Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

[Devastator]

Also dominating sales:

Doesn't mean the product is good.

So metaphorically speaking cRPGs = fast food. I see. Well, then a) fuck off b) BG3 clearly is better than the competition rightfully so.

CRPGs resemble gourmet meals. Rich, immersive, demanding the investment of time and engagement. CRPGs demand patience. Their complex storylines, big dick worlds, and meaningful choices translate into savoring prestigious flavors.

Action (RP) games are more like fast food. Quick gratification, limited depth, and bite-sized enjoyment. Easy to get into for rapid consumption.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I can't tell if Codex actually likes the game or hates it, can anyone summarize the codex consensus?

Lessons developers should learn from Baldur's Gate 3:

• Tactical, turn-based combat sells
• An RPG should have at least a semblance of exploration
• A considerable amount of interactivity with the world can be accomplished, even in a game with turn-based combat
• Quests can have various Choices & Consequences associated with them, and there can also be consequences for player actions outside quests
• RPGs can have a fairly non-linear structure

Lessons developers will learn from Baldur's Gate 3:

• Sex sells, especially with viral marketing
• Aside from a single player-generated character, the party members should be pre-generated and have ludicrously convoluted backstories
• Vast amounts of money should be spent on voice-acting and motion-capture, especially for those pre-generated companions
• Embrace the most generic fantasy setting possible
• Players don't care about basing your game on a poor ruleset, such as "D&D 5th edition"

Spoiler

Also,

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

I can't tell if Codex actually likes the game or hates it, can anyone summarize the codex consensus?

Lessons developers should learn from Baldur's Gate 3:

• Tactical, turn-based combat sells
• An RPG should have at least a semblance of exploration
• A considerable amount of interactivity with the world can be accomplished, even in a game with turn-based combat
• Quests can have various Choices & Consequences associated with them, and there can also be consequences for player actions outside quests
• RPGs can have a fairly non-linear structure

Lessons developers will learn from Baldur's Gate 3:

• Sex sells, especially with viral marketing
• Aside from a single player-generated character, the party members should be pre-generated and have ludicrously convoluted backstories
• Vast amounts of money should be spent on voice-acting and motion-capture, especially for those pre-generated companions
• Embrace the most generic fantasy setting possible
• Players don't care about basing your game on a poor ruleset, such as "D&D 5th edition"

Spoiler

Also,

About the VAs, money might be a factor, but I don't know if that's just it. The whole audio department in this game is pretty damn good, voices and music. Maybe just picking people with skills, directors who can direct, and leaders who lead, makes a whole world of difference when it comes to the end product. Who knew!

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Lessons developers will learn from Baldur's Gate 3:

And that Diversity sells big. Like that line Astarion's actor said at the awards about everyone being represented.

Why? Because that's the demographic with lots of money to burn and a willingness to burn it.

https://www.nielsen.com/insights/2015/us-lgbt-shoppers-make-more-trips-spend-more-than-average/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/katieb...ing-lgbtq-consumer-landscape/?sh=370d82647faf

Just slap a rainbow sticker on the side and they'll shell out for your game.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Of course they're a big market. A bunch of hedonistic and self centered people who have no kids and no way to have them, and because of this a metric ton of money to burn. Gays and furries are capitalism's wet dream.

 

[quaesta]

Have you looked outside lately?

Yes. I see a bunch of shitpulls. God bless Detroit

 

[Lagole Gon]

I can't tell if Codex actually likes the game or hates it, can anyone summarize the codex consensus?

Arguably the best encounter design in the genre.
Arguably the cringiest writing in the genre.

Act 1 polished beyond belief (if you're not a murderhobo).
Rushed and unfinished late game.

Larian reached the highest highs and the lowest lows with this one.

 

[Cryomancer]

Rushed and unfinished late game.

I don't think so. I mean, one thing is to compare with the ideal perfect late game. Other thing is to compare with other games. The late game of BG3 don't fell as unfinished as house at edge of time for eg.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Rushed and unfinished late game.

I don't think so. I mean, one thing is to compare with the ideal perfect late game. Other thing is to compare with other games. The late game of BG3 don't fell as unfinished as house at edge of time for eg.

Owlcat is now the standard for average amount of bugs on release and shitty late game?
...
Oh wow.

 

[Swen]

I can't tell if Codex actually likes the game or hates it, can anyone summarize the codex consensus?

Arguably the best encounter design in the genre.
Arguably the cringiest writing in the genre.

Act 1 polished beyond belief (if you're not a murderhobo).
Rushed and unfinished late game.

Larian reached the highest highs and the lowest lows with this one.

Bullshit.

Act 2 and 3 are great. Only Act 3 had some technical issues but those are almost all resolved now with patch 5.

