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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

Grauken

Gourd vibes only
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
12,844
-Give some enemies ... thunderwave
Getting pushed off a cliff by imps in Raphael's basement is the most unfun antifun I had in the game so far.

Insta-kill buttons are rarely fun, especially so when wielded by the enemy but even when wielded by the player. Killing low-level mobs with words of death or similar stuff is ok-ish in some games but when it works on bosses it becomes really unsatisfying (except when it only works when he's weakened, then its good again)

It is especially bad since a push is a bonus action rather than replacing a normal attack. You can usually do your normal attacks and spells and still get your shot at an instakill on top of that. Assuming the terrain has some kind of chasm or steep fall, which many battles do.

The changes Larian made to both Jumping and Pushing are purely to the negative of the game, IMO. Jumping makes positioning much less important as movement is much much easier (ludicrously so) and you can't as effectively use your martial classes to protect your squishier dudes in the back, while pushing is just a very low-cost attempt to either insta-kill someone or put them prone.

Has larian offered any kind of defense or reasoning for these retarded choices?
Their environment design I guess. If you don't position pre-fight you kinda need the jump change because enemies often start in better position than you, up high. I think jumps should be purely vertical and not a replacement for horizontal movement which it often ends up being. I don't mind that change much because everything was designed with it in mind and enemies abuse it as well.
The shove one is a bit more of a problem as there are too many insta death chasms around imo (although getting rid of bosses this way does cut you of good rewards), but it feels pretty great if you just play with surfaces/cloud of daggers. Otherwise it would not be useable in most scenario as attacking with a weapon would be a better choice for the most part.


I am much more annoyed at stuff like the haste change for example.

By making it easier to get out of a bad starting position it also just makes positioning less important, period. And that actually weakens all their level/encounter design. When all it takes to get around the fact that an enemy ranged attacker is on high ground you can't quickly get up to is one bonus action, then that negates the value of having terrain like that in the first place.

Larian did a lot of beautiful level/encounter design. But the fact that jump brings us half-way to having both sides line up and take turns attacking whichever enemy they want to negates a lot of that.

And it isn't all just the player getting out of bad positioning. That also lets the enemy negate your positioning to try to gain an advantage.

I would much rather deal with having to retry some fights where I make adjustments to the initial positioning of my party and keep the importance of the positioning to enhance the level/encounter design.

While not wrong, the combination of bad starting position for the player party and jump to negate that is an inherent thing in the game. Maybe they can try not to do it in the next game but it doesn't seem like something you can easily patch out of the current one and also not very likely as the vast % of the audience will like it except a couple of grognards.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,408
also don't like how the initial fight is much harder than the general himself, guy was a oneshot

The power of turn economy. Any fight against a single boss without loads of legendary resistances, lair actions and multiattacks is doomed to be a free kill.
 

Lagole Gon

Arcane
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Pathfinder: Wrath
Lmao i love Minsc and party reaction to him a Boo
gAnxQY2.png
Bruv, you should check yourself for AIDS if you are shagging her.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
I mean Jaheira doesn't even wear armor, so that goes about as expected.

She's been in countless fights tougher than some cult goons, but still immediately gets ganked.

Yeah she's senile.

guess u could ask her to join your party and make her hide in the corner for the entire fight lol, she needs a buff or something, an elite cult goon is at least 2 times stronger
The fight is actually piss easy according to friend of mine (I know you are reading!). :lol:

As I understand it the trick to that fight is to counterspell the casters, haste your own casters and CC the halberdiers and the other guy that casts the made-up "Black Hole" ability. There are a number of protections that you can cast on Jaheira, though she will negate some of them by attacking, so this shortens the list.
I assume that for this to happen painlessly, you should try to get as far ahead of the harpers as possible when you are going down the corridor.
 

Lagole Gon

Arcane
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Messages
7,451
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Australia
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Pathfinder: Wrath
I mean Jaheira doesn't even wear armor, so that goes about as expected.

She's been in countless fights tougher than some cult goons, but still immediately gets ganked.

Yeah she's senile.

guess u could ask her to join your party and make her hide in the corner for the entire fight lol, she needs a buff or something, an elite cult goon is at least 2 times stronger
The fight is actually piss easy according to friend of mine (I know you are reading!). :lol:

As I understand it the trick to that fight is to counterspell the casters, haste your own casters and CC the halberdiers and the other guy that casts the made-up "Black Hole" ability. There are a number of protections that you can cast on Jaheira, though she will negate some of them by attacking, so this shortens the list.
I assume that for this to happen painlessly, you should try to get as far ahead of the harpers as possible when you are going down the corridor.
This fight is not easy, but I still don't understand why everyone is talking about it like it's a big deal.
I guess I was lucky with rolls and Jaheira AI.
You guys did pickpocket boxed wine from her before the fight, right?

Maybe I had more harpers, because I tried to keep them alive before?
 
Last edited:

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,408
I mean Jaheira doesn't even wear armor, so that goes about as expected.

