Bioshock ain't that bad...

[Wunderbar]

It's ok. I didn't mean to upset you, well I kind of did but it's not really my true desire. You're alright, bad taste aside
One of the better among the bad taste crowd, I lump you in with Roguey and DalekFlay.

yeah, tell me about bad taste, mr. "bioshock infinite is good for what it is" Ash.

 

[Ash]

Yup. On 1999 mode specifically it is legitimately one of the more worthy straightforward FPS I can think of from 2005ish to present day. Is it amazing? No. Is it good, ehhh. Is it good for what it is (decline era FPS), I'd say so. Just take a look at that year:

Call of Duty: Ghosts
Aliens: Colonial Marines
Crysis 3
Battlefield 4
Metro: Last Light
Sniper: Ghost Warrior
Killzone: Shadow Fall
Far Cry: Blood Dragon
The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct
Bioshock: Infinite

I played 80% of this list. Bioshock: Infinite is considerably better than all of them as a singleplayer experience, while again, merely just being good for what it is. Those were hard times for the FPS in particular. It sounds like you didn't play on 1999 mode which while won't make the game into a great one, does make it into an acceptable game experience. Most FPS back then barely qualified as games to me. More highly scripted walking sim.

The point I'm making: Infinite while rather on rails and mechanically simpler than ever is more worthy as a game than the original Bioshock. Just because a game is simple or linear doesn't mean it is bad. It is bad when the game rules do not work in tandem as one example, like the original Bioshock and its sequel.

 

[kangaxx]

Yup. On 1999 mode specifically it legitimately one of the more worthy straightforward FPS I can think of from 2005ish to present day. Is it amazing? No. Is it good, ehhh. Is it good for what it is (decline era FPS), I'd say so. Just take a look at that year:

Call of Duty: Ghosts
Aliens: Colonial Marines
Crysis 3
Battlefield 4
Metro: Last Light
Sniper: Ghost Warrior
Killzone: Shadow Fall
Far Cry: Blood Dragon
The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct
Bioshock: Infinite

I played 80% of this list. Bioshock: Infinite is considerably better than all of them as a singleplayer experience, while again, merely just being good for what it is. Those were hard times for the FPS in particular. It sounds like you didn't play on 1999 mode which while won't make the game into a great one, does make it into an acceptable game experience. Most FPS back then barely qualified as games to me. More highly scripted walking sim.

I'd completely forgotten about Colonial Marines. I must revisit all the meme videos made about the broken AI...

 

[Zombra]

Reverting to checkpoint is a loss of progress.

You know you're arguing in favor of vita chambers, right?

 

[Ash]

Wut? I don't think you understand what was written if you believe that to be the case. I am all for (reasonable) loss of progress as penalty for failure, as well as other methods of penalization. I know you are too, so what are you getting at?
The has to be some kind of penalty for failure, it's extremely integral to game design on a fundamental level. Vita chambers as it stands in Bioshock offer none outside of the approximate 5 seconds it takes to return to where you died. In fact, death is more often a reward in that game than it is a penalty, technically. there's more times it benefits you than hinders. You can save health hypos by just reusing vita chambers and the health they give over and over. I mean this doesn't actually benefit you because you just don't need to do it, but it would be a legitimate strategy in a different game (e.g games that have infinite health sources, it is wise to abuse those sources as much as possible before moving on, and is often also lame).

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

If you factor in the context (being released at a time when gaming was literally dead) then Bioshock is... passable. However, if someone wants a "retarded SS2 offspring" kind of game from the similar period, then Dead Space is a much better choice imo.

 

[Morgoth]

Been replaying Bioshock 1 & 2 recently, as well as trying another (unsuccessful) rerun into Infinite and Shock 2.

Infinite seems primitive in comparison to it's predecessors, almost insultingly so, and Shock 2, (un)shockingly, hasn't aged well gameplay wise, either. Bioshock 1 & 2 however still withstood the test of time gracefully.

Inb4 Ash butthurt.

 

[kangaxx]

Infinite seems primitive in comparison to it's predecessors

How do you mean? In terms of graphics and mechanical feel I completely disagree. In terms of encounter design I completely agree. I think both are pretty mediocre either way, but then pure on-rails shooters don't really do it for me.

 

[Morgoth]

Infinite was often literally on rails. Also the exposition with Elizabeth was exaggerated, and the level design too confined. And don't get me started about Burial at the Sea. What a major disappointment.