ANd your writing is also cringe.

 

[Cryomancer]

Owlcat is now the standard for average amount of bugs on release and shitty late game?

Nope. But lategame of RPG's being buggy and unfinished is very common. See the last chapter of Gothic 2, even in early 90, see Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager.

I know that I will get a lot of hate by saying it but imo Act 2 > Act 3 > Act 1. I really enjoyed investigating a land plagued with a unique "darkness curse". The freedom to do many thing in act 3 was also great, in my Dark Urge run, I missed a lot of things. And act 1 despite being very polished is low level D&D which is not fun for me.

 

[Yosharian]

Still dominating sales.

Congrats to Owlcuck games for entering the big boy list.

Also dominating sales:

Doesn't mean the product is good.

Everything on that list barely qualifies as food frankly

 

[Yosharian]

I can't tell if Codex actually likes the game or hates it, can anyone summarize the codex consensus?

Arguably the best encounter design in the genre.
Arguably the cringiest writing in the genre.

Act 1 polished beyond belief (if you're not a murderhobo).
Rushed and unfinished late game.

Larian reached the highest highs and the lowest lows with this one.

Bullshit.

Act 2 and 3 are great. Only Act 3 had some technical issues but those are almost all resolved now with patch 5.

ANd your writing is also cringe.

Calling Act 3 great is a bit of a stretch tbh

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

Lessons developers should learn from Baldur's Gate 3:

• Tactical, turn-based combat sells
• An RPG should have at least a semblance of exploration
• A considerable amount of interactivity with the world can be accomplished, even in a game with turn-based combat
• Quests can have various Choices & Consequences associated with them, and there can also be consequences for player actions outside quests
• RPGs can have a fairly non-linear structure

Lessons developers will learn from Baldur's Gate 3:

• Sex sells, especially with viral marketing
• Aside from a single player-generated character, the party members should be pre-generated and have ludicrously convoluted backstories
• Vast amounts of money should be spent on voice-acting and motion-capture, especially for those pre-generated companions
• Embrace the most generic fantasy setting possible
• Players don't care about basing your game on a poor ruleset, such as "D&D 5th edition"

I kind of agree with this, the issue I have with this reasoning is just that most of these issues could've been taken with the witcher 3 just as well.
It's kind of damning that the combat is fun as hell, and while some of the issues were inevitable(Hasbro wasn't going to give them rights to anything but 5E so people who autistically complain about it are just delusional), there's a lot of fun to be had with it. There's also some quest and area design that goes beyond the usual cargo cult of deciding everything in dialogues/predefined interaction and instead lets you just use the tools you were given(the simplest example - need to pull lever out of reach? summon magic hand exists).
Meanwhile whenever anyone talks about it it's the constant:
Le shadowhag
Le karlach
Le gay
Le bear sex

Fawning over or hating it. As if the core of the game didn't exist.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I kind of agree with this, the issue I have with this reasoning is just that most of these issues could've been taken with the witcher 3 just as well.
It's kind of damning that the combat is fun as hell, and while some of the issues were inevitable(Hasbro wasn't going to give them rights to anything but 5E so people who autistically complain about it are just delusional), there's a lot of fun to be had with it.

Although Larian obtained the actual license to use "D&D 5th edition" rules and the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, they were preceded by Solasta electing to use the same ruleset without any license from Hasbro. It's utterly pointless for a developer to hamstring themselves in this manner, but the success of BG3 will undoubtedly lead to other developers doing so, despite also not having any actual license or other agreement from Hasbro that would justify it, instead of either basing their game on a better version of D&D/AD&D or simply creating their own system.

Among other issues:

• The single worst aspect is the limitation to 4 party members, given the inherent value to turn-based, tactical combat in having a larger number of characters for more class variety and tactical options.
• "D&D 5th edition" attempts to compensate for the small number of party members by turning from heroic fantasy into the superhero genre, where all characters, regardless of class, quickly accrue various zany abilities, which however are arbitrarily limited to one use per battle, short rest, or long rest.
• There is the idiocy of the "short rest" mechanic, in which characters inexplicably recover half their hit points and certain abilities, by taking a quick break, which for some reason can only be performed twice in between a "long rest".
• The concentration mechanic means that a large portion of spells (and non-spell abilities) are exclusive to each other, in that a caster can only have one spell/ability requiring concentration active at one time. This inevitably results in nearly all concentration spells/abilities being disregarded in favor of one or two that are most powerful for a given class and level.
• Characters are nonsensically allowed to level up in any class, meaning a character can suddenly gain all sorts of abilities associated with another class by taking one level in it, which permits all sorts of overpowered, game-breaking combinations.
• Attunement was dropped by Larian in BG3 but kept by Tactical Adventures in Solasta; many magic items require attunement to a specific PC, and each PC can have only two items attuned at one time, rendering many magic items superfluous.

