BTW, some protestant churches, if they had a pope, he would be like one you described, already today.

 

[thesecret1]

And lets look to a situation in 5E, where a lv 12 mage fights a army of 500 lv 0 commoners. HE would have 9(d4~2.5)+3 hit points, in 2E, mage getting even +1 con mod is very rare, so he will probably have around 25 hit points(34 if he has 15 con). Assume that he has amazing magical gear and zero AC. Also is buffed by stoneskin and mirror image to make him as tanky as possible. The mage starting the battle casting cloudkill, which is the best spell to deal with hordes of nobodies, would kill lots of them but if they win the initiative, only assuming that only those who hit 20 hits the mage. 25 of them with throwable spears or bows will hit the mage. That is more than enough to dispel all mirror images and stonekin "layers" and kill him.

I'm not familiar with 2e - does it have bounded accuracy or not? A 5e wizard may have more HP, but can generally also be hit more often (don't really know about level 0s - that's a bit of an extreme gap given that a level 12 in 5e is something akin to a demigod, and likely shouldn't even exist in more grounded settings)

 

[jaekl]

All I know for sure is that Baldur's Gate 3 is my mortal enemy and it uses 5th edition, so 5th edition is therefore irredeemable garbage and I stand firm with Cryomancer in this conflict.

 

[zapotec]

And lets look to a situation in 5E, where a lv 12 mage fights a army of 500 lv 0 commoners. HE would have 9(d4~2.5)+3 hit points, in 2E, mage getting even +1 con mod is very rare, so he will probably have around 25 hit points(34 if he has 15 con). Assume that he has amazing magical gear and zero AC. Also is buffed by stoneskin and mirror image to make him as tanky as possible. The mage starting the battle casting cloudkill, which is the best spell to deal with hordes of nobodies, would kill lots of them but if they win the initiative, only assuming that only those who hit 20 hits the mage. 25 of them with throwable spears or bows will hit the mage. That is more than enough to dispel all mirror images and stonekin "layers" and kill him.

I'm not familiar with 2e - does it have bounded accuracy or not? A 5e wizard may have more HP, but can generally also be hit more often (don't really know about level 0s - that's a bit of an extreme gap given that a level 12 in 5e is something akin to a demigod, and likely shouldn't even exist in more grounded settings)

In the tabletop the maximum AC you could reach was -10, with some monsters being an exception.

 

[Cryomancer]

does it have bounded accuracy or no

No, doesn't have. A lv 0 commoner needs to roll 20 to hit ac0 in 2e. A lv 20 fighter needs to roll 1 to hit the same ac0.

a level 12 in 5e is something akin to a demigod

That is one of the many 5e problems. There are settings where the overall level is low and settings where the overall level is high in 2e. 5E assumed that D&D is only low level sword coast adventuring. When D&D is much more than it. Among the higher ranks Red Wizards of Thay, high and epic level is not uncommon.

5e wizard may have more HP, but can generally also be hit more often

That depends on which magical gear and spell scrolls which the 2E mage found.


But since this thread is about cringe, I remember when I watched a 5e Dark Sun stream.

• Pronouns in character sheet
• They invented a democratic city state in Athas ruled by a lesbian woman
• Got a sandship at lv 1
• Killed 7 templars also at lv 1. Templars aren't the elite of the sorcerer kings which trained the entire life, are glorified unskilled commoners.
• Their mage was spamming firebolt everywhere. Magic is hated in Athas, disguising spells as psionics and not using flashy spells is a huge part of being a mage in athas
• They decided to travel in sandship to try to free slaves from a nearby city state without worrying about water supply or food.

IDK what happened cuz I stopped watching this bs. I imagine that if Larian makes a game in Athas, will be that way.

 

[Reinhardt]

last pages are cringe...

 

[Cryomancer]

I forgot to tell, but the fuckable mindflayer, is the guy protecting you from the transformation inside the artifact and the waifu which you created in the game is him

Other thing very cringe. 152 GB for this dating sim.150 GB are probably mo captured 4k Astarion, Bear and Mindflayer sex scenes.

 

[Rhobar121]

I forgot to tell, but the fuckable mindflayer, is the guy protecting you from the transformation inside the artifact and the waifu which you created in the game is him

Other thing very cringe. 152 GB for this dating sim.150 GB are probably mo captured 4k Astarion, Bear and Mindflayer sex scenes.

Well, 150GB was the standard for AAA games years ago. Textures and sound files have their weight, and thanks to the availability of high-speed Internet, the size of the game is no longer an important issue. Unless you live in a 3rd world country like the USA.

 

[Reinhardt]

I forgot to tell, but the fuckable mindflayer, is the guy protecting you from the transformation inside the artifact and the waifu which you created in the game is him

Other thing very cringe. 152 GB for this dating sim.150 GB are probably mo captured 4k Astarion, Bear and Mindflayer sex scenes.

Well, 150GB was the standard for AAA games years ago. Textures and sound files have their weight, and thanks to the availability of high-speed Internet, the size of the game is no longer an important issue. Unless you live in a 3rd world country like the USA.

there is no game in existence worthy of 150gb disk space. especially aaaaaaaaaaa.

 

[Cryomancer]

150GB was the standard for AAA games years ago

Cyberpunk 2077 + DLC = 77 GB, the DLC is 20 GB
Elden Ring = 48 GB

I can't post more AAA games cuz this are the only two which I played. But Baizuo's Gate 3 takes 3x more space than Elden Ring. Hogwarts Legacy I will only buy after a massive discount but they are saying that it requires 85 GB

 

[Cryomancer]

Anyway, for a Bhaalspawn 2.0 augmented by a tadpole + Netherese magic, takes multiple days to become able to cast raise dead. A random chick in Baldur's Gate city not only manages to cast it with no problem but also creates 7 undeads which is more than a fully dedicated necromancer at lv cap with all gear and illithid enhancements

Not even Karsus in her age would be able to do it...

 

[Reinhardt]

Anyway, for a Bhaalspawn 2.0 augmented by a tadpole + Netherese magic, takes multiple days to become able to cast raise dead. A random chick in Baldur's Gate city not only manages to cast it with no problem but also creates 7 undeads which is more than a fully dedicated necromancer at lv cap with all gear and illithid enhancements

Not even Karsus in her age would be able to do it...

wommynz are just better at dress-wearing. unlike "wizzurdz" they are natural.

 

[Chippy]

Is it a sign of the time and the fact that I might have been infected with the brain disease that I see a pre-pubescent boy here wearing a wig?. Or is that actually what I'm supposed to be looking at?.

 

[The Jester]

Is it a sign of the time and the fact that I might have been infected with the brain disease that I see a pre-pubescent boy here wearing a wig?. Or is that actually what I'm supposed to be looking at?.

The game uses a limited pool of NPC faces and tries to trick the player with retarded haircuts and beards.

 

[Chippy]

Is it a sign of the time and the fact that I might have been infected with the brain disease that I see a pre-pubescent boy here wearing a wig?. Or is that actually what I'm supposed to be looking at?.

The game uses a limited pool of NPC faces and tries to trick the player with retarded haircuts and beards.

That the excuse they're giving the police these days is it?.

 

[Gerrard]

Taking bets how many of those guys have had vasectomies.

 

[VerSacrum]

Taking bets how many of those guys have had vasectomies.

Definitely way too many niggers in this game
The amount of black dwarves/elves is especially bizarre