Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

I'm not sure it would be practical with Larian's design principles to add a class that has such an explicit connection to lore. They would want to write a bunch of dialogue related to the character being from Thay.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I'm not sure it would be practical with Larian's design principles to add a class that has such an explicit connection to lore. They would want to write a bunch of dialogue related to the character being from Thay.

Yeah, I mentioned with Astarion that he's a very typical Vampire Spawn. Seems like every character they write is somewhat of an archetype in part, and has a requisite loredump or a ton of dialog about whatever archetype they represent. None of their companions are just Joe the elf who happens to be a druid.

It's not something you really notice unless you already know the lore and didn't need it explained to you though. And it's a lot better than their usual writing imo.

 

[Spectacle]

I'm not sure it would be practical with Larian's design principles to add a class that has such an explicit connection to lore. They would want to write a bunch of dialogue related to the character being from Thay.

They're also not going to add a class that doesn't have 5E rules.

 

[Cryomancer]

You actually meet quite a few Red Wizards in Mask of the Betrayer, and one of your companions is a Red Wizard. You also ran around in the Red Wizard Conjuration academy. It made sense for NWN2 to have a Red Wizard PrC.

Yep. But you can become one in the main campaign. That is nonsensical. But I still love that I can play NWN2 as one. Red Wizards of thay in sense that they have two prohibited school but more power with their main school are akin to Thassilonian specialists from Pathfinder.

3e/pf arcane trickster

Arcane trickster exists in 5E as a rogue subclass http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/rogue:arcane-trickster

Red Wizard in 5E would have to introduce the concept of banned schools, and give more powerful than average abilities to make up for that. That's extremely difficult to work given how utterly fucked 5E's balance for wizard specializations (and in general) is, and how Sorcerer already has to deal with extremely limited spells known for no comparative gain over Wizard.

Yep. I said that I would love to see red wizards but I know that the chances of seeing it are close to ZERO.

But some people homebrewed it for 5E > https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HyOalwCXM

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?546617-Wizard-Archetype-Red-Wizard-of-Thay

The unique awful thing of that subclass port to 5E is the rank of Zulkir to lv 14 Red Wizards. Most Zulkirs of the red wizards are epic level characters. Szass Tam is lv 29 in 3E and 2E. PC's at lv 14 should be at best a Draxkir of Thay which is NOT weak. Only because your PC is not in the top 7 strongest wizards in a diehard magocracy, doesn't means that he is weak. Nishkir is probably the highest rank of red wizard which would go all arond the world adventuring.

They're also not going to add a class that doesn't have 5E rules.

They can homebrew. Many prestige classes in 3.5E got ported into pure classes in 5E.

• 5E pale master https://www.5esrd.com/classes/3rd-p...nment/the-pale-master/#Creating_a_Pale_Master
• 5E eldritch knight http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/fighter:eldritch-knight
• 5E arcane trickster http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/rogue:arcane-trickster

All of this classes was prestige classes back in 3.5E and now are a new class, a fighter subclass and a rogue subclass.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

wizards are gay

 

[underground nymph]

wizards are gay

And not because of robes alone.

 

[Cryomancer]

wizards are gay

Why you say that? Did some wizard tested enchantment magic on you and you did things that you regret to this day?

 

[Swen]

wizards are gay

Wizards of the coast are actually gay

 

[Yosharian]

Fighter 2 dip on a Wizard is really not that good

 

[Lagole Gon]

Isn't it a photo taken of one of the devs' wife/girlfriend?

Ajantis - Ray Muzyka
Coran - Greg Zeschuk
Imoen - wife of Dean Andersen ( Bioware artist)
Garrick - Cameron Tofer (Bioware, Beamdog)

I hope you still needed that knowledge. Almost 2 years later. You're welcome.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Leave it to Victor to pose a question about bringing any prior class to the game and then deciding on wizards who REALLY like wearing red.

Besides that, PrCs are gay. Even if they weren't, basically the only classes that aren't really represented in BG3 as base classes or subclasses are evil specialty classes like Blackguard or 4Es wonderful additions like Warlord.