She's been in countless fights tougher than some cult goons, but still immediately gets ganked.

Yeah she's senile.

guess u could ask her to join your party and make her hide in the corner for the entire fight lol, she needs a buff or something, an elite cult goon is at least 2 times stronger
The fight is actually piss easy according to friend of mine (I know you are reading!). :lol:

As I understand it the trick to that fight is to counterspell the casters, haste your own casters and CC the halberdiers and the other guy that casts the made-up "Black Hole" ability. There are a number of protections that you can cast on Jaheira, though she will negate some of them by attacking, so this shortens the list.
I assume that for this to happen painlessly, you should try to get as far ahead of the harpers as possible when you are going down the corridor.

An easier way is just to kill the cult mobs in the tower before doing the nightsong quest.

They're easy to split up and murder in their rooms, as long as you take care of the wandering spybots. I killed half the tower in my first run before remembering the Act Boss was immortal and I was railroaded into his quest. I was gonna throw him off the tower, but noooo, he has a stupid immunity to that.

The harpers really don't provide that much help (basically none of the AI-controlled mobs in the games do). They're just a liability.
 

janior

Arcane
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Nov 9, 2015
Messages
3,734
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Ashenvale
also don't like how the initial fight is much harder than the general himself, guy was a oneshot

The power of turn economy. Any fight against a single boss without loads of legendary resistances, lair actions and multiattacks is doomed to be a free kill.
when the cutscene with the tentacle played i was thinking "ok now this is where the real boss fight starts" shamefur dispray
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,496
-Give some enemies ... thunderwave
Getting pushed off a cliff by imps in Raphael's basement is the most unfun antifun I had in the game so far.

Insta-kill buttons are rarely fun, especially so when wielded by the enemy but even when wielded by the player. Killing low-level mobs with words of death or similar stuff is ok-ish in some games but when it works on bosses it becomes really unsatisfying (except when it only works when he's weakened, then its good again)

It is especially bad since a push is a bonus action rather than replacing a normal attack. You can usually do your normal attacks and spells and still get your shot at an instakill on top of that. Assuming the terrain has some kind of chasm or steep fall, which many battles do.

The changes Larian made to both Jumping and Pushing are purely to the negative of the game, IMO. Jumping makes positioning much less important as movement is much much easier (ludicrously so) and you can't as effectively use your martial classes to protect your squishier dudes in the back, while pushing is just a very low-cost attempt to either insta-kill someone or put them prone.

Has larian offered any kind of defense or reasoning for these retarded choices?
Their environment design I guess. If you don't position pre-fight you kinda need the jump change because enemies often start in better position than you, up high. I think jumps should be purely vertical and not a replacement for horizontal movement which it often ends up being. I don't mind that change much because everything was designed with it in mind and enemies abuse it as well.
The shove one is a bit more of a problem as there are too many insta death chasms around imo (although getting rid of bosses this way does cut you of good rewards), but it feels pretty great if you just play with surfaces/cloud of daggers. Otherwise it would not be useable in most scenario as attacking with a weapon would be a better choice for the most part.


I am much more annoyed at stuff like the haste change for example.

By making it easier to get out of a bad starting position it also just makes positioning less important, period. And that actually weakens all their level/encounter design. When all it takes to get around the fact that an enemy ranged attacker is on high ground you can't quickly get up to is one bonus action, then that negates the value of having terrain like that in the first place.

Larian did a lot of beautiful level/encounter design. But the fact that jump brings us half-way to having both sides line up and take turns attacking whichever enemy they want to negates a lot of that.

And it isn't all just the player getting out of bad positioning. That also lets the enemy negate your goof positioning that gains you an advantage.

I would much rather deal with having to retry some fights where I make adjustments to the initial positioning of my party and keep the importance of the positioning to enhance the level/encounter design.
Enemies do try and push you into chasms if they can, it would be more noticeable if battles lasted longer.
 

Barbarian

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
7,999
Been running into bugs way too often act 2. Can't even imagine the bugfest that act 3 must be.

Decided to hold out for PS5 release and start a new game(probably first actual patch will be inbound by then).

Anyway, real good game so far and not nearly as woke as some make it out to be. Nothing frontloaded really. Believe it or not I would have hardly noticed it if it weren't for all the hypes and memes preceding the release.

The one thing that really jumps the eye(and that you start noticing after a while) is that nobody ever seems to refer to you as "he" or "she". Faerun is now magical mystical gender neutral land it seems. I suppose that is the way larian got around that "non-binary" option at character creation - they literally wrote and recorded all voiced dialog in a way to ignore refering to PC "gender identity".
 

Barbarian

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
7,999
Difficulty is something of an issue on tactician. There were a few tough fights that call to mind, but if you do a "completionist" run like I was doing it seems you will always be one level above what the fights were designed for - at least that is how it felt. Not only that but you can get some pretty powerful gear loadout very early. Even +1 items are also easy and cheap to come by early and in 5e they make a lot of difference early levels.