 

[adddeed]

Yup. On 1999 mode specifically it legitimately one of the more worthy straightforward FPS I can think of from 2005ish to present day. Is it amazing? No. Is it good, ehhh. Is it good for what it is (decline era FPS), I'd say so. Just take a look at that year:

Call of Duty: Ghosts
Aliens: Colonial Marines
Crysis 3
Battlefield 4
Metro: Last Light
Sniper: Ghost Warrior
Killzone: Shadow Fall
Far Cry: Blood Dragon
The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct
Bioshock: Infinite

I played 80% of this list. Bioshock: Infinite is considerably better than all of them as a singleplayer experience, while again, merely just being good for what it is. Those were hard times for the FPS in particular. It sounds like you didn't play on 1999 mode which while won't make the game into a great one, does make it into an acceptable game experience. Most FPS back then barely qualified as games to me. More highly scripted walking sim.

I'd completely forgotten about Colonial Marines. I must revisit all the meme videos made about the broken AI...

Colonal Marines is actually very enjoyable. Its basically Call of Duty with aliens. I love the visuals and the atmosphere, and the set pieces.

 

[Maggot]

Been replaying Bioshock 1 & 2 recently, as well as trying another (unsuccessful) rerun into Infinite and Shock 2.

Infinite seems primitive in comparison to it's predecessors, almost insultingly so, and Shock 2, (un)shockingly, hasn't aged well gameplay wise, either. Bioshock 1 & 2 however still withstood the test of time gracefully.

Inb4 Ash butthurt.

The gameplay of Bioshock 1 was the worst part. It's a very poor shooter with unsatisfying weaponry.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I don't think I played Infinite for more than 2 hours because I hated it so much (I was unaware that 1999 mode was unlockable without finishing the game), but from what I remember it was mostly an arena shooter, no? Like "walk into a plaza, kill 20 mooks, last one drops a key to the only gate out". Which, while I'm aware arena shooters have a fairly long pedigree, they've never really been my thing, and it made Infinite feel even less like a Shock game than Bioshock 1.

Ken Levine's career is so weird. He went from SS2, Freedom Force, and Freedom Force vs. the Third Reich straight into Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite. That's the kind of career arc that 500 years from now historians are going to have conspiracy theories about whether or not he was replaced by an alien in 2005.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Yeah any pretense of BioShock being anything resembling an immersive sim was tossed out completely come Infinite. I've heard Burial at Sea tries to course-correct to a degree but I wouldn't know. Couldn't bring myself to give it another thought after beating it once and seeing it be taken apart bit-by-bit afterwards.

 

[Zombra]

I don't think I played Infinite for more than 2 hours because I hated it so much (I was unaware that 1999 mode was unlockable without finishing the game), but from what I remember it was mostly an arena shooter, no? Like "walk into a plaza, kill 20 mooks, last one drops a key to the only gate out". Which, while I'm aware arena shooters have a fairly long pedigree, they've never really been my thing, and it made Infinite feel even less like a Shock game than Bioshock 1.

Ironically, the Clash in the Clouds DLC, a straight up shooting gallery with tight level design and thoughtfully balanced, escalating encounters, was the only part of Infinite I remember liking. Unlike the constricted, annoying, pretentious, tiresome main game, it didn't pretend to be anything else.

 

[Falksi]

Been replaying Bioshock 1 & 2 recently, as well as trying another (unsuccessful) rerun into Infinite and Shock 2.

Infinite seems primitive in comparison to it's predecessors, almost insultingly so, and Shock 2, (un)shockingly, hasn't aged well gameplay wise, either. Bioshock 1 & 2 however still withstood the test of time gracefully.

Inb4 Ash butthurt.

I think they're all awful tbh. The first has a lush vibe & decent enough story for a shooter, but the gameplay is fucking woeful.

 

[Morgoth]

Gameplay will just never satisfy anyone entirely, but the game deserves credit for that dying thing called world building. I just loved roaming around in the ruins of Rapture, and the clunky gameplay loop and the somewhat cartoonish characters weren't bad enough to put me off.

 

[DalekFlay]

If everything is turned off, it's all "not that bad" as the thread states, yes, yet the game should be judged to its intended state and it is massive decline nonetheless.

I'll just never agree with this kind of thinking, but I respect your position and... looking around the internet... you are probably in the majority to approach things that way.

 

[Xelocix]

I bought all the Bioshock games during a steam sale like 5 years ago because I remember the series being super popular as a kid/teen and figured I might as well give it a shot.

