Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Here's an example of what I was talking about:

I'm starting to really regret buying this game. The combat is just way too overwhelming to me. I die in literally every encounter, because they all start with enemies outnumbering me 3 to 1, and me watching passively as they KO my party members. Then I spend rest of the battle helping them, and then I die. I spend more time in this game watching loading screens when reloading saves rather than actually playing the bloody thing.

I really want to get into the game - the plot is interesting and the characters seem to be cool. But it seems like I have absolutely no idea how you are supposed to win *any* battles in this game.

This is not "these games are not my specialty".
This is an almost unbelievable level of ineptitude and unwillingness to understand/correct what you are doing poorly.

 

[Darkwind]

I overheard a conversation on a bus the other day:

Man: I've started playing Baldur's Gate 3
Girl: Hear hear! An intellectual man!
Girl: It's such an insanely good game
Girl: You can have sex with anyone.
Girl: People are doing speedruns to have sex as fast as possible

Did he succeed on his Persuasion roll after that to bang her in the back of the bus?

 

[volklore]

Maybe it inspires some of these fine people to give the earlier titles in the series a shot.

Hope they'll realize TB is best and the eldritch horror that is RTwP will be buried forever

 

[turkishronin]

Did Larian say anything about the reason for level cap?

 

[Hagashager]

Here's an example of what I was talking about:

I'm starting to really regret buying this game. The combat is just way too overwhelming to me. I die in literally every encounter, because they all start with enemies outnumbering me 3 to 1, and me watching passively as they KO my party members. Then I spend rest of the battle helping them, and then I die. I spend more time in this game watching loading screens when reloading saves rather than actually playing the bloody thing.

I really want to get into the game - the plot is interesting and the characters seem to be cool. But it seems like I have absolutely no idea how you are supposed to win *any* battles in this game.

This is not "these games are not my specialty".
This is an almost unbelievable level of ineptitude and unwillingness to understand/correct what you are doing poorly.

Got a few bad emotes for my edgy "people are lazy" post earlier, but I rest my case here. Most people don't want **any** expectation of thought put into their escapism.

I'm not surprised hy that guy's ineptitude. I work with a lot of old farts who absolutely cannot intellectually grasp a concept as basic as "move the arrow to the long grey bar at the center of the screen." These stubborn jackasses can do longform math in their heads and give me crap for being "slow on the numbers" but a god-damned google search is truly, incomprehensibly, deliberately alien to these co-workers. So much so they regress to literal children and start banging their fists on a desk and flipping keyboards while hurling curses.

Yeah, I can 100% believe BG3, colorful, sparkly, gay and whimsical though it may be, is entirely too hard to grasp for your average consumer.

 

[Grauken]

Did Larian say anything about the reason for level cap?

https://www.gamepur.com/news/dd-rul...expansions-difficult-but-they-arent-ruled-out

Vicke explained that it would be quite a challenge for himself and the team to make content that goes beyond the current level 12 cap, as adventures and characters beyond that point become very powerful. In many cases, classes will get almost god-level abilities that we can imagine would be a nightmare to balance. Just consider spells like Wish and Power Word Kill, which in truth have the ability to unbalance or break a D&D game completely, and trying to make that balanced in a game like Baldurs Gate.

He goes on to say, “[Level 12-20] adventures require a different way of doing things, in terms of antagonists you’re going to have to deal with, which require a lot of development to do them properly,” and how trying to create an expansion and overcome those design challenges would be “much more than an expansion in terms of development effort.”

 

[volklore]

Did Larian say anything about the reason for level cap?

https://www.gamepur.com/news/dd-rul...expansions-difficult-but-they-arent-ruled-out

Vicke explained that it would be quite a challenge for himself and the team to make content that goes beyond the current level 12 cap, as adventures and characters beyond that point become very powerful. In many cases, classes will get almost god-level abilities that we can imagine would be a nightmare to balance. Just consider spells like Wish and Power Word Kill, which in truth have the ability to unbalance or break a D&D game completely, and trying to make that balanced in a game like Baldurs Gate.

He goes on to say, “[Level 12-20] adventures require a different way of doing things, in terms of antagonists you’re going to have to deal with, which require a lot of development to do them properly,” and how trying to create an expansion and overcome those design challenges would be “much more than an expansion in terms of development effort.”

