Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Grunker]

Fallout?

Let's pose the real questions:

1. What do "old-skool" "hardcore" "get off my lawn" "AD&D2 is da best" gorgnards say they want in their D&D cRPG adaptation - isn't it the closest-to-PnP experience possible?

2. Which is the better representation of the tabletop experience? BG1/2 or BG3?

It’s hard to know anything for sure, but one thing we can rely on with absolute certainty is that arguing with AD&D cultists is absolutely pointless. If someone is starting from such an obviously, hopelessly indefensible position, what’s the hope for progress in a discussion?

 

[AwesomeButton]

It’s hard to know anything for sure, but one thing we can rely on with absolute certainty is that arguing with AD&D cultists is absolutely pointless. If someone is starting from such an obviously, hopelessly indefensible position, what’s the hope for progress in a discussion?

I agree that's beating a dead horse. It was the "retarded Pillars - monocled D&D" dead horse that set me on the subject.

 

[Gradenmayer]

I liked Pillar’s stats, “muh immersion” bullshit aside, getting to increase area of effect on any class just by levelling an attribute was incredibly fun.

 

[Harthwain]

What's the problem with the execution exactly?

In my experience, every decision I make about a stat increase or decrease in Pillars has a cost and has an effect.

When it comes to balance? Well, the saying goes "Jack of all trades, master of none".

While you are correct in saying that a stat increase or decrease has a cost and has an effect, these effects feel marginal. Which is a boring way to handle things. This is exactly why I yawn whenever I see an RPG that uses %-based system for stats and skills. I think a much better system is more akin to Blood Bowl: even a single increase (or decrease) in a stat has tremendous effect (whether we talk about going from Strength 3 to Stregth 4 or from Stregth 4 to Strength 5). Skills, too, have much more impact on what a player can do on the pitch (although I do admit that Blood Bowl also suffers from certain skills being "too good" or "too niche"). And all this can happen in a span of a single level-up. With Pillars of Eternity this is not the case.

And it's not just me who's thinking that. Grunker in a retrospective review said something similar about Pillars of Eternity:

When I first finished Pillars of Eternity, it was with an odd sensation of disappointed near-fulfillment. Like I just eaten a fine meal seasoned with ash. Everything from the gameplay to the story showed infinite promise, but nothing quite delivered on the theoretical potential.

[...]

Sawyer announced his goal was to make every skill, talent and attribute of his system useful. Not necessarily equally good – but the intention was to make sure that there were no "traps" – abilities which were downright awful.

[...]

On the surface, Sawyer reached his goals.

[...]

The careful balancing and uniformity of Pillars' system came at a steep price, however: the changes you made to a character on creation and level up felt completely minuscule at the game's launch. A huge part of this was thanks to the universality of the abilities in the system and the fairly minor impact of each system asset.

After that (and other problems the game had) I didn't bother with The White March.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I can't think of another game where you can build a wizad as a melee fighter with summoned magical weapons, and have that be a very effective build. Just as effective as a tradional crowd control wizard build.

 

[Grunker]

One thing that has the AD&D groggies' cognitive dissonance running is that they all really want to throw down with the 3.5 crowd and criticize 5E's regression when it comes to character customization, but it's just such a difficult proposition when the character customization in your own system more often than not comes down to just clicking 'OK' on a level-up screen displaying the hit point roll result of your level-up.

 

[Kem0sabe]

The character progression system in BG1&2 was shit, almost no way to customize your character beyond the initial class and stats choices at character creation.

For all the problems BG3 might have, it at least allows you to actually create and progress a unique character, with meaningful choices, throughout the game.

 

[Sarathiour]

Jaheria has kids lol.

CHARNAME got that Jahussy.

Fabulously optimistic take thinking that those kids are khalid's or CHARNAME's one, and not the next poor schmuck in line she set her sight upon the very second CAHRNAME fucked off to others plane.

 

[AwesomeButton]

After that (and other problems the game had) I didn't bother with The White March.

That's a huge mistake. The two parts of The White March represent the best of Pillars 1. I'd rather have the whole game split into adventures of this size, if they were of that quality, but again try explaining this to the the unwashed masses, who would rebel against an "episodic game".

these effects feel marginal. Which is a boring way to handle things.

"Feel" is the operative word. The sum of my cricisim for Pillars' system (in later years) is that Josh went so far into balanced system design that he neglected how much the feel of things matters to the player. If you think of "+5 Accuracy" as of a "+1 to hit chance" (one is 1/20th of 100, the other is 1/20 of, well, 20), things start to look less alien.

Josh's system is at the same time more fine-grained than anything in PnP, and also has much more factors impacting a final score than anything in PnP or in the more simplistic BGs based on a more simplistic AD&D2. The end result is that the maths take too long to make mentally, the differences between build / gear choices are not clear cut enough for a player without experience with the system, and most players either resign in frustration, or are simply players who don't care about the numbers beyond their character level, aka casuals.

