Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[fantadomat]

Let's get real, no Codexer really knows whether 5E (or for that matter 4E) are really "inferior" because they've never played a CRPG that used those systems (with the exception of those few who played the Solasta demo which is no longer available). Everybody's just going off what they've heard from tabletop nerds, but since when did we give a fuck about them?

Speak for yourself, I've played 5e games.

It's a pretty boring system for people who like complex character builds and the old fashioned power curve. On the plus side, it's very easy to get people who don't normally play tabletop into.

The reduced power creep also makes it very easy for GMs to design encounters as even a pack of goblins can be dangerous to relatively high level characters.

Still, Pathfinder and 3.5 all the way.

I never played 5e because all of my friends that play table shit are 3.5 or earlier,like me. All i heard is that it is very dumbed down garbage that doesn't even take alignments in to count. And you could end up with some dumb shit like paladins stealing and raping shit. Anyway,i do try to stay away from the corruption of dumbing down.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Pillars was 4E, more or less.

 

[Tacgnol]

Let's get real, no Codexer really knows whether 5E (or for that matter 4E) are really "inferior" because they've never played a CRPG that used those systems (with the exception of those few who played the Solasta demo which is no longer available). Everybody's just going off what they've heard from tabletop nerds, but since when did we give a fuck about them?

Speak for yourself, I've played 5e games.

It's a pretty boring system for people who like complex character builds and the old fashioned power curve. On the plus side, it's very easy to get people who don't normally play tabletop into.

The reduced power creep also makes it very easy for GMs to design encounters as even a pack of goblins can be dangerous to relatively high level characters.

Still, Pathfinder and 3.5 all the way.

I never played 5e because all of my friends that play table shit are 3.5 or earlier,like me. All i heard is that it is very dumbed down garbage that doesn't even take alignments in to count. And you could end up with some dumb shit like paladins stealing and raping shit. Anyway,i do try to stay away from the corruption of dumbing down.

It is pretty dumbed down. That does make it useful gateway for getting people into 3.5 or Pathfinder though.

It also is quite interesting to play a tabletop game without high player power growth. Though that in my experience is usually the thing that leads people to want to try 3.5 or PF after getting the taste for tabletop from 5e.

 

[Riddler]

I didn't expect that TB combat would be what upsets people so much.

For perspective, we were fully expecting an action abomination with real-time combat (no pause), just like all the other AAA "RPG's". And now TB combat is the big problem???

I like both RTwP and TB, by the way. They are similar enough and both work fine.

My impression is not that people are so upset with the swap in combat systems but rather with people excusing the massive issues with game with "it's TB so it's incline". News flash! something being TB doesn't prevent it from being a pile of shit.

 

[PrK]

I didn't expect that TB combat would be what upsets people so much.

For perspective, we were fully expecting an action abomination with real-time combat (no pause), just like all the other AAA "RPG's". And now TB combat is the big problem???

I like both RTwP and TB, by the way. They are similar enough and both work fine.

It's not about TB combat. It's about being a sequel only in name. Were it called anything else I might even be excited for it.
But RPGs are a prestigious genre with a lauded history, and when greed puts its black mark on it, the self-proclaimed fans and connoisseurs should oppose it, not extol it as incline.
"I love Fallout! Three Dog was the best!", proclaims a hardcore Fallout fan. And you sit there scratching your head. That is Baldur's Gate's future, and all I can do is despair.

 

[fantadomat]

When you compare absolutely everthing to your chosen bogeymen it really loses its impact.

Don't compare them to each other,i draw a parallel of the actions of two niche fanatical groups that use the same strategies. And yeah,liberals,sjw and all that progressive tolerant shit should be burned till nothing but ashes remain. It is not a boogyman but a scum that beat the shit with a big piece of wood or a nice iron pipe!

 

[Lacrymas]

If I had to summarize it, 5E is not for munchkins as there are very few build choices you can make, it's about sitting down and playing the game without much crunch.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

It's not about TB combat. It's about being a sequel only in name. Were it called anything else I might even be excited for it.
But RPGs are a prestigious genre with a lauded history, and when greed puts its black mark on it, the self-proclaimed fans and connoisseurs should oppose it, not extol it as incline.
"I love Fallout! Three Dog was the best!", proclaims a hardcore Fallout fan. And you sit there scratching your head. That is Baldur's Gate's future, and all I can do is despair.

