Bethesda General Discussion Thread

[DJOGamer PT]

"That's the game where we had no fear. We felt the company was going to go out of business, so when we had a chance to make Morrowind, we were like 'What's the worst that's going to happen?' We took a few more risks and if it hadn't worked out, I don't know that we'd be here. It worked out better than we could have imagined."

...

And while he disagrees there was more pressure on the sequel to Morrowind, he does admit the team took "more calculated risks with Oblivion."

This seems to be a trend in the industry.
An IP or company is about to go down the drain, so the dev team say "Fuck it! We're going down anyway, so why not do an actually cool videogame"
So they take risks and make something they've always wanted and put out essentially a passion project
In the worst case the game is buggy mess or unfinished (sometimes both), in the best scenario it's a major hit with tons of potential to grow. Either way the final product is almost always something fairly unique
After that though, if the team survives they will just put out increansingly safer and more dumbed down projects until they are again to put up agaisnt the wall

 

[purupuru]

Summary of this talk: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...arfield-todd-howard-and-the-story-of-bethesda

Love how no mention is made of New Vegas.

New Vegas is even less of a Bethesda game than the new Doom games, it wouldn't be appropriate for Todd to make comment on it.

 

[TemplarGR]

New Vegas is even less of a Bethesda game than the new Doom games, it wouldn't be appropriate for Todd to make comment on it.

New Vegas is a glorified fan mod for Fallout 3.

 

[Ol' Willy]

New Vegas is a glorified fan mod for Fallout 3.

Fagout 3 is a glorified mod for Oblivion

 

[TemplarGR]

Fagout 3 is a glorified mod for Oblivion

They have the same engine but vastly different assets and gameplay system.

On the other hand New Vegas is literally re-using almost everything.

 

[Ol' Willy]

vastly different assets and gameplay system.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

New Vegas is even less of a Bethesda game than the new Doom games, it wouldn't be appropriate for Todd to make comment on it.

New Vegas is a glorified fan mod for Fallout 3.

That just makes Beth look even worse, since that fan mod is better than any game they've since 2006

 

[TemplarGR]

That just makes Beth look even worse, since that fan mod is better than any game they've since 2006

Personally, i found Fallout 3 better than New Vegas, all things considered. In some areas 3 is better, in some other NV is better, but overall i enjoyed 3 more. I also disagree that Bethesda didn't surpass it afterwards, both Skyrim and Fallout 4 are better than NV overall.

Anyway, the thing about mods is that they are not real games, they are built upon the game others built. So all the hard work was made by other people. Seeing as the parent developer needed to make the whole game and possibly didn't have time to refine it, it is not rare for a mod to be more enjoyable/better than the base game, it has happened many times with fan mods in the past.

Imagine if Obsidian had to make everything by themselves. It would have taken them far more than 2 years and it wouldn't be anywhere near as detailed, open world, or rich in content, as NV was. See the Outer Worlds for confirmation about that, and keep in mind that even the Outer Worlds was based on an existing engine. The Outer worlds is a decent game but comes very short compared to NV.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

New Vegas was overrated.

Not disagreeing, but the fact the Fallout-theme of the article around the time period when Bethesda got it felt like a big omission (I say "time period" because I think it's probably appropriate they omit Fallout 1, 2, Tactics, and console BOS).

I generally feel like Bethesda purposely ignores FNV exists and hopes people will forget about it. (Obsidian hopes probably the opposite, since it generates nothing but good press for them, whether true or not.)

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

"That's the game where we had no fear. We felt the company was going to go out of business, so when we had a chance to make Morrowind, we were like 'What's the worst that's going to happen?' We took a few more risks and if it hadn't worked out, I don't know that we'd be here. It worked out better than we could have imagined."

...

And while he disagrees there was more pressure on the sequel to Morrowind, he does admit the team took "more calculated risks with Oblivion."