This is exactly why I yawn whenever I see an RPG that uses %-based system for stats and skills.

I seem to remember you liking Elden Ring? That has such number inflation that you might as well stop thinking about individual numbers either. But that's ok?

 

[Harthwain]

I can't think of another game where you can build a wizad as a melee fighter with summoned magical weapons, and have that be a very effective build. Just as effective as a tradional crowd control wizard build.

Pathfinder? Although it probably requires more know-how.

That's a huge mistake.

Maybe, but with the whole feeling of blandness after Pillars of Eternity I didn't have any hope of it getting better, so I stopped bothering reading about the series.

Josh's system at the same time more fine-grained than anything in PnP, and also has much more factors impacting a final score than anything in PnP or in the more simplistic BGs based on a more simplistic AD&D2. The end result is that the maths take too long to make mentally, the differences between build / gear choices are not clear cut enough for a player without experience with the system, and most players either resign in frustration, or are simply players who don't care about the numbers beyond their character level, aka casuals.

True.

I seem to remember you liking Elden Ring?

I stopped playing Dark Souls games after Dark Souls 2. And I didn't like Dark Souls for its system (it was more about the atmosphere and the supposed challenge).

 

[AwesomeButton]

One thing that has the AD&D groggies' cognitive dissonance running is that they all really want to throw down with the 3.5 crowd and criticize 5E's regression when it comes to character customization, but it's just such a difficult proposition when the character customization in your own system more often than not comes down to just clicking 'OK' on a level-up screen displaying the hit point roll result of your level-up.

The character progression system in BG1&2 was shit, almost no way to customize your character beyond the initial class and stats choices at character creation.

For all the problems BG3 might have, it at least allows you to actually create and progress a unique character, with meaningful choices, throughout the game.

Self-proclaimed purists don't really really want the most faitfhful representation of the tabletop experience on a computer. Before someone starts nitpicking, I mean the "tabletop experience", not the literal implementation of tabletop rules as per the books.

What they really want is a mechanically simplistic, reactivity-simplistic game, where they can LARP that they are making character build decisions, while in reality beelining for a golden path. This golden path is moderately challenging to calculate for a 7th-grader, which they were back when they were playing the original BGs. At most they'll need the meta knowledge of one-two playthroughs before they start feeling like real "aces" of the RPG.

"I didn't pay you for a PnP experience! Just convince me that I'm very intelligent, then take your clothes off!"

 

[Pizzashoes]

Fabulously optimistic take thinking that those kids are khalid's or CHARNAME's one, and not the next poor schmuck in line she set her sight upon the very second CAHRNAME fucked off to others plane.

I'm thinking odds are low she even mentions Khalid's name in the course of Baldur's Gate 3.

 

[The_Mask]

After that (and other problems the game had) I didn't bother with The White March.

Perception is king. Which is something that you can easily compare between two chars at the end of the game. You take any companion given by the game, and then you make your own Watcher that ends up with something like 27 Perception, and you just notice how OP it is. It's just never spelled out.

The real issues with PoE is that muscles affect spell damage. And that Intelligence affects how effective a Barbarian howl is. Which, don't get me wrong, I totally love a good episode of Fairy Tail. Everyone does. Erza's theme is a banger. But, at the end of the day, it's patently silly and not everyone's gonna buy it.

Also, The White March is pretty solid.

 

[Gradenmayer]

PoE to DnD is what Path of Exile is to Diablo.
It has depth and customisation beyond clicking the right or wrong button and people freak out like it’s the most complex shit ever made.

 

[Kiste]

Sometimes it just sounds like you fags try to outcompete each other regarding how old school you pretend to be while like Fedora still end up gobbling up all the modern shit anyways ‘out of spite’ or some other cope excuse.

Sometimes?

 

[Mortmal]

I mean in a video game powergaming or rather minmaxing is a necessity for challenging combat at higher difficulties. There has to be a threshold for optimal builds else no build choices end up mattering.

There are tradeoffs obviously because it's a game and there's always going to be best ways to solve constraints regardless of how anyone feels about it. But how you feel it about it is important because it's a fantasy game. The optimal builds are just based on the arbitrary constraints of the game. That's the two competing forces. But creating characters more further grounded in reality and then beating the game properly within those constraints is way more interesting.

I agree but that’s difficult to design in a game. Anyways I’m not optimistic about BG3 being challenging at all nor requiring any interesting minmaxing due to a combination of the game being made by Larian and based on 5e and that’s is likely going to fundamentally be the reason why the game feels boring to play.

The game will not be challenging, it can't possibly be. There are unlimited rests and unlimited resources with a vancian magic system. I've read more about the tactician mode, which features more enemies, increased HP, and better chance to hit, along with... Surprise! Explosive barrels. I'm almost certain it will end up being more tedious than challenging, with damage sponge enemies and a boring slog. The explosive barrels don't add much tactical depth to it.
Combat in CRPGs has always been poorer compared to tabletop games, and BG3 will not change that. But why would they bother when no one cares about it?
We will encounter exactly the same problems as with Solasta, no attrition, no sense of danger, but how can we blame them when they are delivering exactly what their customers expect from them, precisely what the old fans of Bioware have always wanted, but better.

