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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
These games are now designed to default to single-classing to reduce barriers to entry/replayability.
I am not exactly certain how multi-classing is a barrier to entry though. On that line I don't think even Pathfinder is designed around multi classing unless you are extremely fixated on absolute optimum gameplay.
Because getting the right mix in rulesets where it was rewarded was a laborious process and/or you had to look them up on Gamefaqs and you didn't really have enough info to evaluate your options. At least with Gamefaqs you usually had some autist who'd played the game in depth but now with Fextradeath et al you've got some ethical journoclown who plays a game a week and is talking out xir's ass.

Multiclassing... isn't really rewarded in these newer rulesets but grognards are set in their ways so keep beating their heads against that wall, usually fruitlessly. Time is better spent learning each class and how to get the most out of its development and mastering party dynamics.
Alright dude. Never did like the concept of multiclassing myself anyway so carry on.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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Multiclassing... isn't really rewarded in these newer rulesets but grognards are set in their ways so keep beating their heads against that wall, usually fruitlessly. Time is better spent learning each class and how to get the most out of its development and mastering party dynamics.
Multiclassing was broken by Advanced "Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition", which allowed characters to take a level in another class upon level-up, rather than even restricting to proper multi-classing (or dual-classing). I suspect Larian implemented its own rule changes to make this worse than would otherwise exist in "Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition", but the problem with the new type of multi-classing still exists there even if not as severe as in "3rd edition". Anyone playing BG3 can conduct a quick search to find broken class/level combinations, and of course the game allows the player to endlessly respec the PC (and other party members) for a pittance of money.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
These games are now designed to default to single-classing to reduce barriers to entry/replayability.
I am not exactly certain how multi-classing is a barrier to entry though. On that line I don't think even Pathfinder is designed around multi classing unless you are extremely fixated on absolute optimum gameplay.
Because getting the right mix in rulesets where it was rewarded was a laborious process and/or you had to look them up on Gamefaqs and you didn't really have enough info to evaluate your options. At least with Gamefaqs you usually had some autist who'd played the game in depth but now with Fextradeath et al you've got some ethical journoclown who plays a game a week and is talking out xir's ass.

Multiclassing... isn't really rewarded in these newer rulesets but grognards are set in their ways so keep beating their heads against that wall, usually fruitlessly. Time is better spent learning each class and how to get the most out of its development and mastering party dynamics.
Eh, there are still low hanging fruits to be harvested.
Trouble is, none of them trumps the Extra Attack at level 5 (or 3rd level spells). So you're basically in Act 2 when multiclassing becomes viable. And late in this Act /early in Act 3 by the time it bears fruit.
Then there are strong benefits from starting with certain classes you might actually prefer to add later...

Basically the multiclassing system of BG3 heavily encourages frequent respeccing (which the game freely permits).
Single class is cleaner, has a more clear progression and is more orderly / doesn't feel dirty.

Edit: And is more then strong enough to finish the game.
 
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Orud

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
Multiclassing was broken by Advanced "Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition", which allowed characters to take a level in another class upon level-up, rather than even restricting to proper multi-classing (or dual-classing). I suspect Larian implemented its own rule changes to make this worse than would otherwise exist in "Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition", but the problem with the new type of multi-classing still exists there even if not as severe as in "3rd edition". Anyone playing BG3 can conduct a quick search to find broken class/level combinations, and of course the game allows the player to endlessly respec the PC (and other party members) for a pittance of money.
As I play more and more systems, the more and more I miss AD&D's multiclass/dual class systems. Am I crazy for really liking the way multi/dual class worked and that different classes had different experience curves?

These combinations felt like unique classes and playstyles. These freeform multiclass approaches feel ridiculous and promotes munchkin builds (even more). What in gods name is a lvl1 fighter/lvl1 cleric/lvl3 paladin/lvl 3 sorc/lvl4 barb/lvl3 rogue/lvl2 bard/lvl3 monk supposed to be anyway (apart from potentially a bad build)?
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Multiclassing was broken by Advanced "Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition", which allowed characters to take a level in another class upon level-up, rather than even restricting to proper multi-classing (or dual-classing). I suspect Larian implemented its own rule changes to make this worse than would otherwise exist in "Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition", but the problem with the new type of multi-classing still exists there even if not as severe as in "3rd edition". Anyone playing BG3 can conduct a quick search to find broken class/level combinations, and of course the game allows the player to endlessly respec the PC (and other party members) for a pittance of money.
As I play more and more systems, the more and more I miss AD&D's multiclass/dual class systems. Am I crazy for really liking the way multi/dual class worked and that different classes had different experience curves?
Well, I wouldn't go that far.

