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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

mediocrepoet

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Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
My actual concern is this'll be another larian RPG that's fun early-midgane

This is still better than a lot of the shit that comes out.
More bargaining.

Bargaining about what? They made a thing. I paid them for it a few years ago and had a reasonably good time with the early access build. I still have fond memories of shoving Lae'zel off the side of the airship. Now I expect to have enough of a good time with it to make the purchase worth it to me whether I complete the game or not and whether I remember it in a year or not.
 

Zeriel

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Never forget this whig wearing sodomite wrote most of BG2:

unnamed.png


He was probably heavily censored. If given free reign today gay bear sex would probably be the least of our concerns.

Back then people like him censored themselves. They tried to blend in. That's all. I mean... even people who used to be "based" now cater to the mentally ill, so it is always about the consensus and the peer pressure to melt into the larger culture. When the larger culture is deranged, very few people will resist it.
 

Zeriel

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Not a fan of him but he just said there was nothing wrong with powergaming, kinda hard to disagree with that but you need +80 iq to separate the message from the messenger so I can understand why it’s difficult for some.
There is something wrong with power gaming. It encourages super niche builds where as, Josh says himself, he created some +12 initiative guy who specifically was from some dumb island or whatever. Or in Pillars, characters with Noble backgrounds where no nobility lives. Pillars is all about working backwards, fitting what is mechanically optimal to the race/background that creates that character. And it lead to dumb end results where the CYOA modules, the simulations of puttering around in the real world, don't line up with the stats that result in mechanically superior combat mechanics.

But Josh loves that quirky crap. He likes the kind of no fun allowed where his buddy wanted a charisma based fighter, and he discouraged him because it wasn't effective mechanically as the face of the party or in combat. Which when you think about it, most fighters/soldiers historically are extremely well-served by higher charisma. They're put into leadership positions, everyone likes them more, they're more likely to survive by having more buddies, etc. Mercenary captains and leaders of soldiers have always needed to be at least a little charismatic.

He does make good points about the motivation behind optimization. You do it because you don't know how hard the game is going to be, and you want your character to remain useful until the end. I never want to create some limp-wristed noodle who gets outpaced by party companions. That's lame. I want to create a character who would logically and realistically be the guy who leads a party to consistent glory.

Interestingly,the original, "this is just a wargame evolved" rulesets were better at addressing this than either the modern editions or Sawyer's retarded ideas.

In 1e and 2e you were supposed to have mediocre stats be the "norm", the game was not supposed to be balanced around 18s, and even if you thought your fighter sucked ass physically because he was charismatic... fighters get hirelings & entire kingdoms as you level up, so you could quite easily roleplay a popular but not amazing fighter who gets by as a leader rather than a wet works operative.

It's amusing to me that the games that were most closest to the number-crunching origin are the ones that are best focused on the actual roleplay part of the medium. Goddamn does this reality make me hate Sawyer even more. It comes back to the eternal conundrum: is he as fucking stupid as he appears, or is he just pretending?
 

Gradenmayer

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We should make custom Codex campaign in BG3 where you have to survive waves of Druid-bears storming the castle to get your ass and the only way to kill them are bardic slurs.
 
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You literally left me speechless with this gameplay video. Will fit right in with the current times, next to Wrath of the Tranny and Dragon Age: Bullrider. Obviously the game doesn't take itself seriously but it surely destroys my immersion.

I am perfectly fine having this cringe stuff in certain type of movies where it is enjoyable but NOT in my beloved Baldur's Gate!


It isn't that bad. Just like promotion materials said the game is bending around player. In fact, some companions want to stop you before opening these doors and are displeased when you do that. Also, acting silly is only an option.




You literally left me speechless with this gameplay video. Will fit right in with the current times, next to Wrath of the Tranny and Dragon Age: Bullrider. Obviously the game doesn't take itself seriously but it surely destroys my immersion.



I admit I did laugh at this when I played EA, but I blame the IPA I was thoroughly enjoying at the time.