 

[Swen]

This is Fedora Master and the other autists while being "outraged" by the bear scene

 

[Orud]

One thing that has the AD&D groggies' cognitive dissonance running is that they all really want to throw down with the 3.5 crowd and criticize 5E's regression when it comes to character customization, but it's just such a difficult proposition when the character customization in your own system more often than not comes down to just clicking 'OK' on a level-up screen displaying the hit point roll result of your level-up.

Frankly, 5th edition is a lot closer to AD&D than 3.x is. Good luck explaining this to the fake AD&D 'connoisseurs' that only ever played BG1/2 or other video games.

 

[Drakortha]

Can't believe the shit I'm reading in here.

Taking a huge shit on Josh Sawyer, and for what? to try to make BG3 not look like a piece of shit?

You faggots need to be reminded that Fallout: New Vegas released during the dark age of RPGs. When the other RPG's on offer at the time was decline shit like Dragon Age and Mass effect. Which funnily enough BG3 emulates perfectly with their shitty writing, characters, and cinematics.

Larian is bringing back the dark age of RPGs and you are celebrating by shitting on the man and the company that actually turned this shit ship around (well almost), only to be steered right back into shit waters again by the woke, millenial/zoomer faggots at Larian. Fucking shameful lot you are.

 

[Orud]

Fabulously optimistic take thinking that those kids are khalid's or CHARNAME's one.

She did seem awfully 'surprised' to the point of being speechless after I rejected godhood. Fucking bitch was probably already eyeing Anomen.

 

[Fedora Master]

This is Fedora Master and the other autists while being "outraged" by the bear scene

As opposed to you and the rest of your sicko decline enablers:

 

[La vie sexuelle]

You literally left me speechless with this gameplay video. Will fit right in with the current times, next to Wrath of the Tranny and Dragon Age: Bullrider. Obviously the game doesn't take itself seriously but it surely destroys my immersion.

I am perfectly fine having this cringe stuff in certain type of movies where it is enjoyable but NOT in my beloved Baldur's Gate!

It isn't that bad. Just like promotion materials said the game is bending around player. In fact, some companions want to stop you before opening these doors and are displeased when you do that. Also, acting silly is only an option.

You literally left me speechless with this gameplay video. Will fit right in with the current times, next to Wrath of the Tranny and Dragon Age: Bullrider. Obviously the game doesn't take itself seriously but it surely destroys my immersion.

I admit I did laugh at this when I played EA, but I blame the IPA I was thoroughly enjoying at the time.

The humour is a bit puerile but I'd certainly try not to let it ruin what otherwise looks to like a solid game and a rewarding experience to play. I suppose stuff like this is an attempt to mirror the kind of ridiculous nonsense you end up dealing with round the table in a TTRPG, but videos like that in this context make it look a little deranged.

Cringe gameplay for cringe players. Simple as it.

worst part of the video is the person rolls a '6' needing a 17 to succeed and then somehow with a bunch of gay zoomer 'don't make me cry' bonuses actually ends up overcoming the 17 challenge rating.

Bonuses come from statistics. Nihil novi sub sole in D&D world.


But perhaps you are right, BG3 is shizo game for perverts. And I like BG3, it means I'm subverted white Frenchman. Le pervert de l'Hexagone.


I just put there this completely unrelated video:

 

[whydoibother]

Can't believe the shit I'm reading in here.

Taking a huge shit on Josh Sawyer, and for what? to make BG3 not look like a piece of shit?

You faggots need to be reminded that Fallout: New Vegas released during the dark age of RPGs. When the other RPG's on offer at the time was decline shit like Dragon Age and Mass effect. Which funnily enough BG3 emulates perfectly with their shitty writing, characters, and cinematics.

Larian is bringing back the dark age of RPGs and you are celebrating by shitting on the man and the company that actually turned this shit ship around (well almost), only to be steered right back into shit waters again by the woke, millenial/zoomer faggots at Larian. Fucking shameful lot you are.

t.

 

[Nerevar]

Something really strange is happening on BG2. I can't comprehend what is happening.

Okay get this the screen is dark and the ambient sound of the city is replaced by cicadas, also some of the NPCs are missing from where they usually should be? Resting seems to make it go away but it will come back if I rest again?

I think my copy of Baldurs gate is haunted. Hopefully there isn't anything like this on BG3.

 

[Gradenmayer]

Something really strange is happening on BG2. I can't comprehend what is happening.

Okay get this the screen is dark and the ambient sound of the city is replaced by cicadas, also some of the NPCs are missing from where they usually should be? Resting seems to make it go away but it will come back if I rest again?

I think my copy of Baldurs gate is haunted. Hopefully there isn't anything like this on BG3.

Don’t worry BG3 doesn’t have that shitty bug.