But I did like the cleaner/simpler multiclassing system from Deadfire.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
ridiculous and promotes munchkin builds (even more). What in gods name is a lvl1 fighter/lvl1 cleric/lvl3 paladin/lvl 3 sorc/lvl4 barb/lvl3 rogue/lvl2 bard/lvl3 monk supposed to be anyway ?
Not enough barbarian levels, for a start.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Hey, I'll be the first to say that 3E style multiclassing is great fun.

But honestly maybe a bit much sometimes.
And requires a lot of in-depth mechanical knowledge to properly take advantage of.
Therefore ill suited for the wide audience, I guess.
 

Cryomancer

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Frostfell
. Grognards will start defending 3E+ multiclassing after this post.

Nope. Deadfire multiclassing was bad BUT this doesn't mean that 3e multiclassing is good. In fact, is a huge decline over AD&D 2e.

It rarely is used for RP and mostly is used to make pun pun builds. What I mean by RP? If I'm DMing a 3.5e game set in Thay and a wizard decide to join the academy and try to become a Red Wizard of thay, by all mean, I would allow him to pick some levels in this prestige class but he also will gonna get all social obligations, privileges and responsibilities of being an red wizard. In NWN2 in other hands, you can level as an Red Wizard of Thay in Neverwinter, despite never having steeping a foot in Thay. It makes no sense.

And 5e is even worse. You can make a Paladin of a lawful good deity and make a pact with an chaotic evil demon or be a Barbarian and a Monk at the same time, despite monk being all about strict discipline and Barbarians, all about savagery.

Every splatbook in 2e that I saw who talks about kits say that kits needs to make sense for the character that you are building and for the campaign.

Am I crazy for really liking the way multi/dual class worked and that different classes had different experience curves?

I like it too. Everyone leveling at the same speed was a decline.
 

haraw

Educated
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
96
Oh no no no dragon's dogma bros?


afbeelding.png


BG3 just keeps on winning

Many people like DD2 but is not buying it due the microtransaction hell + denuvo + other stuff.

While DD2 launched with 21 DLC's to buy, BG3 :

Larian Started Work on Baldur's Gate 3 DLC, Then Canceled It: 'The Studio Was Elated'​

https://www.ign.com/articles/larian...-3-dlc-then-canceled-it-the-studio-was-elated

___________________________________________________

What I think that Larian could do is to as DLC is to "homebrew" DOS1/2 skills as subclasses and spells or abilities for 5e.

Larian could homebrew "Hidrosophist" skills from DOS1, making a wizard or sorcerer subclass, pick the novice tier skill and making it tier 1/2 spells. Picking the adept and making it tier 3/4 spells and the Master skills become tier 5/6 spells.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2378500/Baldurs_Gate_3__Digital_Deluxe_Edition_DLC/

This is basically the same as Dragon's Dogma 2's "MTX hell".
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Multiclassing was broken by Advanced "Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition", which allowed characters to take a level in another class upon level-up, rather than even restricting to proper multi-classing (or dual-classing). I suspect Larian implemented its own rule changes to make this worse than would otherwise exist in "Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition", but the problem with the new type of multi-classing still exists there even if not as severe as in "3rd edition". Anyone playing BG3 can conduct a quick search to find broken class/level combinations, and of course the game allows the player to endlessly respec the PC (and other party members) for a pittance of money.
As I play more and more systems, the more and more I miss AD&D's multiclass/dual class systems. Am I crazy for really liking the way multi/dual class worked and that different classes had different experience curves?

These combinations felt like unique classes and playstyles. These freeform multiclass approaches feel ridiculous and promotes munchkin builds (even more). What in gods name is a lvl1 fighter/lvl1 cleric/lvl3 paladin/lvl 3 sorc/lvl4 barb/lvl3 rogue/lvl2 bard/lvl3 monk supposed to be anyway (apart from potentially a bad build)?
Potentially?

My people out here crucifying themselves on a cross of maxminning. Freedom’s just another word for sucking ass.

The experience curve is figuring out how to suck less. Too much freedumb = too many blind alleys/local maxima to get stuck in.

Haplo is right but time and thought invested in avoiding the multiclass self-nerf is better spent on itemization, party dynamics, and since Larian frontloads their content so hard to rake in all that cash they famously don’t care about maybe moving on to the next game.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
ZOMG when I get to the endgame this build will Schleigh!