They didn't remember giving a decent wis save to rafael so yes maybe making high level encounters would be a bit of a challenge for them.

 

[potatojohn]

Maybe it inspires some of these fine people to give the earlier titles in the series a shot.

Hope they'll realize TB is best and the eldritch horror that is RTwP will be buried forever

TB is boring garbage for IQ 90 retards

- It makes no sense to have it in a video game
- Every encounter takes 10 times longer
- Requires constant clicking rather than being able to just let things happen
- Can't interrupt spell-casters
- etc

 

[Grauken]

Maybe it inspires some of these fine people to give the earlier titles in the series a shot.

Hope they'll realize TB is best and the eldritch horror that is RTwP will be buried forever

TB is boring garbage for IQ 90 retards

- It makes no sense to have it in a video game
- Every encounter takes 10 times longer
- Requires constant clicking rather than being able to just let things happen
- Can't interrupt spell-casters
- etc

Given how successful BG3 has been, expect even fewer RTwP RPGs in the future

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Oh well, RTWP can fuck off.
I even like (FEW) games that used it, but it was always in spite of it rather than because of it.

 

[Arbiter]

As always, Infinity Engine games prove to be prophetic:

I have been thinking about the divinity that flows through your veins.

PST is known for the phrase "Sounds like Oblivion. Who would want that?".

Any gems like that in Icewind Dale?

 

[Desiderius]

This is fair.

The game tells you, through Lae'Zel, that you should seek out her Créche. This being an entry level alternative to seeking out Halsin.

It is much easier to go to the Créche than saving Halsin, it's obvious even. There is no indication that the patrol fight with Lae'Zel's commander on the way to the Créche is incomparably, comically, mean-spiritedly stacked against you. There is no winning that fight before lvl. 4 and even at lvl. 4 you're gonna have your work cut out for you.

The patrol isn't a fluke, Act 1 has tons of "Gotcha!" Fights that will smash you completely and utterly the first go-around.

If you're a cRPG fan this is annoying, but manageable. If you're not, it just feels arbitrary and poorly designed.

That patrol fight is no joke by the way. I find Lae'Zel's entire quest badly designed, and right from the get-go. I beat and destroyed the entire Goblin hoard before attempting the Githyanki fight again, and even then it took multiple tries.

You know what? I incidentally wrote at length about how poorly designed this encounter was, especially in EA, not because it really gave me any problem even back then, but I because was stressing how disingenuous it felt that that very first companion you met in the game never quitted for a second her attempts to pester the the player to rush toward this encounter, with the serious risk to put someone in an unwinnable situation.

Incidentally, that has NOTHING to do with what I was talking about, because if the people I referenced to were complaining about being crushed by the Githyanki patrol at level 3 I would absolutely understand their pain (even if there are ways around it).
But that's not the case.
These fuckers were whining about the goblin patrol in the Blighted Village tearing them a new one, about how HARD it was to get rid of Priestess Gut (are you fucking serious?), one even wrote a endless rant about how miserable it was for him to deal with the entire goblin camp at level 2 (how the fuck did you even get there so malnourished should be the question), etc.

These are not shortcomings of the game itself, frankly.
These are people crying their ineptitude to the heavens and getting fairly catty and over-defensive when they are not receiving the sympathy they were expecting, too.

Newbs are famous for finding new ways to be underleveled and in fact if you waltz right into the fight outside the Chapel or in the Refectory you will get raped by High Ground or that Oil barrel. Those mobs have consumables that you can loot if you get the jump on them but will add insult to injury if things are the other way around. Same with Gob Village and Camp except they're higher up and have more a better consumables and there's more of them if you don't manage aggro.

Which is fine since the appeal of Larian games for people who didn't grow up on the original BG/Gold Box (or worse coin-ops) is getting raped like that for the first time and having to figure out a different approach. Let them help each other do that like we did back in the day. That's the fun. No need for nerfbat *or* mockery, it's the mockery that makes them cry for the nerfbat that kills the appeal.

Later on, yeah, game could use some re-balancing and another difficulty level with the same level of thought put into it.