This seems to be a trend in the industry.
An IP or company is about to go down the drain, so the dev team say "Fuck it! We're going down anyway, so why not do an actually cool videogame"
So they take risks and make something they've always wanted and put out essentially a passion project
In the worst case the game is buggy mess or unfinished (sometimes both), in the best scenario it's a major hit with tons of potential to grow. Either way the final product is almost always something fairly unique
After that though, if the team survives they will just put out increansingly safer and more dumbed down projects until they are again to put up agaisnt the wall

Name 5 instances where this happened

 

[Flying Dutchman]

New Vegas is even less of a Bethesda game than the new Doom games, it wouldn't be appropriate for Todd to make comment on it.

Todd probably also hasn't played it, it would be too painful for him.

 

[Wunderbar]

Job-listings confirm that #Xbox first-parties studios Bethesda Montréal and Austin are working on an unannounced game.

This will most likely be Spyteam or Giant Monster News.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Bethesda are making an espionage RPG, Obsidian BTFO again.

 

[Bliblablubb]

Bethesda are making an espionage RPG

So it's going to be like Alpha Popamole, with "improved" combat, railroaded C&C and no romance. Running on the Gaybryo Creashun engine.
But with a marketing budget larger than F:NV's costs all together.
"It just works."(tm)

 

[Quillon]

 

[Rahdulan]

It suffers from Bethesda.

Pretty spot-on.

 

[TemplarGR]

This is just pandering to his audience for hurd cure cred and shekels.

Something being simple doesn't mean it lacks depth. Chess is extremely simple to learn, you can learn all the rules in less than 10 minutes. But it is also an extremely deep game to play, takes decades to master. Morons people often confuse complexity with depth, they are not the same thing, and often times cheap garbage companies add extreme complexity to fool the audience into thinking there is depth there.

The thing is, there is nothing in older Fallout games that is deeper than Fallout 4. Nothing. When you break down the gameplay elements to their essentials and do a proper comparison, you figure out that the depth of Fallout 4 is actually more deep than Fallout 1. It is just that Fallout 4 isn't a pretentious game to attempt to masquarade a lack of depth behind stats that don't really do anything, useless perks/traits, etc etc.

In fact Fallout 4 is the deeper game in the franchise. There are a metric crapton of interesting choices to make, and tons of worthwhile and fun gameplay elements.

Obviously cretins gonna cretin because dissing fallout 4 is "fun", even though it has sold a gazillion of copies and most people still play it to this day. But you know, there is no negative publicity, so feel free to "hate" it, we all know than when Fallout 5 gets announced you will all be jumping on your beds like 12 year old girls discovering the Backstreet Boys for the first time. Faggots.

 

[eli]

Something being simple doesn't mean it lacks depth. Chess is extremely simple to learn, you can learn all the rules in less than 10 minutes. But it is also an extremely deep game to play, takes decades to master. Morons people often confuse complexity with depth, they are not the same thing, and often times cheap garbage companies add extreme complexity to fool the audience into thinking there is depth there.

-fallout 4
-depth

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

A Fallout TV show?
I actually forgot about this thing.

I would like to say that that is the final stab but I think Fallout 4 and Fallout 76 already did that.
All that is going to be left of the originals and what Fallout used to be are memories and they will eventually fade away.

Honestly, at this point what does Fallout mean any more? People in Power Armor, Super Mutants, 50s references, zombies.
Bethesda doesn't get Fallout so sure as hell television producers are not going to be any better.

This is one of those cases in which I honestly hope that the coof kills it in its stage of conception. That the studio funding it is suffering so many financial losses that they can't afford this project and instead waste their money on something more safe.

 

[Tyrr]

The thing is, there is nothing in older Fallout games that is deeper than Fallout 4. Nothing.

Dialog is the first thing that comes to mind.

In fact Fallout 4 is the deeper game in the franchise. There are a metric crapton of interesting choices to make, ...

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

In fact Fallout 4 is the deeper game in the franchise. There are a metric crapton of interesting choices to make, and tons of worthwhile and fun gameplay elements.

Is this guy serious?

I have been wondering for a while, is TemplarGR sort of like a jester? Kept around because of his antics?