This is true, but BG storyline is done and the company that made it is long gone so there couldn't ever be a "real" sequel. Baldur's Gate is just a recognizable name in D&D CRPGs. They could have called it Pools of Radiance instead for all it matters.

Fallout was a little different because Obsidian were right there and fully qualified to make a "real" fallout game but watched their baby get raped instead.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

The degeneration of this forum shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, given that a visual novel won RPG GOTY last year.

Any deviations from the traditions of old should be eradicated with fire!!!

Not if the tradition was shit in the first place.

 

[FranticDistortion]

I didn't expect that TB combat would be what upsets people so much.

For perspective, we were fully expecting an action abomination with real-time combat (no pause), just like all the other AAA "RPG's". And now TB combat is the big problem???

I like both RTwP and TB, by the way. They are similar enough and both work fine.

It is not about TB and RTwP,despite what TB fanatics are spewing. It is about deviation from long established traditions of a franchise with more than six games in that subgenre. You haven't seen me bitching in ATOM,Encased,Colony ship or Solasta threads about being TB,have you?


Any deviations from the traditions of old should be eradicated with fire!!!

Fuck traditions of old, Baldur's Gate evolved into glorious turn-based mode, instead of using outdated mechanics of RTwP which can't even implement basic D&D ruleset, without burning half of it and butchering the rest. You can't have interesting enemies, good bosses, not brain-damaged AI, in RTwP. People who like RTwP like it because it allows to click through combat and get to fucking waifus faster.

Yakuza 7 went Turn-Based, after the whole series being Beat'em for 20 games. TB is superior and can't be held back by your weak old ways, it can evolve and morph into new interesting systems whenever the need arises. Twrps modern representative is a game that plays like shit back in 90-s, which proves that it can't be saved, that it can't evolve and should be left to rot in the annals of time.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Catching up to the reveal. Artstyle and graphics are on point, TB over RTWP is huge incline, and there's no obvious red flags that I can see.

 

[Tyranicon]

How do classes work in 5E ?
Is it a multiclassing orgy like the third edition or do you pick a class and stick to it ?

Depends, if you like WinningTM and making the rest of your party look like useless morons, you multiclass (sorcadins and warlock multis break 5e).

Or you can be less tryhard and just pick fighter and resign yourself to be boring forever.

 

[Reinhardt]

third person and first person rpgs.

No such things exist.

 

[fantadomat]

Let's get real, no Codexer really knows whether 5E (or for that matter 4E) are really "inferior" because they've never played a CRPG that used those systems (with the exception of those few who played the Solasta demo which is no longer available). Everybody's just going off what they've heard from tabletop nerds, but since when did we give a fuck about them?

Speak for yourself, I've played 5e games.

It's a pretty boring system for people who like complex character builds and the old fashioned power curve. On the plus side, it's very easy to get people who don't normally play tabletop into.

The reduced power creep also makes it very easy for GMs to design encounters as even a pack of goblins can be dangerous to relatively high level characters.

Still, Pathfinder and 3.5 all the way.

I never played 5e because all of my friends that play table shit are 3.5 or earlier,like me. All i heard is that it is very dumbed down garbage that doesn't even take alignments in to count. And you could end up with some dumb shit like paladins stealing and raping shit. Anyway,i do try to stay away from the corruption of dumbing down.

It is pretty dumbed down. That does make it useful gateway for getting people into 3.5 or Pathfinder though.

It also is quite interesting to play a tabletop game without high player power growth. Though that in my experience is usually the thing that leads people to want to try 3.5 or PF after getting the taste for tabletop from 5e.

Ahhh when it comes down to p&p games,it all comes down to the company and the DM. Some times you could just roll a level 15-20 characters and just dick around. Having a whole campaign from level 1 to level 20 is a nightmare. People get bored out and the dm burned out,also it is fucking slow,people do love to spend 30 minutes arguing the most trivial action. Thank God that most of my mates are about killing and looting shit and overthinking dumb strategies.

 

[Theodora]

When you compare absolutely everthing to your chosen bogeymen it really loses its impact.

Don't compare them to each other,i draw a parallel of the actions of two niche fanatical groups that use the same strategies. And yeah,liberals,sjw and all that progressive tolerant shit should be burned till nothing but ashes remain. It is not a boogyman but a scum that beat the shit with a big piece of wood or a nice iron pipe!

It's a false dichotomy. A lot of people you'd think SJWs hate progressivism. You're sabotaging your own mental development by relying on these 'univeral' (not.) shorthands.

But more to the point it comes across as lacking perspective when you compare political issues to turn based game mechanics.