 

[Desiderius]

In the outer courtyard I called those three ogres you can strike a bargain with.

Did you savescum that Persuasion check?

 

[MerchantKing]

As always, Infinity Engine games prove to be prophetic:

I have been thinking about the divinity that flows through your veins.

PST is known for the phrase "Sounds like Oblivion. Who would want that?".

Any gems like that in Icewind Dale?

Viconia: Jan. While I would be tempted to let the situation play itself out, perhaps it is best if I warn you now.

Jan: Yes, my dusky little margarita? What warning would that be?

Viconia: You have a venomous spider on your neck. A lovely creature, known to cause an agonizing, bloodcurdling death within moments of injecting its nerve poison.

Jan: You know, this reminds me of the time Uncle Scratchy laid me flat with the handle of a horseman's flail. "Look behind you!" he says. "Why? What's behind me?" I say. "A Tiberian Dung Beetle!" he cries, looking frantic. So of course I scream in terror and look behind me... and lost a bag of the most scrumptious turnips ever to come out of Scornubel. Ma Jansen was furious, and the lump was more painful than six weeks with the Calishite itch.

Viconia: Oh, look. There it goes down the back of your shirt

.Jan: And then there was that time I took a drow at his word. "Bifflechips," says I, "you had better be telling the truth." And, of course, he swore up and down that he was. Needless to say, not four weeks later, I was stewing in the lower intestines of a giant cave wyrm without even so much as a torch or a sense of irony. I would have been a goner if gnomes weren't well known for causing severe bouts of intestinal gas.

Viconia: I wouldn't squirm about so much, you foolish jaluk. You're likely to anger it, and I have no spells that can counteract its particular poison.

Jan: Now, if I had a copper for every time— Eh, wait a second. I feel something... who's behind me? What *is* that back there?

Viconia: Did I not try to tell you? No doubt it is sinking its fangs into your gamey flesh as we speak.Jan: What? But I—ouch! AHHHH! AHHHH, NOOOO! I'M TOO YOUNG A GNOME TO DIE! AHHHHH! HELP ME, SOMEONE! AN ANTIDOTE, AN ANTIDOTE! PAIN GIVES ME GAS! AHHHH!I DON"T WANT TO—eh? Wait a minute, that's a fly. A dead fly. You mean I ripped off my own shirt for nothing?

Viconia: Ha ha! Sometimes life has its little rewards. Even for the drow.

Jan: You're a cruel, cruel woman, Viconia. Garl help me, but I am so turned on right now.

Viconia: All right, now I'm leaving.

 

[Desiderius]

Here's an example of what I was talking about:

I'm starting to really regret buying this game. The combat is just way too overwhelming to me. I die in literally every encounter, because they all start with enemies outnumbering me 3 to 1, and me watching passively as they KO my party members. Then I spend rest of the battle helping them, and then I die. I spend more time in this game watching loading screens when reloading saves rather than actually playing the bloody thing.

I really want to get into the game - the plot is interesting and the characters seem to be cool. But it seems like I have absolutely no idea how you are supposed to win *any* battles in this game.

This is not "these games are not my specialty".
This is an almost unbelievable level of ineptitude and unwillingness to understand/correct what you are doing poorly.

I'm sure if you mock them enough they'll get right on that.

 

[Hagashager]

In the outer courtyard I called those three ogres you can strike a bargain with.

Did you savescum that Persuasion check?

No actually, and I had a -1 penalty too because my Char. Is 8. I *just barely* made that check.

In the spirit of the game's intent I've been making an honest attempt not to savescum.

 

[Hagashager]

This is fair.

The game tells you, through Lae'Zel, that you should seek out her Créche. This being an entry level alternative to seeking out Halsin.

It is much easier to go to the Créche than saving Halsin, it's obvious even. There is no indication that the patrol fight with Lae'Zel's commander on the way to the Créche is incomparably, comically, mean-spiritedly stacked against you. There is no winning that fight before lvl. 4 and even at lvl. 4 you're gonna have your work cut out for you.

The patrol isn't a fluke, Act 1 has tons of "Gotcha!" Fights that will smash you completely and utterly the first go-around.

If you're a cRPG fan this is annoying, but manageable. If you're not, it just feels arbitrary and poorly designed.

