Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Tyranicon]

He also explains that high-level content is extremely problematic because high-level spells give an incredible amount of freedom and are hard to implement in a videogame adaptation.

I feel like that's a bit of a copout unless he thinks they absolutely need to translate every spell from PnP exactly as it is. If they managed to implement Wish (reasonably well) 20 years ago, why can't it be done now?

Its simple, you only allow the uses list directly in the spell + uses listed in other spells conditions (like something that can only be reversed by a Wish spell.).

Is wish going to be in the final version of BG3? At the very least, I'd like to see a utility version of it (to cast other spells).

 

[Tyranicon]

D&D becomes relatively pointless after 10-12th level anyway, so I wouldn't encourage going beyond that. It's not only more work to introduce the ridiculously overpowered spells, they also make a lot of the content (that is also hard to make) trivial. Just have some self-control, Larian. Stick as closely to the rules as possible, don't try to make it more flashy than it needs to be, and it's going to be ok.

I honestly have way more fun at tier 4 or whatever they call it. Higher level characters are awesome if you enjoy working and testing the game's mechanics. It's just that most DMs can't handle their precious BBEG dying in half a round because they can't balance for shit.

 

[Thonius]

60 USD for the full game. You just have to make an informed choice whether you have enough confidence in the game to get it while it's in EA.

No, it's preorder with no refunds. Wake up.
You pay 60 to pre order game and beta test it. And if you discover you don't like it - too late bozo!

Ergo the 'make informed choice' part. It's still a gamble, but it's up to you to decide whether you want to make it or not. No point in having buyer's remorse if you acknowledged the risk of it turning out shitty.

How the fuck you make informed choice if games intro part including chargen is way more then 2 hours. Buyers remorse? What? My copy fell out of truck... nothing to see here.
Once again I would like to thank all buyers of BG3 for you beta testing. I'll buy only final patched product only, thank you!
I know it may come of as hypocritical seeing as I like Owlcats games (we all know their rep), but I bought DOS1 and DOS2 and both times regretted.

 

[Lacrymas]

You can't win with high level play, though. It's either balanced to a T (necessitating a lot of limitations to certain spells) and the players feel like their overpowered spells are actually garbage and too limited and don't feel any more different than at low levels, or you destroy everything in a single round, making the content trivial and the characters anime-tier. There's a reason why there are like 2 official modules that go beyond lvl 10, and one of them is trash.

What also irks me about Larian is how they are trying to "improve" on a tested system. Why on earth would they think making everything a bonus action is a good idea? People have years of experience tweaking this system, they aren't going to be able to radically improve it in order for such gigantic changes to be justifiable.

 

[Lambach]

Is wish going to be in the final version of BG3?

Probably not, unless it's a McGuffin of some sort. It is a 9th level spell, the level cap will not let you learn it, and they probably won't bother with such a potentially complex spell for a one-off cast through a Scroll or some other item.

 

[Thonius]

It's a PC game. Less then 20 lvl's - gay. They can always tweak rules or something. Kill companions, debuff you, curse you whatever.

 

[Zurat-Yarkuch]

the cap is probably in the level 12 area..

I'm curious about this part. I know the cap was initially supposed to be 10, but I think I've read somewhere Sven confirmed that they've increased it. Anyone have any info on this?

At 4:14.

He (lead systems designer) basically says that the level cap is not set in stone, and that they are going to decide according to how much content will actually be in the game. He also explains that high-level content is extremely problematic because high-level spells give an incredible amount of freedom and are hard to implement in a videogame adaptation.

Just popped into this thread and took a quick look at the video. Man, I love the designs for the goblins. There small but stocky enough to not look like total pushovers. That way you don't feel like you are killing small sickly children, like in Neverwinter Nights 2 with their goblin design.

I'm going to be a half-orc barbarian, possibly evil. It would be fun to be a strong idiot going around just being a total ass to everyone. What would make it perfect is if they did the whole retard dialogue if you dump your intelligence low enough like in the Neverwinter Nights campaign.

Of course I'll wait until the game is released and on sale at 50% off or something. I've still got Kingmaker to play through.

 

[Sharpedge]

Joseph Stalin what is the possibility that

Spoiler

Loulaum is the "evil enemy" behind all of this? He is both a Netherese wizard and an Illithid, which would explain the fact that the hag claims that there is Netherese shadow magic protecting the tadpole.

 

[Tyranicon]

You can't win with high level play, though. It's either balanced to a T (necessitating a lot of limitations to certain spells) and the players feel like their overpowered spells are actually garbage and too limited and don't feel any more different than at low levels, or you destroy everything in a single round, making the content trivial and the characters anime-tier. There's a reason why there are like 2 official modules that go beyond lvl 10, and one of them is trash.