 

[Shadenuat]

TBH there is one grain of truth in what he says: Obsidian were consistently showered by disgustingly amazing opportunities: Star Wars, Forgotten Realms, Fallout; and yet they never reached any legendary status of that what was given to them. Judging by what they say the actually barely stayed in business. FNV was their biggest thing because Bethesda is big.
With money from fans, they made POE, trying to recapture BG2. And they made a mediocrity.
With money from Micro they made Outer Words. A mediocrity.

Perhaps Obsidian was always a false prophet and just lacked competence. Or perhaps I finally got completely old and too edgy and need a drink.

 

[copebot]

TBH there is one grain of truth in what he says: Obsidian were consistently showered by disgustingly amazing opportunities: Star Wars, Forgotten Realms, Fallout; and yet they never reached any legendary status of that what was given to them. Judging by what they say the actually barely stayed in business. FNV was their biggest thing because Bethesda is big.
With money from fans, they made POE, trying to recapture BG2. And they made a mediocrity.
With money from Micro they made Outer Words. A mediocrity.

Perhaps Obsidian was always a false prophet and just lacked competence. Or perhaps I finally got completely old and too edgy and need a drink.

Good writing can mask a lot of issues in design and gameplay in a narrative-driven RPG. Bad writing does not cast a spell over the player and makes poor gameplay systems stand out. FO:NV is very well written with many compelling and entertaining characters in a fantastical world that makes sense. Outer Worlds has dull writing and boring characters leavened by some "muffled guffaw-provoking" quips, all in a pozzed-out wrapper. I didn't finish TOW but I assume the large portion I played was a representative sample of the rest of the game.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

TBH there is one grain of truth in what he says: Obsidian were consistently showered by disgustingly amazing opportunities: Star Wars, Forgotten Realms, Fallout; and yet they never reached any legendary status of that what was given to them. FNV was their biggest thing because Bethesda is big.
With money from fans, they made POE, trying to recapture BG2. And they made a mediocrity.
With money from Micro they made Outer Words. A mediocrity.

Perhaps Obsidian was always a false prophet and just lacked competence. Or perhaps I finally got completely old and too edgy and need a drink.

I think part of the blame also lies with us gamers.
We see the good bits in their games and praise them for that, raising them above their contemporaries. And who in general can compare with them? I am probably forgetting a couple of studios/developers who have made games on par or even superior to Obsidian.
Bethesda? Bioware? Not by any long shot. Both have been in decline for ages despite how much their fanatical fandom praise their games (they have selected their audience very well)

But I do think these last ten years have shown us the inherent weaknesses/flaws in the company and its developers.

They got really fucking lucky that M$ decided to buy them up as I am not sure how long they would have lasted as an independent studio.
I am not even sure a lot of people would care if they had gone bankrupt.
A lot of their reputation is based on the predecessor's releases in the 90s and the few decent releases they had in the 2000s. But reputations fade if you don't maintain them.

 

[Shadenuat]

FO:NV is very well written with many compelling and entertaining characters in a fantastical world that makes sense.

FNV writing interacts with gameplay somewhat: exploration, factions, choices, and choices depend on roleplaying system. It's not binary like only writing is good (like KOTOR2).

Good writing can mask a lot of issues in design and gameplay in a narrative-driven RPG

should it tho? games should be fun to play.

Bethesda? Bioware? Not by any long shot. Both have been in decline for ages despite how much their fanatical fandom praise their games (they have selected their audience very well)

Eh, with Bethesda honestly you don't know. They fill a particular niche and their releases always got a ton of flack and hate. Imo regardless what people say TESVI can still sell 1555 million copies of hype. Gamers are as quick to hate as quick to fall in love with new thing.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Eh, with Bethesda honestly you don't know. They fill a particular niche and their releases always got a ton of flack and hate. Imo regardless what people say TESVI can still sell 1555 million copies of hype.

That is sort of what I meant, they have selected or acquired their audience very well.
The people who buy their games might complain about the bugginess, reduction of gameplay/features, inconsistencies in the lore, or the writing, but they keep coming back to buy Bethesda games.
They never seem to learn from previous disappointments or they are willing to forgive and forget when Toddy and Hiney/Hines do their snake oil salesman trick.