BG2 is overrated, not as good as BG1 and is not a top 10 CRPG

[octavius]

 

[ToddMcF2002]

No it isn't. In BG1 you naturally explore maps, which open new maps in an organic way. Go west, go further through the mountains, maybe head south this time and open a new map, like a real adventure. BG2 is literally bounce from set piece to set piece.

Can we get an exact explanation on what you mean when you say that BG2 'literally' bounces from 'set piece to set piece'? What exactly is a 'set piece' in your opinion?

A staged setiting for a combat challenge I suspect. BG2 is a long series of combat challenges at its core.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Am I the only one who enjoys both ? Should I have walls built in my brain to be more normal ? Help me codex !

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Can we get an exact explanation on what you mean when you say that BG2 'literally' bounces from 'set piece to set piece'? What exactly is a 'set piece' in your opinion?

A set piece is a map like in Mass Effect. You don't explore the world in a natural way, you don't go from map to map looking for adventure. You pick a map, are transported there and it's built to be a quest with a simple working of - get quest, do quest, kill boss, etc.. Go back to the hub, restock/buy/whatever, go on to the next one. Each map in BG2 is a set piece for some quest rather than roaming the landscape looking for things. Yes, the things to find in BG1 are sparse and small in comparison, but that is what makes it charming. You're just exploring rather than going from quest map to quest map.

 

[anvi]

Am I the only one who enjoys both ? Should I have walls built in my brain to be more normal ? Help me codex !

Don't you find the combat super boring in BG1 compare to BG2?

 

[Doktor Best]

Their one great game of the original Baldur's Gate has been unmatched since and there's a reason everyone agrees with me. .

Looking at the ratings for your opening post, i would say that the majority actually disagrees.

Baldurs Gate 1 versus 2 will always be a matter of the player's taste. Its an old and futile discussion. People have been looking for different things in RPGs for almost as long as they have existed.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Don't you find the combat super boring in BG1 compare to BG2?

Not really. Opponents are less interesting in 1 but you die easier, so it makes up for it.

 

[Yosharian]

Can we get an exact explanation on what you mean when you say that BG2 'literally' bounces from 'set piece to set piece'? What exactly is a 'set piece' in your opinion?

A set piece is a map like in Mass Effect. You don't explore the world in a natural way, you don't go from map to map looking for adventure. You pick a map, are transported there and it's built to be a quest with a simple working of - get quest, do quest, kill boss, etc.. Go back to the hub, restock/buy/whatever, go on to the next one. Each map in BG2 is a set piece for some quest rather than roaming the landscape looking for things. Yes, the things to find in BG1 are sparse and small in comparison, but that is what makes it charming. You're just exploring rather than going from quest map to quest map.

I get that roaming the landscape is charming for you, but isnt that more of an open world-type game, rather than a story-driven RPG?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I get that roaming the landscape is charming for you, but isnt that more of an open world-type game, rather than a story-driven RPG?

Well yeah. It's kind of like the difference between Morrowind (free-roam, no pressure exploration) and Oblivion (immediate action, need to close Oblivion gates, Kvatch, etc..) It's a difference in pacing and atmosphere. I personally prefer the relaxing, open exploration of something like the first BG over the "Quick, everyone needs help ASAP!!" style of BG2. They overcompensated in the second game just like Bethesda did thinking their players didn't want another relaxing, eased in start. They went quick for the "EPIC ASAP!!" thing and it ruined the game (for me, your mileage may vary.)

 

[Yosharian]

I get that roaming the landscape is charming for you, but isnt that more of an open world-type game, rather than a story-driven RPG?

Well yeah. It's kind of like the difference between Morrowind (free-roam, no pressure exploration) and Oblivion (immediate action, need to close Oblivion gates, Kvatch, etc..) It's a difference in pacing and atmosphere. I personally prefer the relaxing, open exploration of something like the first BG over the "Quick, everyone needs help ASAP!!" style of BG2. They overcompensated in the second game just like Bethesda did thinking their players didn't want another relaxing, eased in start. They went quick for the "EPIC ASAP!!" thing and it ruined the game (for me, your mileage may vary.)

OK. Doesn't that contradict your title? You said it yourself, that it's a difference of pacing and atmosphere, rather than 'good' and 'bad.