What also irks me about Larian is how they are trying to "improve" on a tested system. Why on earth would they think making everything a bonus action is a good idea? People have years of experience tweaking this system, they aren't going to be able to radically improve it in order for such gigantic changes to be justifiable.

While 5e is not balanced in any sense of the word, I feel like higher level play, at least in combat, is relatively decent and fair. Yes, full casters are still practically gods that can't really die, and full martial classes are basically just another swordbot, but the power difference is less than in previous editions (or Pathfinder).

As for everything dying in a single round, DMs need to realize that higher level characters are basically demi-gods that can wipe their ass with entire standing armies. So battles need to be layered, and BBEGs need to have spells/plans prepared with a healthy amount of legendary actions.

 

[Tyranicon]

Is wish going to be in the final version of BG3?

Probably not, unless it's a McGuffin of some sort. It is a 9th level spell, the level cap will not let you learn it, and they probably won't bother with such a potentially complex spell for a one-off cast through a Scroll or some other item.

What's the level cap on the final version of the game?

 

[BarbequeMasta]

But if I may ask? Where is the story? So far, I'm just roaming around, checking different points of interest and find random NPCs that offer me a cure for my tadpole. The whole game world seems to be constructed around my very special problem which makes it all very gamey. No feel for scope or scale.

It's Larian theme park style, it's a hate or love it kind of thing based on people I spoke too.
I myself hate it but in DOS2 in single player. The one time I played with a couple of friends I found it more enjoyable, but anything is fun with good friends and a few drinks I guess.

 

[Lambach]

It's a PC game. Less then 20 lvl's - gay. They can always tweak rules or something. Kill companions, debuff you, curse you whatever.

Counterpoint: it's a good idea to cap it earlier precisely because it's a PC game. Vidya games have lots and lots of combat. At high levels, you have two options in regards to this: either keep it Lore-friendly and pit the player against lower-level trash mobs in encounters that can be resolved with a single spell, or break immersion and have the player fight hordes of powerful enemies that are supposed to be extremely rare, but are spawning in ludicrous numbers for the purpose of maintaining a challenge.

I'm always reminded of other DnD adaptations that go to these high levels, e.g. Throne of Bhaal, NWN 2 (and especially MoTB) and the like, in which I never even bother casting the fabled "Gate" spell that summons a goddamn Pit Fiend, the top dog of the Baatezu hierarchy, because by the time I get the spell, I'm facing tons of enemies of similar (or greater) power already and am butchering them by the truckload.

 

[Tyranicon]

It's a PC game. Less then 20 lvl's - gay. They can always tweak rules or something. Kill companions, debuff you, curse you whatever.

Counterpoint: it's a good idea to cap it earlier precisely because it's a PC game. Vidya games have lots and lots of combat. At high levels, you have two options in regards to this: either keep it Lore-friendly and pit the player against lower-level trash mobs in encounters that can be resolved with a single spell, or break immersion and have the player fight hordes of powerful enemies that are supposed to be extremely rare, but are spawning in ludicrous numbers for the purpose of maintaining a challenge.

I'm always reminded of other DnD adaptations that go to these high levels, e.g. Throne of Bhaal, NWN 2 (and especially MoTB) and the like, in which I never even bother casting the fabled "Gate" spell that summons a goddamn Pit Fiend, the top dog of the Baatezu hierarchy, because by the time I get the spell, I'm facing tons of enemies of similar (or greater) power already and are butchering them by the truckload.

My dream version of BG3 would have a custom combat scenario mode where you can create maps, drop in enemies and have the full 20 levels. But the amount of work that would take means this is highly unlikely.

 

[Storyfag]

So this is the power of potato.

I shall drink your soul for that!

 

[Storyfag]

He also explains that high-level content is extremely problematic because high-level spells give an incredible amount of freedom and are hard to implement in a videogame adaptation.

I feel like that's a bit of a copout unless he thinks they absolutely need to translate every spell from PnP exactly as it is. If they managed to implement Wish (reasonably well) 20 years ago, why can't it be done now?

Still, nobody ever properly implemented Teleport. Not even Owlcat, for whom it would made most sense.

 

[Shinros]

I dunno I feel like I'd get pissed if they're profiting off me.

Or maybe I shouldn't broaden the anger.

Edit: As an Asian, every and then I'll get the SJW ally, and all they do is piss me off because they're acting like I can't handle things by myself, I can't fight on my own. It's like patronizing. Not just projection but "I'm better than you" (you know, "American Exceptionalism?")