That patrol fight is no joke by the way. I find Lae'Zel's entire quest badly designed, and right from the get-go. I beat and destroyed the entire Goblin hoard before attempting the Githyanki fight again, and even then it took multiple tries.

You know what? I incidentally wrote at length about how poorly designed this encounter was, especially in EA, not because it really gave me any problem even back then, but I because was stressing how disingenuous it felt that that very first companion you met in the game never quitted for a second her attempts to pester the the player to rush toward this encounter, with the serious risk to put someone in an unwinnable situation.

Incidentally, that has NOTHING to do with what I was talking about, because if the people I referenced to were complaining about being crushed by the Githyanki patrol at level 3 I would absolutely understand their pain (even if there are ways around it).
But that's not the case.
These fuckers were whining about the goblin patrol in the Blighted Village tearing them a new one, about how HARD it was to get rid of Priestess Gut (are you fucking serious?), one even wrote a endless rant about how miserable it was for him to deal with the entire goblin camp at level 2 (how the fuck did you even get there so malnourished should be the question), etc.

These are not shortcomings of the game itself, frankly.
These are people crying their ineptitude to the heavens and getting fairly catty and over-defensive when they are not receiving the sympathy they were expecting, too.

Newbs are famous for finding new ways to be underleveled and in fact if you waltz right into the fight outside the Chapel or in the Refectory you will get raped by High Ground or that Oil barrel. Those mobs have consumables that you can loot if you get the jump on them but will add insult to injury if things are the other way around. Same with Gob Village and Camp except they're higher up and have more a better consumables and there's more of them if you don't manage aggro.

Which is fine since the appeal of Larian games for people who didn't grow up on the original BG/Gold Box (or worse coin-ops) is getting raped like that for the first time and having to figure out a different approach. Let them help each other do that like we did back in the day. That's the fun. No need for nerfbat *or* mockery, it's the mockery that makes them cry for the nerfbat that kills the appeal.

Later on, yeah, game could use some re-balancing and another difficulty level with the same level of thought put into it.

I agree with your sentiment that mocking bad players is shitty. It's why we're being schoolyard asshats *here* and not on whatever subreddit or forums the newcomers are on.

That doesn't change the fact that a lot of players will never get it, and they too will whinge and complain antil Larian bends the knee.

 

[Desiderius]

In the outer courtyard I called those three ogres you can strike a bargain with.

Did you savescum that Persuasion check?

No actually, and I had a -1 penalty too because my Char. Is 8. I *just barely* made that check.

In the spirit of the game's intent I've been making an honest attempt not to savescum.

DC 20 check with -1 CHR is *quite* the stroke of luck.

Hardly the stuff of which facerolls are made.

Likewise if one is as wary as it makes sense to be of relying on those Illithid powers the check to turn the Village neutral is non-trivial for a non-Bard as well. If you fail it you'll be in for some Low Ground hell if you're underleveled. Karlach's Paladin will one-shot your ass even at lvl three.

 

[Desiderius]

This is fair.

The game tells you, through Lae'Zel, that you should seek out her Créche. This being an entry level alternative to seeking out Halsin.

It is much easier to go to the Créche than saving Halsin, it's obvious even. There is no indication that the patrol fight with Lae'Zel's commander on the way to the Créche is incomparably, comically, mean-spiritedly stacked against you. There is no winning that fight before lvl. 4 and even at lvl. 4 you're gonna have your work cut out for you.

The patrol isn't a fluke, Act 1 has tons of "Gotcha!" Fights that will smash you completely and utterly the first go-around.

If you're a cRPG fan this is annoying, but manageable. If you're not, it just feels arbitrary and poorly designed.

That patrol fight is no joke by the way. I find Lae'Zel's entire quest badly designed, and right from the get-go. I beat and destroyed the entire Goblin hoard before attempting the Githyanki fight again, and even then it took multiple tries.

You know what? I incidentally wrote at length about how poorly designed this encounter was, especially in EA, not because it really gave me any problem even back then, but I because was stressing how disingenuous it felt that that very first companion you met in the game never quitted for a second her attempts to pester the the player to rush toward this encounter, with the serious risk to put someone in an unwinnable situation.

