Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
13,599
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Bring on a new interpretation of putting D&D into CRPGs, imo.
I accept the "new interpretation" excuse only ofr things that feel like actual improvements.

Not for "modern changes" and "improvements" like the shitty toilet chain control scheme, the abusrdly ugly UI, the lack of a day/night cycle "because too much work for us", the Diorama-like world design where everything is the distance of a shove away from the other, the garbage rest system (or lack of one), the lack of a tiredness/exhaustion mechanic, the party limited to four characters, etc.

Especially not in a modern game with almost unlimited funding that doesn't have to deal with ANY of the budget limitations that forced the occasional shortcomings in BG2.
I get where you're coming from for the most part, other than the "toilet chain" thing I think is a bit tired and more of a nitpick, but whatever.

The four character party though, I think this really is an edition difference thing. 2E tended to have the idea (I don't recall if it was explicitly stated anywhere and I'm too lazy to go look) that you'd have 5-6 players at the table, but could have more. 5E is explicitly designed and balanced around a party of four.

Day-night cycles, sure. I generally agree, but I'm not sure how much of a difference this will actually make in practice. In BG1 it made a difference because of how travel worked and random encounter spawns, etc. BG3 seems to be a far more narrative experience with no random encounters and no real overland travel - at night you camp, during the day you move around. Any evening encounter would be handled through the camp screen which is set to night. As a result, putting a day-night cycle might be a mere cosmetic that uses resources for essentially nothing due to the difference in game styles. I take this back if they've introduced overland travel and random encounters, but as far as I know they haven't and haven't planned any which also makes systems like rest, exhaustion, etc. more or less irrelevant. I suppose this works into your "diorama design" criticism and that's a fair point.

UI thing is a matter of taste. People bitched about Solasta's UI style even though it works great and, at most, a different colour scheme may have been preferable to some. It's not the best UI ever, but it's far from the worst.

Anyway, this strikes me as generally a tension between more simulationist and more narrative style games. The thing is, I think that's less about "what Baldur's Gate is" and more about the history of tabletop RPGs and how they've really changed focus over the past several decades. Games like 1E and 2E AD&D were more simulationist, gritty, and more likely to kill off your party at the table and have that be part of the game. 5E has completely moved away from that into a narrative focus on your party of Mary Sues. This tension can be seen in all of the bitching in the tabletop threads about 5E. As a result, could Larian make a game that hearkens back towards 2E systems and feel? I seriously doubt it. Not while keeping the D&D license and Baldur's Gate name anyway, because WotC has pushed to only use current edition systems and because Swen was talking about streamlining more, not less.

Things change and have different merits. As mentioned, the systems you seem to really want are well served, just not in this particular game. If it's just that you wanted a continuation of the Bhaalspawn story, it sounds like this will tie in somehow, but other than that, why would you care about that? The story was over and that desire is how you get shit like Minsc being thrown in for fan service. 2E's time has ended and the Baldur's Gate IP is far less sacred than you seem to think. Even around when the name was still relevant, games like Dark Alliance 1 & 2 came out. Feel free to buy the rereleases to refresh yourself on what it means to have a true Baldur's Gate experience. ;)
 

The Wall

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Messages
3,719
Location
SERPGIA
Finally understood why my bowels activate whenever this thread gets updated. I was looking at BG3 gameplay on Youtube. Then I realized. That's no Baldur's Gate, that's fantasy California. Every Orc, Vampire, Devil, Druid and Goblin talks, acts and thinks like 2020. Californian
 

BruceVC

Magister
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
9,964
Location
South Africa, Cape Town
Finally understood why my bowels activate whenever this thread gets updated. I was looking at BG3 gameplay on Youtube. Then I realized. That's no Baldur's Gate, that's fantasy California. Every Orc, Vampire, Devil, Druid and Goblin talks, acts and thinks like 2020. Californian
But Wall at least we have Romance options in BG3 , doesnt that make you excited?
 

Larianshill

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
2,107
Finally understood why my bowels activate whenever this thread gets updated. I was looking at BG3 gameplay on Youtube. Then I realized. That's no Baldur's Gate, that's fantasy California. Every Orc, Vampire, Devil, Druid and Goblin talks, acts and thinks like 2020. Californian
There is literally nothing wrong with the game's writing, you schizo.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,849
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
You don't have to be butthurt that this game is titled "Baldur's Gate 3" instead of "Larian sorta 5E adventure", ToB released 21 years ago and the Bhaalspawn's story was done. Anything called BG3 would've had to drop something new, no matter who developed it and no matter what system it was made with.
I think the main issue is the lack of true understanding for what Baldur's Gate means to people who played it. It ain't just DnD. It's a very concrete set of games. Baldur's Gate 3 is very visibly not a game made by fans of Baldur's Gate for fans of Baldur's Gate (with all respect to Swen's visible and honest enthusiasm for the game as such), which is also why this doesn't feel like a true successor (spiritual or actual) to the series. Compare Baldur's Gate 3 to Pathfinder, for example. Just by looking at the screenshots Pathfinder oozes the atmosphere of the Infinity Engine games.
I'm fine with it. Taking a new spin on an old thing is the way some people *show* their appreciation for that thing. Otherwise they'd choose something else or stick with their own. Not just appreciation of course:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/165081.The_Anxiety_of_Influence

so I can see why people would want something else. If you do - make that! I'm just concerned with TB crowding out RTwP completely, principally by people who never learned to play it.
 