 

[Larianshill]

I want warlords back, badly.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Arcane trickster exists in 5E as a rogue subclass http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/rogue:arcane-trickster

Ya but PF arcane trickster is a full blaster caster whereas 5e arcane trickster is a 1/3rd caster gish rogue.

 

[Cryomancer]

wizards who REALLY like wearing red.

No, the red garments is only one thing about Red Wizards of Thay. They are close to Thassilonian specialists from Pathfinder(ie - 2 prohibited schools and a greater power due greater specialziation). Zulkir(D&D) and the Rune Lords(pf) are very similar. And guess what, I have finished PF:KM as a(dhampir - mod) Thassilonian necromancer in UNFAIR, without using the cheesy Pun Pun builds. With a pure RP build.

basically the only classes that aren't really represented in BG3 as base classes or subclasses are evil specialty classes like Blackguard or 4Es wonderful additions like Warlord.

Honestly, Solasta has way more interesting subclasses. Obviously BG3 is in Early Access, we don't know which classes will be in final game. I wish for more stuff outside of PHB. Even if they come as DLC.

I want warlords back, badly.

I tried to find a warlord mod for nwn1/2 and bf1/2 but din't found. I mean, I can find really crazy relative obscure classes like Dread Necromancer but seems like nobody is coding mods for martial classes. Warlord is probably one of the most popular classes of 4E.

Ya but PF arcane trickster is a full blaster caster whereas 5e arcane trickster is a 1/3rd caster gish rogue.

Yep. I understand perfectly.

 

[mediocrepoet]

wizards who REALLY like wearing red.

No, the red garments is only one thing about Red Wizards of Thay. They are close to Thassilonian specialists from Pathfinder(ie - 2 prohibited schools and a greater power due greater specialziation). Zulkir(D&D) and the Rune Lords(pf) are very similar. And guess what, I have finished PF:KM as a(dhampir - mod) Thassilonian necromancer in UNFAIR, without using the cheesy Pun Pun builds. With a pure RP build.

basically the only classes that aren't really represented in BG3 as base classes or subclasses are evil specialty classes like Blackguard or 4Es wonderful additions like Warlord.

Honestly, Solasta has way more interesting subclasses. Obviously BG3 is in Early Access, we don't know which classes will be in final game. I wish for more stuff outside of PHB. Even if they come as DLC.

I want warlords back, badly.

I tried to find a warlord mod for nwn1/2 and bf1/2 but din't found. I mean, I can find really crazy relative obscure classes like Dread Necromancer but seems like nobody is coding mods for martial classes. Warlord is probably one of the most popular classes of 4E.

Ya but PF arcane trickster is a full blaster caster whereas 5e arcane trickster is a 1/3rd caster gish rogue.

Yep. I understand perfectly.

I know what the Red Wizards are. However, under 5E mechanics, you're looking at a wizard wearing a red robe. I know that you wish the game was pretty much anything other than 5E, but it's not. And Larian already stated that they're going with PHB which is already a lot, so... I don't know. It's like going into a Chinese restaurant and then complaining about how there's no pizza because you love pizza so much.

 

[Cryomancer]

I know what the Red Wizards are. However, under 5E mechanics, you're looking at a wizard wearing a red robe. I know that you wish the game was pretty much anything other than 5E, but it's not. And Larian already stated that they're going with PHB which is already a lot, so... I don't know. It's like going into a Chinese restaurant and then complaining about how there's no pizza because you love pizza so much.

As I've said, the chances of seeing Red Wizards are close to zero even considering modders. I'm not complaining, just mentioned it cuz everyone was talking about other stuff and I wanted to bring the discussion back to BG3 since everyone was talking about tranni and similar stuff.

PS : Anything over 5E, 4E and pf2e.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

wizards are gay

Why you say that? Did some wizard tested enchantment magic on you and you did things that you regret to this day?

Every. Time.

 

[mediocrepoet]

wizards are gay

Why you say that? Did some wizard tested enchantment magic on you and you did things that you regret to this day?

Every. Time.

Guess you cracked the code of the Dark Lord of Neebletoad and his obsession with wizards.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

As I've said, the chances of seeing Red Wizards are close to zero even considering modders.

Eh. I wouldn't be so sure.