Didn't finish act 2 but I imagine you will reach level 12 long before reaching the final act if you do everything.
 

volklore

Arcane
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,834
-Give some enemies ... thunderwave
Getting pushed off a cliff by imps in Raphael's basement is the most unfun antifun I had in the game so far.

Insta-kill buttons are rarely fun, especially so when wielded by the enemy but even when wielded by the player. Killing low-level mobs with words of death or similar stuff is ok-ish in some games but when it works on bosses it becomes really unsatisfying (except when it only works when he's weakened, then its good again)

It is especially bad since a push is a bonus action rather than replacing a normal attack. You can usually do your normal attacks and spells and still get your shot at an instakill on top of that. Assuming the terrain has some kind of chasm or steep fall, which many battles do.

The changes Larian made to both Jumping and Pushing are purely to the negative of the game, IMO. Jumping makes positioning much less important as movement is much much easier (ludicrously so) and you can't as effectively use your martial classes to protect your squishier dudes in the back, while pushing is just a very low-cost attempt to either insta-kill someone or put them prone.

Has larian offered any kind of defense or reasoning for these retarded choices?
Their environment design I guess. If you don't position pre-fight you kinda need the jump change because enemies often start in better position than you, up high. I think jumps should be purely vertical and not a replacement for horizontal movement which it often ends up being. I don't mind that change much because everything was designed with it in mind and enemies abuse it as well.
The shove one is a bit more of a problem as there are too many insta death chasms around imo (although getting rid of bosses this way does cut you of good rewards), but it feels pretty great if you just play with surfaces/cloud of daggers. Otherwise it would not be useable in most scenario as attacking with a weapon would be a better choice for the most part.


I am much more annoyed at stuff like the haste change for example.

By making it easier to get out of a bad starting position it also just makes positioning less important, period. And that actually weakens all their level/encounter design. When all it takes to get around the fact that an enemy ranged attacker is on high ground you can't quickly get up to is one bonus action, then that negates the value of having terrain like that in the first place.

Larian did a lot of beautiful level/encounter design. But the fact that jump brings us half-way to having both sides line up and take turns attacking whichever enemy they want to negates a lot of that.

And it isn't all just the player getting out of bad positioning. That also lets the enemy negate your goof positioning that gains you an advantage.

I would much rather deal with having to retry some fights where I make adjustments to the initial positioning of my party and keep the importance of the positioning to enhance the level/encounter design.
Being able to position characters during dialog is very annoying imo, I really find it stupid. Positioning your chars pre-fight is even worse than having higher mobility since it makes mobility a non-factor for non melee. Even with the jump changes, non martials can struggle positioning properly for optimal concentration defense or range dmg. Unless they have spell slots or some amulet with misty step (which are usually once/24hours), or buffed with extra jump distance (which does take an action: I know you can technically use those pre fight but I don't think it was intended that way).
The crux of it is, Larian makes flashy TB combat and high mobility and lots of actions are part of this. This is likely the reason for their haste change as well (although I disagree with that particular change). In fact that's how they made turn based popular again with normies with DOS1 and 2. Again environments are made for it, and they would probably be much more annoying to navigate without (on top of making movespeed straight up best stat, enjoy the wood elf spam). They don't want you to be stuck just moving for a round and that's how they design everything. Although in this aspect BG3 is much more tame that DoS2 (just like BG3 gameplay could be defined as tamer DoS2 with a core of 5E rules)
 
Last edited:

volklore

Arcane
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,834
Enemies do try and push you into chasms if they can, it would be more noticeable if battles lasted longer.
They also shove their allies to wake them up form sleep for example. Makes sleep less of a free CC early game if you do it close to another enemy that takes a turn right after.
 

koyota

Cipher
Patron
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
230
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
guess u could ask her to join your party and make her hide in the corner for the entire fight lol, she needs a buff or something, an elite cult goon is at least 2 times stronger
The fight is actually piss easy according to friend of mine (I know you are reading!). :lol:

As I understand it the trick to that fight is to counterspell the casters, haste your own casters and CC the halberdiers and the other guy that casts the made-up "Black Hole" ability. There are a number of protections that you can cast on Jaheira, though she will negate some of them by attacking, so this shortens the list.
I assume that for this to happen painlessly, you should try to get as far ahead of the harpers as possible when you are going down the corridor.
Love the the different experiences everyone had on this.

Tactician:
My problem was keeping my party alive, Not Jaheria

Came in after fighting through the Dungeon, Side Entrance with most of my spells depleted and they aggroed on my party instead of the Harpers/ Fist.

Void Bulb -> AOE scrolls -> Cloak Of Dagger -> Hasted Bloodlust Ranger
No idea why but Jaheria transformed to a panther when her HP was low, restored HP and ripped the didn`t die from AOE stragglers to shreds, as hold person worked on the Warden.
 

janior

Arcane
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Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Messages
3,734
Location
Ashenvale
hold person, turn undead, fireball are def mvp spells for my party in this game
 

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