The humour is a bit puerile but I'd certainly try not to let it ruin what otherwise looks to like a solid game and a rewarding experience to play. I suppose stuff like this is an attempt to mirror the kind of ridiculous nonsense you end up dealing with round the table in a TTRPG, but videos like that in this context make it look a little deranged.


Cringe gameplay for cringe players. Simple as it.

worst part of the video is the person rolls a '6' needing a 17 to succeed and then somehow with a bunch of gay zoomer 'don't make me cry' bonuses actually ends up overcoming the 17 challenge rating.
 

Nifft Batuff

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Ironically bg2 is both linear and simplistic compared to this. No skill or even attribute checks, railroaded plot with barely any c&c, npcs barely acknowledge your class, race or even gender.

Not even turn-based ITT. Even the fagfinder games far surpassed original trilogy in quality and depth.

I guess it comes down to nostalgia, aesthetics and hatred of faggotry basically(specially the latter)
Why "ironically"? It is universally accepted now that BG1&2 are decline.
 

AwesomeButton

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Sawyer's retarded ideas
Yeah, ideas like "every ability stat should have a purpose for every class", which it does have.
The problem isn't the idea. Having a "strong wizard" (or a "warrior-mage") is an interesting concept. The problem lies in the execution of said idea. Trying to "keep it balanced" isn't going to help.
What's the problem with the execution exactly?

In my experience, every decision I make about a stat increase or decrease in Pillars has a cost and has an effect. That's not something that can be said for D&D 5th, nor 2nd edition when translated to a videogame, where you end up having "dump stats", and a rule of "don't set a stat to an odd number unless the next thing you will do at the first opportunity will be to increase it to an even number value".

D&D still has no-brainer decisions available, yet Pillars is the "retarded" system, how come? As someone who has played both a lot - Pillars' system requires more thought. On the other hand there's lots of posers parroting some uninformed opinion they read on the Codex and 4chan.

Let's pick "the right race", then "the right class" for said raice, or "one of the right classes", then set a dump stat to 8 in D&D, and voila - we've achieved the pinnacle of build strategy. Look how smart we are.

* I have my views about Pillars'/Deadfire's system's shortcomings as well, but that's for another post.
 
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Saravan

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Ironically bg2 is both linear and simplistic compared to this. No skill or even attribute checks, railroaded plot with barely any c&c, npcs barely acknowledge your class, race or even gender.

Not even turn-based ITT. Even the fagfinder games far surpassed original trilogy in quality and depth.

I guess it comes down to nostalgia, aesthetics and hatred of faggotry basically(specially the latter)
Why "ironically"? It is universally accepted now that BG1&2 are decline.
How far do you have to go back before games are not decline, if BG 1&2 are also that? Goldbox games? Sometimes it just sounds like you fags try to outcompete each other regarding how old school you pretend to be while like Fedora still end up gobbling up all the modern shit anyways ‘out of spite’ or some other cope excuse.
 

Fedora Master

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Ironically bg2 is both linear and simplistic compared to this. No skill or even attribute checks, railroaded plot with barely any c&c, npcs barely acknowledge your class, race or even gender.

Not even turn-based ITT. Even the fagfinder games far surpassed original trilogy in quality and depth.

I guess it comes down to nostalgia, aesthetics and hatred of faggotry basically(specially the latter)
Why "ironically"? It is universally accepted now that BG1&2 are decline.
How far do you have to go back before games are not decline, if BG 1&2 are also that? Goldbox games? Sometimes it just sounds like you fags try to outcompete each other regarding how old school you pretend to be while like Fedora still end up gobbling up all the modern shit anyways ‘out of spite’ or some other cope excuse.
It's retarded revisionism that happens with every goddamn game here. Give it 5 more years and people will claim The Outer Worlds was actually good.
 

Nifft Batuff

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Yeah, I believe that's what he means by system - i.e. the various ways a player can interact with the game-world.