I remember Bioshock 1 being one of the most meh games I ever played, and got so bored with Bioshock 2 I dropped it like 3 hours in and haven't touched it since. I consider giving it another shot every year or so, but everybody seems to pan Bioshock Infinite so even if I manage to complete Bioshock 2 it feels like I'm just setting myself up for future frustration and disappointment.

 

[DalekFlay]

I consider giving it another shot every year or so, but everybody seems to pan Bioshock Infinite so even if I manage to complete Bioshock 2 it feels like I'm just setting myself up for future frustration and disappointment.

Infinite is a better shooter but an even worse System Shock style game, so it depends on what you're looking for.

 

[Xelocix]

I consider giving it another shot every year or so, but everybody seems to pan Bioshock Infinite so even if I manage to complete Bioshock 2 it feels like I'm just setting myself up for future frustration and disappointment.

Infinite is a better shooter but an even worse System Shock style game, so it depends on what you're looking for.

When I play a game I tend to prioritize; Story > Atmosphere > Gameplay, with the exception of multiplayer games being the other way around.

 

[DalekFlay]

When I play a game I tend to prioritize; Story > Atmosphere > Gameplay, with the exception of multiplayer games being the other way around.

Story is very subjective but it's pretty similar in style to the first two I guess? Directed by the same dude. It's a little more involved I suppose, with more cutscenes and dialog interactions and not everything being on audio logs. Atmosphere you can google but it's mostly a dreamy kind of bright fantasy, the main theme being nationalism run amuck like capitalism and socialism in the first two. Gameplay... like I said, it's a better shooter. You move around a lot more, enemies are more reactive, the skyline stuff adds a neat layer. Nothing OH MY FUCKING GOD amazing, but it's fun.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Story is very subjective but it's pretty similar in style to the first two I guess? Directed by the same dude. It's a little more involved I suppose, with more cutscenes and dialog interactions and not everything being on audio logs. Atmosphere you can google but it's mostly a dreamy kind of bright fantasy, the main theme being nationalism run amuck like capitalism and socialism in the first two. Gameplay... like I said, it's a better shooter. You move around a lot more, enemies are more reactive, the skyline stuff adds a neat layer. Nothing OH MY FUCKING GOD amazing, but it's fun.

I don't totally know what I'm talking about here as I didn't get far into Infinite, but isn't there also a

Spoiler

time-travelly Keyser Soze twist

that was even widely regarded by normies as a bridge too far?

I have vague memories of googling Infinite's plot after abandoning it (I still had some hope that Levine would put out an intelligent story), and just being dumbfounded at what I read.

 

[Norwood Detective]

Been replaying Bioshock 1 & 2 recently, as well as trying another (unsuccessful) rerun into Infinite and Shock 2.

Infinite seems primitive in comparison to it's predecessors, almost insultingly so, and Shock 2, (un)shockingly, hasn't aged well gameplay wise, either. Bioshock 1 & 2 however still withstood the test of time gracefully.

Inb4 Ash butthurt.

The gameplay of Bioshock 1 was the worst part. It's a very poor shooter with unsatisfying weaponry.

The same is true of System Shock 2.

 

[Zombra]

I didn't get far into Infinite, but isn't there also a [twist] that was even widely regarded by normies as a bridge too far?

The twist is fine as a thing. In fact, it could have worked brilliantly combined with a lot of the other stuff; but there is so much other story cruft, and so many completely idiotic writing decisions, that by the time you get to it, you don't care any more. I started tuning out with the whole forced baptism scene, and completely gave up when the protagonist decided to start murdering policemen in broad daylight for no evident reason whatsoever. After that it was just a shooty game about killing cops and there was zero way for me to remain emotionally or intellectually invested in anything the game tried to say.

 

[Maggot]

Been replaying Bioshock 1 & 2 recently, as well as trying another (unsuccessful) rerun into Infinite and Shock 2.

Infinite seems primitive in comparison to it's predecessors, almost insultingly so, and Shock 2, (un)shockingly, hasn't aged well gameplay wise, either. Bioshock 1 & 2 however still withstood the test of time gracefully.

Inb4 Ash butthurt.

The gameplay of Bioshock 1 was the worst part. It's a very poor shooter with unsatisfying weaponry.

The same is true of System Shock 2.

The enemies never turn into bullet sponges in SS2 so no. Also the guns have a satisfying kick to them in SS2.