What endgame?

MMO leetraiding has fried your brains.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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Messages
12,056
Eh, there are still low hanging fruits to be harvested.
Trouble is, none of them trumps the Extra Attack at level 5 (or 3rd level spells). So you're basically in Act 2 when multiclassing becomes viable. And late in this Act /early in Act 3 by the time it bears fruit.
Then there are strong benefits from starting with certain classes you might actually prefer to add later...

Basically the multiclassing system of BG3 heavily encourages frequent respeccing (which the game freely permits).
Single class is cleaner, has a more clear progression and is more orderly / doesn't feel dirty.

Edit: And is more then strong enough to finish the game.
As to whether multi-classing is necessary in BG3, it obviously isn't for a skilled player, who can win all combats, even on the hardest difficulty level, with single-classed characters even while refraining from the many means of exploiting the systems created or modified by Larian. However, multi-classing is not merely available in BG3, as mandated by "D&D 5th edition" rules, but was intentionally made easier by Larian both from removal of whatever restrictions existed in the ruleset and by the introduction of respeccing (and the cheapness thereof). Due to the respeccing, the benefit of a second attack or third-level spells from a fifth-level single-classed character does not require that the player refrain from multiclassing characters who have a total level of 2, 3, or 4. Instead, the player can choose an optimal multi-classed combination each time a character gains a level, by respeccing each time.

Moreover, even if the player did refrain from respeccing characters through 5th level, the characters should be at least 7th level just from a completionist playthrough of Act I, which means multiclassing would still occur for over five-eighths of the game (given the relative differences in length between the three Acts).
 

Haplo

Prophet
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Due to the respeccing, the benefit of a second attack or third-level spells from a fifth-level single-classed character does not require that the player refrain from multiclassing characters who have a total level of 2, 3, or 4. Instead, the player can choose an optimal multi-classed combination each time a character gains a level, by respeccing each time.
Indeed. And I see this as a huge immersion breaker and an extremly gamey mechanics.
Of which I am guilty of abusing - even if this does not sit well with me.

Still great game, though.
 

Nortar

Arcane
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Basically the multiclassing system of BG3 heavily encourages frequent respeccing (which the game freely permits).
Single class is cleaner, has a more clear progression and is more orderly / doesn't feel dirty.
As to whether multi-classing is necessary in BG3, it obviously isn't for a skilled player, who can win all combats, even on the hardest difficulty level, with single-classed characters even while refraining from the many means of exploiting the systems created or modified by Larian. However, multi-classing is not merely available in BG3, as mandated by "D&D 5th edition" rules, but was intentionally made easier by Larian both from removal of whatever restrictions existed in the ruleset and by the introduction of respeccing (and the cheapness thereof). Due to the respeccing, the benefit of a second attack or third-level spells from a fifth-level single-classed character does not require that the player refrain from multiclassing characters who have a total level of 2, 3, or 4. Instead, the player can choose an optimal multi-classed combination each time a character gains a level, by respeccing each time.

Moreover, even if the player did refrain from respeccing characters through 5th level, the characters should be at least 7th level just from a completionist playthrough of Act I, which means multiclassing would still occur for over five-eighths of the game (given the relative differences in length between the three Acts).
I wonder if anyone from the fun-police squad who get outraged by the option to save whenever you want sinful save-scumming,
would get an aneurysm after learning about this kind of meta-munchkinism.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1086940/view/4197992527772050974
Hotfix #25 Now Live!
Version Number: v4.1.1.5022896

Hello everyone,

We’ve got a new hotfix for you today, taking care of a handful of bugs and glitches. It would appear that Us is causing everybody a few sleepless nights, and that troublesome fleshy blob has been continuing to block some players from taking a Short Rest. We’ve given him some lessons in decorum, and leaving a party at the appropriate time, rather than hanging around like a loathsome houseguest, eating all the cheese from the fridge.

As with previous updates, if you’re experiencing any issues after installing this latest hotfix, please check whether the issue persists with all mods uninstalled. If you continue to experience this issue after uninstalling mods, please contact our support team and submit a full report to help us solve your issue.

We continue to work on further fixes and patches, but in the meantime, thank you for playing Baldur’s Gate 3!