IMO it can be quite a big deal though, when it comes to changing the feel of gameplay decisions by a player. Most traditional CRPGs have very limited system interactivity - i.e. most of the choices you can make comes up in a dialogue box or prompt the developer has specifically laid out for you.
This leads to a situation where all your choices/decisions feel like a multiple choice quiz the dev is giving you.

Whereas in games like DOS, Deus Ex, Elder Scrolls etc because the additional systems are there, you can be more proactive with your choices and come out feeling like you actually thought of a solution as opposed to it being something 100% preplanned and presented to you by the Dev. Even if the devs totally planned for it
Yeah. This is also very akin to table top RPGs, at least the old school ones. While BG1&2 can be considered the antithesis of this system design. BG1&2 are more akin to visual novels, interrupted by combat sessions (that are 90% auto-played thanks to RTwP).
 

AwesomeButton

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How far do you have to go back before games are not decline
Not that far. I'd say they are decline compared to Fallout/2 if what one is going for is reactivity to mechanics and story choice. Back in the day that was the comparison - BG vs Fallout, and initially most people were in the Fallout camp.

As for combat, I'm not decided on who gets the prize, because the goals are ultimately completely different. Fallout's goal is to emulate tabletop, whereas BG's combat seems to start with the same intention but ends up feeling like something of a gambling game - coin tossing, or slot machine. The player sits in front of the screen, rooting for his character to get the right RNG on its next swing, and the enemy to get the bad RNG on their next swing. Ironically RtwP combat in the BGs, as an experience, doesn't have much to do with tabletop D&D combat, as an experience.
 

Nifft Batuff

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Ironically bg2 is both linear and simplistic compared to this. No skill or even attribute checks, railroaded plot with barely any c&c, npcs barely acknowledge your class, race or even gender.

Not even turn-based ITT. Even the fagfinder games far surpassed original trilogy in quality and depth.

I guess it comes down to nostalgia, aesthetics and hatred of faggotry basically(specially the latter)
Why "ironically"? It is universally accepted now that BG1&2 are decline.
How far do you have to go back before games are not decline, if BG 1&2 are also that? Goldbox games? Sometimes it just sounds like you fags try to outcompete each other regarding how old school you pretend to be while like Fedora still end up gobbling up all the modern shit anyways ‘out of spite’ or some other cope excuse.
Fallout?
 

whydoibother

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It's retarded revisionism that happens with every goddamn game here. Give it 5 more years and people will claim The Outer Worlds was actually good.
Starfield will release soon, retroactively making Skyrim good. People will make videos of the things that Skyrim had, that Starfield doesn't. Maaaaan, the decline! Bethesda used to be good!
 

AwesomeButton

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Let's pose the real questions:

1. What do "old-skool" "hardcore" "get off my lawn" "AD&D2 is da best" gorgnards say they want in their D&D cRPG adaptation - isn't it the closest-to-PnP experience possible?

2. Which is the better representation of the tabletop experience? BG1/2 or BG3? :lol:
 

Grunker

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Let's pose the real questions:

1. What do "old-skool" "hardcore" "get off my lawn" "AD&D2 is da best" gorgnards say they want in their D&D cRPG adaptation - isn't it the closest-to-PnP experience possible?

2. Which is the better representation of the tabletop experience? BG1/2 or BG3? :lol:

It’s hard to know anything for sure, but one thing we can rely on with absolute certainty is that arguing with AD&D cultists is absolutely pointless. If someone is starting from such an obviously, hopelessly indefensible position, what’s the hope for progress in a discussion?
 

AwesomeButton

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
It’s hard to know anything for sure, but one thing we can rely on with absolute certainty is that arguing with AD&D cultists is absolutely pointless. If someone is starting from such an obviously, hopelessly indefensible position, what’s the hope for progress in a discussion?
I agree that's beating a dead horse. It was the "retarded Pillars - monocled D&D" dead horse that set me on the subject.
 

Gradenmayer

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I liked Pillar’s stats, “muh immersion” bullshit aside, getting to increase area of effect on any class just by levelling an attribute was incredibly fun.
 

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