Incidentally, that has NOTHING to do with what I was talking about, because if the people I referenced to were complaining about being crushed by the Githyanki patrol at level 3 I would absolutely understand their pain (even if there are ways around it).
But that's not the case.
These fuckers were whining about the goblin patrol in the Blighted Village tearing them a new one, about how HARD it was to get rid of Priestess Gut (are you fucking serious?), one even wrote a endless rant about how miserable it was for him to deal with the entire goblin camp at level 2 (how the fuck did you even get there so malnourished should be the question), etc.

These are not shortcomings of the game itself, frankly.
These are people crying their ineptitude to the heavens and getting fairly catty and over-defensive when they are not receiving the sympathy they were expecting, too.

Newbs are famous for finding new ways to be underleveled and in fact if you waltz right into the fight outside the Chapel or in the Refectory you will get raped by High Ground or that Oil barrel. Those mobs have consumables that you can loot if you get the jump on them but will add insult to injury if things are the other way around. Same with Gob Village and Camp except they're higher up and have more a better consumables and there's more of them if you don't manage aggro.

Which is fine since the appeal of Larian games for people who didn't grow up on the original BG/Gold Box (or worse coin-ops) is getting raped like that for the first time and having to figure out a different approach. Let them help each other do that like we did back in the day. That's the fun. No need for nerfbat *or* mockery, it's the mockery that makes them cry for the nerfbat that kills the appeal.

Later on, yeah, game could use some re-balancing and another difficulty level with the same level of thought put into it.

I agree with your sentiment that mocking bad players is shitty. It's why we're being schoolyard asshats *here* and not on whatever subreddit or forums the newcomers are on.

That doesn't change the fact that a lot of players will never get it, and they too will whinge and complain antil Larian bends the knee.

Unlike the typical phaggot here if you read what they wrote they're blaming themselves, not the game.

That's the first step on the road to mastery and the well-earned enjoyment that comes with it. If player stats are any indication we have a new generation of players joining us on that road.

 

[Hagashager]

In the outer courtyard I called those three ogres you can strike a bargain with.

Did you savescum that Persuasion check?

No actually, and I had a -1 penalty too because my Char. Is 8. I *just barely* made that check.

In the spirit of the game's intent I've been making an honest attempt not to savescum.

DC 20 check with -1 CHR is *quite* the stroke of luck.

Hardly the stuff of which facerolls are made.

If I had failed that check the goblin courtyard would definitely been much harder, and I expected to fail it. So I suppose you can have a victory there in that my experience is partially based on freak RNG.

But you know what? *that* is very PnP.

This past weekend my Star Wars group very nearly TPK'd. It all, very genuinely, came down to one player making a life or death roll. If he succeeded, we'd keep going. If he failed, the GM told us he was ready to put Star Wars to rest anyway and move on.

Homeboy made his check. Even our GM was floored and had renewed vigor to keep the campaign going. The sheer poetry of it all was something quite unique to a PnP RPG.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I think you bleeding hearts are missing the point, because the problem with many of these posts isn't that these players are inexperienced with the system and oblivious of how it works.

The problem is the following pretense that there must be something wrong with the system only because these people can't figure out how it works.
Hell, it goes past not being able to figure out and it's the DEMAND that they shouldn't need to.
The game should bend to be easily malleable even with their non-existing level of mastery.

And this is indeed an attitude that is fully deserving of mockery, for how I see it.

 

[Hagashager]

This is fair.

The game tells you, through Lae'Zel, that you should seek out her Créche. This being an entry level alternative to seeking out Halsin.

It is much easier to go to the Créche than saving Halsin, it's obvious even. There is no indication that the patrol fight with Lae'Zel's commander on the way to the Créche is incomparably, comically, mean-spiritedly stacked against you. There is no winning that fight before lvl. 4 and even at lvl. 4 you're gonna have your work cut out for you.

The patrol isn't a fluke, Act 1 has tons of "Gotcha!" Fights that will smash you completely and utterly the first go-around.

If you're a cRPG fan this is annoying, but manageable. If you're not, it just feels arbitrary and poorly designed.

That patrol fight is no joke by the way. I find Lae'Zel's entire quest badly designed, and right from the get-go. I beat and destroyed the entire Goblin hoard before attempting the Githyanki fight again, and even then it took multiple tries.