FIXES
  • Fixed a rare code crash when loading the Act I region.
  • Fixed a rare code crash when hovering over enemies.
  • Fixed a potential crash when loading a savegame made while trading.
  • Fixed Us not wanting to leave the party after the tutorial, causing some more cases where Short Rest could get blocked. Also made further fixes to Us being in the party when it shouldn't be.
  • Fixed item splitting not working in trade when moving items from your companions' inventories.
  • Fixed the context menu not showing trade actions on items that are in a companion's inventory.
 

agris

Arcane
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Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,877
As I play more and more systems, the more and more I miss AD&D's multiclass/dual class systems. Am I crazy for really liking the way multi/dual class worked and that different classes had different experience curves?

These combinations felt like unique classes and playstyles. These freeform multiclass approaches feel ridiculous and promotes munchkin builds (even more). What in gods name is a lvl1 fighter/lvl1 cleric/lvl3 paladin/lvl 3 sorc/lvl4 barb/lvl3 rogue/lvl2 bard/lvl3 monk supposed to be anyway (apart from potentially a bad build)?
This plus the level1npc mod, SCS and excellent vanilla itemization is what gave BG2 so much replayability for me. You had such a deep roster of builds and party combinations available to you, with tactics significantly impacted by how you gear everyone. The delayed gratification of builds coming online that involve dual and multi classing in the 2E system combined with all the great set piece fights…. ohgoditzheaven

3e was such massive decline
 

La vie sexuelle

Learned
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Jun 10, 2023
Messages
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La Rochelle
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1086940/view/4197992527772050974
Hotfix #25 Now Live!
Version Number: v4.1.1.5022896

Hello everyone,

We’ve got a new hotfix for you today, taking care of a handful of bugs and glitches. It would appear that Us is causing everybody a few sleepless nights, and that troublesome fleshy blob has been continuing to block some players from taking a Short Rest. We’ve given him some lessons in decorum, and leaving a party at the appropriate time, rather than hanging around like a loathsome houseguest, eating all the cheese from the fridge.

As with previous updates, if you’re experiencing any issues after installing this latest hotfix, please check whether the issue persists with all mods uninstalled. If you continue to experience this issue after uninstalling mods, please contact our support team and submit a full report to help us solve your issue.

We continue to work on further fixes and patches, but in the meantime, thank you for playing Baldur’s Gate 3!


FIXES
  • Fixed a rare code crash when loading the Act I region.
  • Fixed a rare code crash when hovering over enemies.
  • Fixed a potential crash when loading a savegame made while trading.
  • Fixed Us not wanting to leave the party after the tutorial, causing some more cases where Short Rest could get blocked. Also made further fixes to Us being in the party when it shouldn't be.
  • Fixed item splitting not working in trade when moving items from your companions' inventories.
  • Fixed the context menu not showing trade actions on items that are in a companion's inventory.

MINTHARA FIX WHEN
 

ropetight

Savant
Joined
Dec 9, 2018
Messages
1,099
Location
Lower Wolffuckery
As I play more and more systems, the more and more I miss AD&D's multiclass/dual class systems. Am I crazy for really liking the way multi/dual class worked and that different classes had different experience curves?

These combinations felt like unique classes and playstyles. These freeform multiclass approaches feel ridiculous and promotes munchkin builds (even more). What in gods name is a lvl1 fighter/lvl1 cleric/lvl3 paladin/lvl 3 sorc/lvl4 barb/lvl3 rogue/lvl2 bard/lvl3 monk supposed to be anyway (apart from potentially a bad build)?
This plus the level1npc mod, SCS and excellent vanilla itemization is what gave BG2 so much replayability for me. You had such a deep roster of builds and party combinations available to you, with tactics significantly impacted by how you gear everyone. The delayed gratification of builds coming online that involve dual and multi classing in the 2E system combined with all the great set piece fights…. ohgoditzheaven

3e was such massive decline
3e was progenitor and sign of times that will come after it - even bigger decline.
4e+, MMO's, reducing all classes to tank-damage dealer-buff archetypes, endless balancing and nerfing to make everything fair in the multiplayer and made so you can solo play...

If I remember correctly, you had to have existential fear from close combat as low level mage, it was by design.
You had to rely on your party to keep you alive until you became the force they will need for higher level enemies.
It was hard not to become maniac intoxicated with power you had after 5th level.
It was interesting and satisfying class arc.

Every class was asymetric, completely different experience.
Then they made mutliclassing some sort of salad buffet, you pick whatever you want, son.
Then every class got to have abilities that are equivalents to the cantrips and it cheapened magic.
And finally they removed penalties for armor wearing casting and made plate wearing mages possible, so nothing has any sense or value.

And bit by bit it became worse than LARP lightning-bolt-machine-gun-mage.
 
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