 

[abija]

The game pretty much pushes long rests on you, since a lot of plot and character events happen only during long rest and you can only get one per.
For example, if you don't long rest dark urge will miss out on his invis cape and asstarion won't reveal himself to be a vampire.

You can trigger them by resting without using food. Not saying it makes sense, just a way to fix that shit if you want to rest only when needed.

 

[Swen]

I kind of agree with this, the issue I have with this reasoning is just that most of these issues could've been taken with the witcher 3 just as well.
It's kind of damning that the combat is fun as hell, and while some of the issues were inevitable(Hasbro wasn't going to give them rights to anything but 5E so people who autistically complain about it are just delusional), there's a lot of fun to be had with it.

Although Larian obtained the actual license to use "D&D 5th edition" rules and the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, they were preceded by Solasta electing to use the same ruleset without any license from Hasbro. It's utterly pointless for a developer to hamstring themselves in this manner, but the success of BG3 will undoubtedly lead to other developers doing so, despite also not having any actual license or other agreement from Hasbro that would justify it, instead of either basing their game on a better version of D&D/AD&D or simply creating their own system.

Among other issues:

• The single worst aspect is the limitation to 4 party members, given the inherent value to turn-based, tactical combat in having a larger number of characters for more class variety and tactical options.
• "D&D 5th edition" attempts to compensate for the small number of party members by turning from heroic fantasy into the superhero genre, where all characters, regardless of class, quickly accrue various zany abilities, which however are arbitrarily limited to one use per battle, short rest, or long rest.
• There is the idiocy of the "short rest" mechanic, in which characters inexplicably recover half their hit points and certain abilities, by taking a quick break, which for some reason can only be performed twice in between a "long rest".
• The concentration mechanic means that a large portion of spells (and non-spell abilities) are exclusive to each other, in that a caster can only have one spell/ability requiring concentration active at one time. This inevitably results in nearly all concentration spells/abilities being disregarded in favor of one or two that are most powerful for a given class and level.
• Characters are nonsensically allowed to level up in any class, meaning a character can suddenly gain all sorts of abilities associated with another class by taking one level in it, which permits all sorts of overpowered, game-breaking combinations.
• Attunement was dropped by Larian in BG3 but kept by Tactical Adventures in Solasta; many magic items require attunement to a specific PC, and each PC can have only two items attuned at one time, rendering many magic items superfluous.

You make some good points but I still prefer concentration mechanic to limit buff stacking. Sadly no mechanic is perfect.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Just add the possibility of additional "concentration slots". Duh.
Class progression or attribute related.

 

[Black]

Arcanum has concentration slots tied to Int, superior RPG

Btw, I heard there were whole camps where they taught people how to concentrate but it turned out to be fake.

 

[toro]

The game is good for one playthrough but not good enough for another one.

I don't see me ever again playing the slog from Act 2 and 3 (I actually hate Act 2 more than 3).

Anyway, the reason for this pointless post is that imho the encounters design is shit.

Yeah, early game there are a couple of good fights but late game the vast majority of encounters are just repetitive trash encounters (garbage).

"Arguably the best encounter design in the genre." statement is pure retardation. It invalidates everything following it.

 

[Cryomancer]

still prefer concentration mechanic to limit buff stacking

Just have the enemy cast dispel against the player. OR a effect like "magical poisoning", when someone has too much magic inside his body and he can't sustain more buffs, similar to poison in TW1/2/3 or gurps style concentration. But the removal of counter measures also lead to the removal of nasty abilities from monsters and from other stuff. In AD&D 2e, you can be a lv 20 barbarian, poison can still kill you.

Calling Act 3 great is a bit of a stretch tbh

Is a very open act and reminded me a lot about BG2' act 2.

 

[Lagole Gon]

"Arguably the best encounter design in the genre." statement is pure retardation. It invalidates everything following it.

If I required commentary from you, mongrel, I would tug on your collar or blow a dog whistle to gain your attention.

But if any humans in this thread want to discuss encounter design I welcome a constructive discussion and examples of games that did it better.

 

[Reyvik]

If I required commentary from you, mongrel, I would tug on your collar or blow a dog whistle to gain your attention.

But if any humans in this thread want to discuss encounter design I welcome a constructive discussion and examples of games that did it better.

I remember shadowrun having good encounter design. Though not in every installment

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Didn't the NPCs in Bioware games require you to make direct advances though?

Zevran was the infamous one in Dragon Age Origins. He would say something like "I just wanted you to know I think you're pretty great," and if you responded "I feel the same way", BAM, gay elf sex.

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

Targeted at bioware fans no doubt