Just as a reminder, your title is:

"BG2 is overrated, not as good as BG1 and is not a top 10 CRPG"

Whereas a more reasoned title might be:

"I prefer the relaxing, open exploration of BG1 over the EPIC ASAP!! style of BG2"

 

[anvi]

Don't you find the combat super boring in BG1 compare to BG2?

Not really. Opponents are less interesting in 1 but you die easier, so it makes up for it.

But what about being so low level and only having very limited magic?

 

[ga♥]

Fresh from a replay of BG2:

- BG2 story is less coherent and there are huge plot holes. Why Irenicus needs exactly your soul? Can't he just steal an elf's? Why doesn't he react to you killing Bodhi?
- BG2 main plot is also less intimate and less rewarding. Imoen this Imoen that.
- Late game is seriously missing content. I loved the Underdark, but Ust Natha is small and with little to do. Same with everything after ChapII (Brynnlaw, the Sea City...)
- Athankla feels less than a city than Baldur's gate.
- Extremely railroaded after ChaptII.
- High level ADnD is just less funny.

 

[Oreshnik Missile]

^I agree in general, but.. surely the Underdark mean the Late Game has lots of content? BG2 underdark was so good.

 

[ToddMcF2002]

It might be easier for people who like BG1 better to simply agree that BG2 is better. Otherwise it will just keep going. The BG2 people are complete fanatics.

 

[Yosharian]

Fresh from a replay of BG2:

- BG2 story is less coherent and there are huge plot holes. Why Irenicus needs exactly your soul? Can't he just steal an elf's? Why doesn't he react to you killing Bodhi?
- BG2 main plot is also less intimate and less rewarding. Imoen this Imoen that.
- Late game is seriously missing content. I loved the Underdark, but Ust Natha is small and with little to do. Same with everything after ChapII (Brynnlaw, the Sea City...)
- Athankla feels less than a city than Baldur's gate.
- Extremely railroaded after ChaptII.
- High level ADnD is just less funny.

He needs the soul (or a fragment of such) of a god, not just an elf's soul.

His emotions (or at least, his capacity to love) are completely dead. This is explained in one of the books you find of his, a diary or somesuch.

Pure opinion

True, but there is Watcher's Keep.

Pure opinion

Yes, it is rather railroaded.

Less 'funny'? What does that even mean? And less funny than what?

 

[Yosharian]

It might be easier for people who like BG1 better to simply agree that BG2 is better. Otherwise it will just keep going. The BG2 people are complete fanatics.

Whereas BG1 fans don't display any fanatical characteristics at all, no sir

 

[Jinn]

OK. Doesn't that contradict your title? You said it yourself, that it's a difference of pacing and atmosphere, rather than 'good' and 'bad.

Just as a reminder, your title is:

"BG2 is overrated, not as good as BG1 and is not a top 10 CRPG"

Whereas a more reasoned title might be:

"I prefer the relaxing, open exploration of BG1 over the EPIC ASAP!! style of BG2"

Exactly this. I'm less interested in the actual discussion (as it's one that has been talked to death on these forums) and more at Fluent's response to the criticism of his opinion (which he seems to view as fact from the conception of the this thread). I think both BGs have their strengths and weakness, but overall I prefer BG II.

Fluent, you can't make sweeping statements based on your opinion, present them as fact, challenge people to refute this, then get upset when they reasonably do so.

 

[Sigourn]

I have not played BG2 but BG1 was the most overrated piece of shit Codex-recommended cRPG I've ever played. A 6/10 if I've ever seen one.

 

[Lhynn]

- BG2 story is less coherent and there are huge plot holes. Why Irenicus needs exactly your soul? Can't he just steal an elf's? Why doesn't he react to you killing Bodhi?

The fuck would an elfs soul do? he wants a bhaalspawns soul. There are thousands, you are just the one he managed to find first.

BG2 main plot is also less intimate and less rewarding. Imoen this Imoen that.

Wut? This is bullshit. First game is about sarevok, second game is about irenicus. Imoen doesnt matter and you can tell her to fuck off.

Late game is seriously missing content. I loved the Underdark, but Ust Natha is small and with little to do. Same with everything after ChapII (Brynnlaw, the Sea City...)
Extremely railroaded after ChaptII.

The thing about this is that you can do all the quests in chapter 2, or you do them in chapter 5. Tho i agree, theres just not enough of baldurs gate 2, more content would have been nice..