BG1&2 were full of them. Edwin was one.

https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Red_Wizards_of_Thay

You just didn't have an actual red wizard kit (and you didn't need one).

So, you may see them. Just not as a completely unnecessary class that adds nothing to the game, but that Owlcat fans can coom over because muh numbers, muh spreadsheet.

 

[Cael]

You actually meet quite a few Red Wizards in Mask of the Betrayer, and one of your companions is a Red Wizard. You also ran around in the Red Wizard Conjuration academy. It made sense for NWN2 to have a Red Wizard PrC.

Yep. But you can become one in the main campaign. That is nonsensical. But I still love that I can play NWN2 as one. Red Wizards of thay in sense that they have two prohibited school but more power with their main school are akin to Thassilonian specialists from Pathfinder.

That is retarded. The PrC was introduced in Mask of the Betrayer. It was not in the original.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Guess you cracked the code of the Dark Lord of Neebletoad and his obsession with wizards.

I mean the BG series has historically taken the RIGHT AND PROPER stance that pure wizards are evil. Xzar, Edwin, Irenicus, the gnome illusionist in the circus, basically all the cowled wizards, thousands of random ass "Wizard doing what he shouldn't" side quests and encounters, etc. Not to mention that one wizard building a golem specifically to keep that one poor fucker away from getting a crumb of pussy. If someone's waving their arms around and talking about a cactus pool cue imperium you know they're up to no good.

 

[Cryomancer]

You just didn't have an actual red wizard kit (and you didn't need one).

So, you may see them. Just not as a completely unnecessary class that adds nothing to the game, but that Owlcat fans can coom over because muh numbers, muh spreadsheet.

I disagree that they are a complete unnecessary class. If you remove all """unnecessary"""" classes, you will end up with fighter/cleric/mage alone and nothing else. Don't get me wrong, I love games like Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager and ravenloft : strahd possession/stone prophet. But this games would be better if I could get dozens of "kits" to chose from. And is not as if subclasses in Pathfinder games only affects numbers and spreadsheets. A Cruoromancer(Blood Necromancer - dhampir only class), a Elemental Specialist and a Exploiter Wizard aren't the same only because all are "wizards"...

Knights of the Chalice 1 has only 3 classes. Mage/Cleric/Fighter. I finished it, loved it but don't see much replayability in that game. Now, KoTC2 seems way better in this regard. I don't see any downside of implementing more options.

I mean the BG series has historically taken the RIGHT AND PROPER stance that pure wizards are evil. Xzar, Edwin, Irenicus, the gnome illusionist in the circus, basically all the cowled wizards, thousands of random ass "Wizard doing what he shouldn't" side quests and encounters, etc. Not to mention that one wizard building a golem specifically to keep that one poor fucker away from getting a crumb of pussy. If someone's waving their arms around and talking about a cactus pool cue imperium you know they're up to no good.

Nope. There are some neutral mages in Baldur's Gate like Xan and some are even good like Dynaheir and Mordaine. Sure, most mages are evil but is not like Conan, where there are a total of ZERO good magic users in the entire series.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I mean the BG series has historically taken the RIGHT AND PROPER stance that pure wizards are evil. Xzar, Edwin, Irenicus, the gnome illusionist in the circus, basically all the cowled wizards, thousands of random ass "Wizard doing what he shouldn't" side quests and encounters, etc. Not to mention that one wizard building a golem specifically to keep that one poor fucker away from getting a crumb of pussy. If someone's waving their arms around and talking about a cactus pool cue imperium you know they're up to no good.

Nope. There are some neutral mages in Baldur's Gate like Xan and some are even good like Dynaheir and Mordaine. Sure, most mages are evil but is not like Conan, where there are a total of ZERO good magic users in the entire series.

I believe you'll find that Dynaheir and Mordaine are women, which are naturally evil creatures capable of masking their alignment so that they can better infiltrate society and use their pussy magicks for their own nefarious purposes. Hell, if you're thinking clearly you'll even see Dynaheir is taking advantage of a poor mentally disabled man and using him a servant despite her supposed "Lawful good" alignment! Xan initially seems like more of a problem, but you have to remember that "He" is an elf and practically a woman already. Look at his long flowing hair, his wrists so limp he can't even hold them up while casting a spell in his portrait. No, Meredoth. All pure wizards are evil in Baldur's Gate. Even lawful good paladin Keldorn makes exceptions for wizards, essentially saying "While I don't approve of busting into someone's house and murdering him in cold blood, he IS a cowled wizard".

 

[mediocrepoet]

You just didn't have an actual red wizard kit (and you didn't need one).

So, you may see them. Just not as a completely unnecessary class that adds nothing to the game, but that Owlcat fans can coom over because muh numbers, muh spreadsheet.

I disagree that they are a complete unnecessary class. If you remove all """unnecessary"""" classes, you will end up with fighter/cleric/mage alone and nothing else. Don't get me wrong, I love games like Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager and ravenloft : strahd possession/stone prophet. But this games would be better if I could get dozens of "kits" to chose from. And is not as if subclasses in Pathfinder games only affects numbers and spreadsheets. A Cruoromancer(Blood Necromancer - dhampir only class), a Elemental Specialist and a Exploiter Wizard aren't the same only because all are "wizards"...

Knights of the Chalice 1 has only 3 classes. Mage/Cleric/Fighter. I finished it, loved it but don't see much replayability in that game. Now, KoTC2 seems way better in this regard. I don't see any downside of implementing more options.

You can actually cover a lot of ground on most concepts just by having the 4 core classes (fighter, mage, cleric, thief) and enabling multiclassing, especially if it's 3E style multiclassing where you can pick how much of each class to mix in, e.g. Paladin = fighter/cleric.

The problem is that PrCs started muddying the waters and it became a parody in Pathfinder 1E where they made a class for not only every concept you might think of, but also every multiclass combination you can think of, including multiclasses in different proportions (e.g. full caster, half caster, dip caster). That stuff is all irrelevant and can be covered off by multiclassing. The reason you don't see that, Meredoth is because you're the quintessential munchkin. You're not very interested in various class identities or trying out slightly different concepts or ideas. You tend to focus on making the most wizardliest wizard ever who can decimate entire worlds with his mindbeams, whether that fits in with the game setting or not.

Re: mindbeams, you tend to get hung up on the word beam and then post a bunch of irrelevant protesting about how your favourite spells other than disintegrate don't involve beams at all. I would advise that the use of "beams" should be taken as more evocative than literal and would remind you that you spent months whining about how enemies would break out of an ice spell too easily instead of being trapped in it forever because of the mechanics involved.

 

[Cryomancer]

where they made a class for not only every concept

Kits are a better way to do that. But guess what, I like having a more unique character.

s because you're the quintessential munchkin

Wrong. I din't respected once I realized that the ice prison was bugged despite planing to make an Azata cryomancer despite a fire elemental specialist being far more effective due a series of game mechanics that don't belong on this thread. If you wanna discuss it, please. Lets go to PF:WoTR thread.

t wizardliest wizard ever who can decimate entire worlds with his mindbeams, whether that fits in with the game setting or not.

Wrong.
1 - I like plenty of games with no magic. Like Mount & Blade, Fallout New Vegas, Kingdom come, Cyberbug 2077(...)
2 - I also like Gothic 1/2, games where magic is way more limited than in forgotten realms and like to play with Returning 2.0 which made being a mage even harder
3 - The kit which I wanna see the most in Infinity Engine(with mods) is the Shadow Wizard who has abjuration and evocation as prohibited schools. Which is a huge trade off.

However, if you are making an adaptation of a high level setting, the spells should be consistent with that setting.

would break out of an ice spell too easily instead of being trapped in it forever because of the mechanics involved.

Wrong. My critique is that EVERY ENEMY could break that spell easily before the DC got fixed. DC = Caster Level when in game is DC = Caster Level + 15 is a ridiculous NERF. A lv 0 peasant with 10 STR would have 55% chance of breaking free from the spell cast by a lv 9 caster. Now imagine ancient dragons on unfair difficulty. This while people playing as phantasmal mages was one hit killing dragons with phantasmal killer + favored metamagic + phantasmal mage stuff + persistent spell.

Anyway, I try to discuss BG3 here but you keep bringing WoTR and putting words in my mouth/strawmaning what I say....