You know what? I incidentally wrote at length about how poorly designed this encounter was, especially in EA, not because it really gave me any problem even back then, but I because was stressing how disingenuous it felt that that very first companion you met in the game never quitted for a second her attempts to pester the the player to rush toward this encounter, with the serious risk to put someone in an unwinnable situation.

Incidentally, that has NOTHING to do with what I was talking about, because if the people I referenced to were complaining about being crushed by the Githyanki patrol at level 3 I would absolutely understand their pain (even if there are ways around it).
But that's not the case.
These fuckers were whining about the goblin patrol in the Blighted Village tearing them a new one, about how HARD it was to get rid of Priestess Gut (are you fucking serious?), one even wrote a endless rant about how miserable it was for him to deal with the entire goblin camp at level 2 (how the fuck did you even get there so malnourished should be the question), etc.

These are not shortcomings of the game itself, frankly.
These are people crying their ineptitude to the heavens and getting fairly catty and over-defensive when they are not receiving the sympathy they were expecting, too.

Newbs are famous for finding new ways to be underleveled and in fact if you waltz right into the fight outside the Chapel or in the Refectory you will get raped by High Ground or that Oil barrel. Those mobs have consumables that you can loot if you get the jump on them but will add insult to injury if things are the other way around. Same with Gob Village and Camp except they're higher up and have more a better consumables and there's more of them if you don't manage aggro.

Which is fine since the appeal of Larian games for people who didn't grow up on the original BG/Gold Box (or worse coin-ops) is getting raped like that for the first time and having to figure out a different approach. Let them help each other do that like we did back in the day. That's the fun. No need for nerfbat *or* mockery, it's the mockery that makes them cry for the nerfbat that kills the appeal.

Later on, yeah, game could use some re-balancing and another difficulty level with the same level of thought put into it.

I agree with your sentiment that mocking bad players is shitty. It's why we're being schoolyard asshats *here* and not on whatever subreddit or forums the newcomers are on.

That doesn't change the fact that a lot of players will never get it, and they too will whinge and complain antil Larian bends the knee.

Unlike the typical phaggot here if you read what they wrote they're blaming themselves, not the game.

That is not true and you know it. We're both going to the same places here.

Most of these guys on reddit are absolutely blaming the game, demanding nerfs or otherwise resorting to calling cRPG fans weird or sweaty for being decent at these types of games.

Newcomers recognizing their failings are admirable, but not the guys making silly mistakes and posting rants about.

As an aside, I actually respected you standing up for some of them. That was real big of you, right up until you churlishly reacted with an "up yours" emote. Guess I shouldn't expect much from this place.

 

[Desiderius]

I think you bleeding hearts are missing the point, because the problem with many of these posts isn't that these players are inexperienced with the system and oblivious of how it works.

The problem is the following pretense that there must be something wrong with the system only because these people can't figure out how it works.
Hell, it goes past not being able to figure out and it's the DEMAND that they shouldn't need to.
The game should bend to be easily malleable even with their non-existing level of mastery.

And this is indeed an attitude that is fully deserving of mockery, for how I see it.

Which is why I incessantly mock it here.

But that isn't what "this kind of game just isn't my specialty" means. Don't worry, Larian has stuck to their guns all the way to the bank, they didn't nerf Fort Joy and they won't be nerfing that part of the game. Remains to be seen if they can handle a mid/lategame well for the first time.

 

[Desiderius]

You don't know what other people will never get.

That's what the "up yours" means. That's Soyerism and that's how we get games pre-nerfed like Deadfire was at release. Larian doesn't do that. Rants are the sound a changing mind makes as long as someone is willing to hold their ground in the face of it. Painful process but worth encouraging.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

It's not a new problem. Remember Josh Sawyer's comments on playtesters. It even happened during the so called golden age of crpgs. However, in this day and age, you have the notion that a game has to be for everyone. In truth it tells you why some people find the combat in crpgs to be an obstacle, they're there for the story, the lore, the characters, etc. I think these people are picking the game up because it's a hit and because playing an rpg makes you appear as "smart". Because there's lots of numbers in rpgs, right?