Larianshill

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
2,107
The only "learning" involved with RTWP is learning how to mouse over the enemies and spam right click. This "genre", if it can even be called a genre, deserves to be taken out the back and shot.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,849
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
The only "learning" involved with RTWP is learning how to mouse over the enemies and spam right click. This "genre", if it can even be called a genre, deserves to be taken out the back and shot.
Thanks for making my point.

Your sucking DNE genre sucking.

There is something I don't get. If you're too lazy to do more than autoattack wouldn't you want to just click once rather than six times? How is TB different in that regard?
 

Larianshill

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
2,107
"You're just too stupid to understand it!" is the favourite song of every defender of a pile of shit, no matter what the argument is about. No, I can play your oddly slow and boring Diablo perfectly well. I just don't find it as compelling as you, for some reason, do. I prefer tactical games, for people with braincells.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
17,066
Location
Frostfell
The only "learning" involved with RTWP is learning how to mouse over the enemies and spam right click. This "genre", if it can even be called a genre, deserves to be taken out the back and shot.

HOw many RtWP games did you played? Try to play BG2 with Tactcs mod > https://weidu.org/tactics.html

There are lots of RtWP good games nad lots of TB good games. Baldur's Gate 2 is great. ToEE is great. Simple as that.

5e without extensive house ruling makes for an extremely boring crpg

So will be BG3 without mods.

There is something I don't get. If you're too lazy to do more than autoattack wouldn't you want to just click once rather than six times? How is TB different in that regard?

He never played a RtWP game, he is only repeating Swen's BS;
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
2,387
Location
Milan, Italy
5e without extensive house ruling makes for an extremely boring crpg
There are problems with the 5e and how it over-simplified a lot of stuff, but at the same time the OVERWHELMING majority of "house ruling" I've witnessed people brag about, all in the name of "golden rule of having fun over making sense", has been a uninterrupted marathon of absolute retardation, so I'll take the claim with a fucking metric ton of salt.
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
Patron
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
19,248
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Huge Mask of the Betrayer vibes from this thing. Larian should have made NWN3 instead and it would be amazing. The dice rolls on screen are a nice touch tho.
 

Black

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
1,873,142
Bm6XuZk.jpg
 

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,639
Larian should have made NWN3 instead and it would be amazing.
You know, I've thought about that too. Would probably be an easier pill to swallow for Codex also, NWN doesn't have the same fanatical following.
Given its co-op focus, Larian's "BG3" is closer to NWN as a core concept anyway. Between the Aurora Toolset and the multiplayer, complete with DM support, BioWare's NWN wasn't just meant to be "a D&D-based videogame", but a "play D&D on your computer" sort of thing and you can see the link there to SSI's NWN/FRUA. Obsidian's NWN2 walked some of that back a bit, but it still kept in the same vein. Now, for better or worse, it's clear Swen's trying to channel "modern D&D on your computer" with this one and if he'd care to learn from his predecessor's mistakes, that would be great.

What's the over/under on Larian releasing a toolset for this thing? Unless I'm misremembering, D:OS2 was supposed to have a pretty powerful level editor, but I ain't heard anything about user-created content for BG3. I'd love it if they put one out, but I'm not very hopeful at this point.

Well, because it was shit.
Careful. You keep that up, I'll start saying nice things about the Toilet Chain.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,765
Location
Copenhagen
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
2,387
Location
Milan, Italy
Careful. You keep that up, I'll start saying nice things about the Toilet Chain.
Well, that would just make you wrong on BOTH fronts.

I know that this forum has the abysmal tendency on sugarcoating even a turd if old enough to trigger some nostalgic feeling, but NWN wasn't that good even at launch, let alone in retrospective.
Even their real-time reinterpretation (with focus on single character control) of D&D was abysmal.
And it wasn't until the Hordes of the Underdark expansion that the narrative/campaign had any resemblance of quality, either.

Its major redeeming quality was being a decent backbone for multiplayer "roleplay" shards, IF you cared about that shit. Which I didn't.

I also happened to hate its flat low poly aesthetic from the get go, so that doesn't help either.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
29,892
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I trust Sven and his team to try and tell and give us a good story. That is what Larian always has done.

wat in the actual
Nah, quotes do get messed up every now and then

an entire weekend has passed and i am still baffled that a human being let alone prestigious brodexer exists who thinks larian is a guarantor for good writing
Takes all kinds.
 

Swen

Scholar
Shitposter
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
2,235
Location
Belgium, Ghent
I trust Sven and his team to try and tell and give us a good story. That is what Larian always has done.

wat in the actual
Nah, quotes do get messed up every now and then

an entire weekend has passed and i am still baffled that a human being let alone prestigious brodexer exists who thinks larian is a guarantor for good writing
DOS2 was praised for its good writing.
 

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,639
Careful. You keep that up, I'll start saying nice things about the Toilet Chain.
Well, that would just make you wrong on BOTH fronts.
You asked for it! The Toilet Chain is great, Swen is revolutionising the RPG genre because your inability to control your own party members without wanting to kill yourself is a profound and visceral depiction of the challenges of working with other people.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom