Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[FreeKaner]

I will clarify what I meant by arbitrary - having freedom to choose whatever you want in the world that is limiting potential choices. An engine example is good to present this concept at basic level, when we have objective physical limitations. Projecting of RPG has less boundaries and that fact could took as too pure idealistic statement that "everything is possible in projecting RPG" which I disagree. But we're getting possibility to reshape many things in abstract reality of gaming mechanics as long we understand how this abstraction works on its internals rules.
In simpler words - We are forced to live a life and this life is forming our shape as people and creators.

I understood what you meant but there is obviously a language barrier.

People's experiences are also not necessarily good, because a game works best when its mechanics and setting work together as well, those are also often made by different sets of people when video games are involved. Gameplay is also a vehicle to deliver the narrative and setting. Gamedevs of course have to make sure their game fits to the ruleset when they adopt the ruleset from somewhere else.

Good settings will be consistent, and indeed the concept you are talking about is called internal consistency. However that is not enough, great settings will not only be internally consistent, they will also process themselves befitting the philosophy of the setting.

That's why Lord of the Rings is a good setting for example, Tolkien being a Catholic in England and someone interested in linguistics, mythology and history of Anglo-Saxons had the right personal experiences to create a fantasy setting but also created a very consistent setting that has central philosophies that are worked throughout the series.

Another setting I like is Warhammer, one of the reasons why I like that setting is because the creators of that setting obviously read primary source material from the era they parody. A lot of the fluff in their setting is written with the language and mannerisms of how people wrote things in 12th-17th centuries with additions from 19th-20th for 40k. It is a setting that is meant to be absurd, but takes what it does seriously at the same time.

Engine comparison doesn't work, because engines are generally not made with personal preferences of engineers, they are made with what's available. Still it is true that limitations, and even arbitrary ones are actually good. Making things within constraints actually stokes creativity, absolute freedom is not a good quality in any creative endeavor. Consistency is constraint in itself.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

I will clarify what I meant by arbitrary - having freedom to choose whatever you want in the world that is limiting potential choices. An engine example is good to present this concept at basic level, when we have objective physical limitations. Projecting of RPG has less boundaries and that fact could took as too pure idealistic statement that "everything is possible in projecting RPG" which I disagree. But we're getting possibility to reshape many things in abstract reality of gaming mechanics as long we understand how this abstraction works on its internals rules.
In simpler words - We are forced to live a life and this life is forming our shape as people and creators.

I understood what you meant but there is obviously a language barrier.

People's experiences are also not necessarily good, because a game works best when its mechanics and setting work together as well, those are also often made by different sets of people when video games are involved. Gameplay is also a vehicle to deliver the narrative and setting. Gamedevs of course have to make sure their game fits to the ruleset when they adopt the ruleset from somewhere else.

Good settings will be consistent, and indeed the concept you are talking about is called internal consistency. However that is not enough, great settings will not only be internally consistent, they will also process themselves befitting the philosophy of the setting.

That's why Lord of the Rings is a good setting for example, Tolkien being a Catholic in England and someone interested in linguistics, mythology and history of Anglo-Saxons had the right personal experiences to create a fantasy setting but also created a very consistent setting that has central philosophies that are worked throughout the series.

Another setting I like is Warhammer, one of the reasons why I like that setting is because the creators of that setting obviously read primary source material from the era they parody. A lot of the fluff in their setting is written with the language and mannerisms of how people wrote things in 12th-17th centuries with additions from 19th-20th for 40k. It is a setting that is meant to be absurd, but takes what it does seriously at the same time.

Engine comparison doesn't work, because engines are generally not made with personal preferences of engineers, they are made with what's available. Still it is true that limitations, and even arbitrary ones are actually good. Making things within constraints actually stokes creativity, absolute freedom is not a good quality in any creative endeavor. Consistency is constraint in itself.

Let's compromise that with statement, that arbitrary in engine engineeringis strongly limited by never changing law of physics and long-termed social rules like law and crafting traditions, when in RPG when have much more possibilities, also room on arbitrary, because existing rules of creation are much more fluent, but fluently itself doesn't eliminate importance of limitations in creative process.

 

[Delterius]

when in RPG when have much more possibilities, also room on arbitrary, because existing rules of creation are much more fluent

No. Because fashion, sociology, culture, religion, linguistics, anthropology, history and historical circumstance, media and all the things that led to the creation of these settings are no less constraining than the laws of physics. Which are also not absent from these settings either. You can create a world where magic or technology or metaphysics are such that the laws of physics do not apply such as we would expect them to. But there are obvious limitations to that, as creators will not entertain every nook and cranny of the implications of their toying with universal constants.

As always these decisions are not arbitrary, at all - just as no art comes from a void creators are permanently inspired by each other and their predecessors. If one's creation is fluent at all to anyone but their own neurons, then it was a product of reasoned decisions that interact with the rest of humanity. They are by definition not a product of unmitigated freedom and arbitrariety. But of cooperation, plagiarism, and inspiration. Creators are not absolute monarchs of their own minds, they are not lights which shines no further than their personal room in the ivory tower. They lead human lives and are in conversation with the rest of the world.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

when in RPG when have much more possibilities, also room on arbitrary, because existing rules of creation are much more fluent

No. Because fashion, sociology, culture, religion, linguistics, anthropology, history and historical circumstance, media and all the things that led to the creation of these settings are no less constraining than the laws of physics. Which are also not absent from these settings either. You can create a world where magic or technology or metaphysics are such that the laws of physics do not apply such as we would expect them to. But there are obvious limitations to that, as creators will not entertain every nook and cranny of the implications of their toying with universal constants.

As always these decisions are not arbitrary, at all - just as no art comes from a void creators are permanently inspired by each other and their predecessors. If one's creation is fluent at all to anyone but their own neurons, then it was a product of reasoned decisions that interact with the rest of humanity. They are by definition not a product of unmitigated freedom and arbitrariety. But of cooperation, plagiarism, and inspiration. Creators are not absolute monarchs of their own minds, they are not lights which shines no further than their personal room in the ivory tower. They lead human lives and are in conversation with the rest of the world.

You are fussy today, Delterius.

 

[Delterius]

You are fussy today, @Delterius.

flattery will not avail you gallic temptress

 

[La vie sexuelle]

You are fussy today, @Delterius.

flattery will not avail you gallic temptress

Bah!

 

[whydoibother]

Engine comparison doesn't work, because engines are generally not made with personal preferences of engineers, they are made with what's available.

It should be noted that the people choosing the plot and narrative themes of the game, the people choosing the visual aesthetic and mood of the game, and the people making the game engine, are often not the same people, and don't have the same subjective experience of the world or opinion on what's being discussed by the game.
Whereas the Lord of the Rings is a world by Tolkien. Baldur's Gate 3 is not a world by Swen.

 

[MerchantKing]

You are fussy today, @Delterius.

flattery will not avail you gallic temptress

I think he's actually a male pretending to be a woman with his feminine looking avatar.

 

[FreeKaner]

Let's compromise that with statement, that arbitrary in engine engineeringis strongly limited by never changing law of physics and long-termed social rules like law and crafting traditions, when in RPG when have much more possibilities, also room on arbitrary, because existing rules of creation are much more fluent, but fluently itself doesn't eliminate importance of limitations in creative process.

Drop the engine comparison and I agree completely. Limitations are good for creativity, putting in a limited framework creates a more fertile space because to have same breadth in more limited space you need to have more depth, it also keeps things a lot more coherent.

However that is not necessarily always good either, particularly when the arbitrary limitations are truly arbitrary. For example "medieval era" in "medieval fantasy" settings are hardly medieval, they just claim to be because they don't have gunpowder or whatever. Arbitrary is sometimes exactly that, arbitrary and not satisfactory.

 

[whydoibother]

You are fussy today, @Delterius.

flattery will not avail you gallic temptress

I think he's actually a male pretending to be a woman with his feminine looking avatar.

Pretending where?
Avatars aren't ID photos (except mine).

 

[La vie sexuelle]

It's Katarina from Romancing SaGa 3:
https://saga.fandom.com/wiki/Katarina_Lauran

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

When it comes to Warhammer, there's some inspiration on historical stuff and all, but it's mostly meant to be a parody of Tatcher era Britain and conservatives in general. You can't read these tirades about gods, emperors and the like and not think it's something poking fun at it. It's a similar thing to Judge Dredd as a mockery of right wingers in general, 2000AD and Warhammer stuff share a lot of writers and everyone at 2000AD was a hippie and/or a commie back then.

 

[Mortmal]

You are fussy today, @Delterius.

flattery will not avail you gallic temptress

I think he's actually a male pretending to be a woman with his feminine looking avatar.

On rpgcodex when it comes to rpg or women , what is important is to what the individual identify as.

 

[MerchantKing]

You are fussy today, @Delterius.

flattery will not avail you gallic temptress

I think he's actually a male pretending to be a woman with his feminine looking avatar.

On rpgcodex when it comes to rpg or women , what is important is to what the individual identify as.

Just because disco elysium identifies as an rpg or a man pretends to be a woman doesn't make it so.

 

[Mortmal]

You are fussy today, @Delterius.

flattery will not avail you gallic temptress

I think he's actually a male pretending to be a woman with his feminine looking avatar.

On rpgcodex when it comes to rpg or women , what is important is to what the individual identify as.

Just because disco elysium identifies as an rpg or a man pretends to be a woman doesn't make it so.

I dont make the rules here , its no console and everything that identify as rpg.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

You are fussy today, @Delterius.

flattery will not avail you gallic temptress

I think he's actually a male pretending to be a woman with his feminine looking avatar.

On rpgcodex when it comes to rpg or women , what is important is to what the individual identify as.

I identify as a cute heterosexual male!

Spoiler

And Not-so-anonymous-waifus-scholar

 

[conan_edw]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1086940/view/6625405551529612836

Blood In Baldur's Gate
15 years before the events of Baldur's Gate 3, the streets of the city ran red with blood.

Tavs, we need your help. Will your sharp analytical minds unravel these heinous killings before the murderer strikes again?

bloodinbaldursgate.com

 

[MerchantKing]

You are fussy today, @Delterius.

flattery will not avail you gallic temptress

I think he's actually a male pretending to be a woman with his feminine looking avatar.

On rpgcodex when it comes to rpg or women , what is important is to what the individual identify as.

I identify as a cute heterosexual male!

Spoiler

And Not-so-anonymous-waifus-scholar

You have to be joking. Absolutely no way you were the Anonymous Wife Scholar.

 

[The_Mask]

In a rather humorous fashion, you can actually download the BG III and Larian logos by participating. Not sure why they felt the need to include that, but...

 

[Delterius]

murders? the pc did it

 

[MerchantKing]

murders? the pc did it

It's not murder if you're the owner of the game. The npcs are your property hence you can do whatever you want with them.

 

[Delterius]

murders? the pc did it

It's not murder if you're the owner of the game. The npcs are your property hence you can do whatever you want with them.

why would i want to own a game that lacks consequences for my choices

 

[MerchantKing]

murders? the pc did it

It's not murder if you're the owner of the game. The npcs are your property hence you can do whatever you want with them.

why would i want to own a game that lacks consequences for my choices

There are no consequences if you don't leave any witnesses.

 

[Delterius]

murders? the pc did it

It's not murder if you're the owner of the game. The npcs are your property hence you can do whatever you want with them.

why would i want to own a game that lacks consequences for my choices

There are no consequences if you don't leave any witnesses.

god and the squirrels are the witness

 

[The_Mask]

There are no consequences if you don't leave any witnesses.

I thought the story went that if you have alibis everywhere, witnesses don't matter as much.