 

[DeepOcean]

Let's get real, no Codexer really knows whether 5E (or for that matter 4E) are really "inferior" because they've never played a CRPG that used those systems (with the exception of those few who played the Solasta demo which is no longer available). Everybody's just going off what they've heard from tabletop nerds, but since when did we give a fuck about them?

I read PnP material with frequency and 5e is just DnD for casual RPG players, 3.5 e is still the best DnD got. The only quality is has is that it is better than 4e.

 

[Abu Antar]

I was expecting a reskinned Divinity: Original Sin game with D&D rules with not-so-great writing. It seems that this will be what we get.

It's very likely that I will buy the full release. Early Access does at this point in time not interest me very much.

Can't wait to roll my drunken monk dwarf, punching everything in my way.

 

[Riddler]

If I had to summarize it, 5E is not for munchkins as there are very few build choices you can make, it's about sitting down and playing the game without much crunch.

The lack of variety and depth makes it boring in the long run though, regardless of whether you are a munchkin or not.

 

[passerby]

One thing Larian could've done differently to troll the entire RPG audience is go with RTT system (Real Time Turns).

Basically you queue up your moves during your turn, and the enemy does the same, then you have like 5-6 second turn where everybody is moving at the same time executing commands and you as a player have no control over it. Then it's back to issuing commands again. It has both the franticness and awesome explosions of RTwP and meticulousness of a TB system. And if pretty much hated by everyone. I only saw some JRPGs trying to implement it and it's a majestic chaos. It's a shame they didn't go this route. The butthurt would be glorious and everybody would remember BG3 for years and years

It's called "phase based" and worked perfectly fine in, say, Wizardry 8.
Eliminates the need for many workarounds from TB too.

Worked in W8 mostly because W8 was still an abstract turn based system, not a real time one and phase aspect of it amounted to giving orders to all units at the begining of the round and then watching the round(phase) unfold.
There was nothing simulatneous or real time about the combat, there was a turn order of one action at the time in the phase resolution.
There was also way less actions within a phase of W8 combat, than in a 5s of real time tactical simulation, units would like cast a single spell, or swing a sword 2 times and then the phase ended and you could give new commands.

It's actually terrible in a real time tactical game with movement and positioning.
In Frozen Synapse I've ended most of the time just giving movement and attack orders for max 2s ahead that were reasonably predictable, and was waiting out remaining 3s of 5s phase in some safe "overwatch" position.
FS felt more like a puzzle game most of the time, so i got over it, but I wouldn't want to play a squad tactics game like that.

Just let me pause and change queued orders whenever situation changes, instead of forcing me to watch my units follow outdated orders to their doom for few seconds.
Command queue, action timelines presentation and queued orders simulation like in FS are all great tools to help with planning and synchronization of actions in RT system, but arbitrary 5s command input interwal doesn't make any sense.

 

[Lady_Error]

It's not about TB combat. It's about being a sequel only in name. Were it called anything else I might even be excited for it.
But RPGs are a prestigious genre with a lauded history, and when greed puts its black mark on it, the self-proclaimed fans and connoisseurs should oppose it, not extol it as incline.

I understand that those who expected something close to BG1 & 2 are disappointed. Luckily enough, there are other RPG's that do exactly that.

As far as AAA RPG's are concerned, BG3 is without a doubt incline since it is the first one that is isometric and turn-based.

 

[Tyranicon]

If I had to summarize it, 5E is not for munchkins as there are very few build choices you can make, it's about sitting down and playing the game without much crunch.

The lack of variety and depth makes it boring in the long run though, regardless of whether you are a munchkin or not.

5e is good for people who think champion fighter is an interesting class to play. That being said, I don't mind it either since most of my campaigns devolve in drunken dragon sex orgies more than deep and interesting combat scenarios.

 

[FranticDistortion]

third person and first person rpgs.

No such things exist.

Fallout: New Vegas is both

 

[toroks]

Looks like a good D&D game. Seems like Wizards have done a good job convincing Larian to keep close to the D&D ruleset (earlier interviews suggested they would even ditch miss-rolls). The game looks to be very different from Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 though. Pathfinder Kingmaker (and the coming Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous) are much more similar to BG1/BG2 in gameplay, and so in many ways the real successors to the series.

 

[fantadomat]

third person and first person rpgs.

No such things exist.

 

[Ent]

There is some hilarious stuff in 5e like Hexblade/Paladins that basically use cha for everything.