High level ADnD is just less funny.

Well, yeah, higher stakes. Plus BG2 gave us a much darker story.
I mean the first game starts with murder.
The second game starts with torture, rape done by an ungodly abomination to you and your companions. The tone shift is insane, it makes sure to let you know the stakes are higher than ever. To me its an amazing start to a sequel.

 

[RapineDel]

BG1 is a game where your exploration is mostly for nought. You can venture through every unnamed generic area, enter most houses (all are c/p with the exact same layout including chests etc.) but most of the loot and quests are fairly lame and you feel like you've wasted most of your time afterwards. A poor game has to claim "exploration is its own reward!" and that's where this game fails (in fact most of the best loot can only be found with a walkthrough unless you scour every single section of the map, moving your mouse ever so slowly for the handful of good items randomly hidden).

Fluent, Kenshi is your favourite game at the moment and that's no different, an empty, barren game for the most part and not too different from BG1 in the exploration department. If you want to "make your own fun" through your imagination and what ifs that's fine but people who actually see the content for what it is can't get behind that. The exploration is shit and that's supposed to be the main draw of BG1.

Wouldn't be shocked if the same people who love BG1 are the same people who secretly love modern Bethesda games, it's the same mindset.

BG2 isn't really about world exploration, it's a different beast and is about quality content. You can argue story, combat flaws but there's absolutely quality content here and having played it again recently in that regard it certainly holds up and for that alone it's much better. The devs accepted they can't get open exploration right so the stuck to hand crafting tighter areas and searching every nook and cranny in these is far more rewarding. I'm all for open exploration if done right but if it's not the quality of Gothic, don't bother.

 

[Yosharian]

I can't help but wonder what the point is of being able to explore every nook and cranny, if there aren't interesting things in those nooks and crannies.

And I take the same approach in my PnP games, but I'd be happy to hear an opposing viewpoint

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Fellas, the title is just trolling. I realize opinions are subjective and no one can say "x is better than y" in this case. Not trolling per say, just a loud title designed to get responses. I just prefer BG1 over BG2 and know there is no argument set in stone to "prove" that it's better, I just like it more. It got 11 pages of discussion, so I guess it worked.

 

[anvi]

I have not played BG2 but BG1 was the most overrated piece of shit Codex-recommended cRPG I've ever played. A 6/10 if I've ever seen one.

I thought BG1 was shit too, but BG2 is a very different game believe it or not. I suggest you try it.

 

[Yosharian]

Fellas, the title is just trolling...It got 11 pages of discussion, so I guess it worked.

The beast reveals himself...

 

[Loostreaks]

Not really. Opponents are less interesting in 1 but you die easier, so it makes up for it.

It had none of that. Low lvl rpgs in particular need a strong encounter design that requires some tactics ( as result of how fragile your party is)..BG1 was trash mobs after trash mobs after trash mobs. 95% of encounters revolved around pre-nuking enemies with your mage, pull him back, put fighter in front.
Only worthwhile encounters were late game, versus mixed party composition, using variety of class skills/abilities and requiring player to adapt based on enemy actions( like the one in Iron Throne HQ). And BG2 had much more of this: Slave Lords, Cyric cultists, Lich compound, etc, etc. Plus enemy variety is miles ahead and still one of the most extensive ( in any rpg).
Same complaints about story/villain inconsistencies are equally present: Sarevok's delusion ( " If you kill like a God, who's to say you're not a God") and player's involvement in the plot ( resolving iron crisis will bring you closer to finding your stepfather's killer...somehow). And npcs/quests found "exploring"/clearing fog of war ( usually, conveniently in center of the map) were very much in same line of "wait-in-the-open-and-wait-for-hero/player-to-fix-my-world ending-crisis".
Exploration was very poorly done in BG1: when people praise it, it's more for liking the concept than the actual execution.( Same case with nostalgic outlook on "exploring" planets in first Mass Effect)
Which to be fair, BG2 would've benefited from: some segments of the game, like the Underdark were too small/cramped to give a ( somewhat) believable sense of place. ( Dragon lair, Drow City, Illithid compound, Beholder nest...all within 50 meters radius).
As a low lvl adventure, first two acts of Shadows of Undrentide were much better executed than BG1. Same goes for many player mods: Dance with Rogues, Conan, Tales from Forgotten Lake, etc.