Seriously. I already have anger issues. You think I can't take care of myself? Hell I'ma beat yo ass first. Then I'll beat up the racist and make him stick his schlong in your asscrack. Of course provocative photos for means of blackmail.

Yeah... I have a problem with being helped without asking for it.

For a time it did make me angry. Since I thought that a lot people felt the same way. But after talking with people about the subject, from white, black, asian, male and female. I realised most people aren't insane. These people just scream the loudest.

Think about it, they are holding up our skin-tones like its some new addition. Failing to realise that skin-tones were already in games like baldur's gate and neverwinter's night.

Back then no one cared, it was a simple addition, now? In the age of social media, its all about the likes, thumbs up etc. As I said narcissim. They all have it. And you know the best part? All the normal people I've talked to say these people are actually racist. They're projecting. Normies aren't the ones who think of orcs and drow as black people. It tells you a lot about a person if they think that way.

Hence why I no longer get worked up. You can see it in how people vote. Look at the Uk and hopefully the Us in november.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

One of my bigger pet peeves with high level play is that not enough time ever passes to warrant it. Going from an apprentice mage to an archmage in the span of a year or two is dumb

Canonically, Abdel Adrian still lived well over 100 years after BG2 finished. Looking at it retrospectively, it really could have been spread out over a longer period.

 

[Storyfag]

D&D becomes relatively pointless after 10-12th level anyway

I shall drink your soul too!

 

[Voids]

It's a PC game. Less then 20 lvl's - gay. They can always tweak rules or something. Kill companions, debuff you, curse you whatever.

Counterpoint: it's a good idea to cap it earlier precisely because it's a PC game. Vidya games have lots and lots of combat. At high levels, you have two options in regards to this: either keep it Lore-friendly and pit the player against lower-level trash mobs in encounters that can be resolved with a single spell, or break immersion and have the player fight hordes of powerful enemies that are supposed to be extremely rare, but are spawning in ludicrous numbers for the purpose of maintaining a challenge.

I'm always reminded of other DnD adaptations that go to these high levels, e.g. Throne of Bhaal, NWN 2 (and especially MoTB) and the like, in which I never even bother casting the fabled "Gate" spell that summons a goddamn Pit Fiend, the top dog of the Baatezu hierarchy, because by the time I get the spell, I'm facing tons of enemies of similar (or greater) power already and are butchering them by the truckload.

My dream version of BG3 would have a custom combat scenario mode where you can create maps, drop in enemies and have the full 20 levels. But the amount of work that would take means this is highly unlikely.

If you poke around in multiplayer you'll see that there's a setting for parties that are level 25+. Might be a holdover from DOS2 though... then again I've read that the cap is around 21 in DOS2.

 

[Tyranicon]

One of my bigger pet peeves with high level play is that not enough time ever passes to warrant it. Going from an apprentice mage to an archmage in the span of a year or two is dumb

Canonically, Abdel Adrian still lived well over 100 years after BG2 finished. Looking at it retrospectively, it really could have been spread out over a longer period.

Sometimes you've got to suspend your disbelief. Like how elves are old as shit and still stupid as rocks. If your 400-year-old high elf wizard is on the same level as a 21 year-old human, then someone spent 300 of those years smoking elf weed.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Sometimes you've got to suspend your disbelief.

I don't see why we have to though. There's nothing wrong with writing a story that spans a longer time period and allows for more (organic) character growth as a result.

 

[Atlantico]

D&D becomes relatively pointless after 10-12th level anyway, so I wouldn't encourage going beyond that.

That's true, D&D is not WoW or Diablo. Levels are more meaningful in D&D, and at least in P&P the first 1-6 levels are the most fun and interesting to play. BG1 had the right idea there.

I had no issues at all.

Go figure, you're a linuxfag. That's one issue right there.

People who enjoy something are far less likely to leave a review or comment.

Cope, bitch.

Keep propping up a European product, tho. Thanks, cuck!

 

[Zurat-Yarkuch]

Canonically, Abdel Adrian still lived well over 100 years after BG2 finished.

Oh god, they made the character from those awful tie-in novels canon? Jesus christ, did anyone at Wizards of the Coast read that garbage before approving that?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Canonically, Abdel Adrian still lived well over 100 years after BG2 finished.

Oh god, they made the character from those awful tie-in novels canon? Jesus christ, did anyone at Wizards of the Coast read that garbage before approving that?

Abdel Adrian is 100% canon, although it's arguable as to whether he's actually Gorion's ward or not. I'm not sure if the books themselves are canon. But Murder in Baldur's Gate definitely is.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Murder_in_Baldur's_Gate

 

[Thonius]

Solution - KOS.