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Blizzard announced "Classic" World of Warcraft

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Arthas' flaw is that he ignored the warnings of his trusted friends. First he ignored his childhood friend and his mentor. Then he ignored his uncle Muradin, who warned him about the sword being cursed. Then he usurps his father, a good and wise man who formed the Alliance and defeated the Horde and brought peace to the continent. Who does he listen to? The voice of a sword he was warned about, an evil wizard, and a spider he just met. You have to wonder why he was not well known for foolishness before the game began.
I haven't played any of the games ITT, but I'm fairly certain that the voice in the sword had some sort of a hypnotic effect on him through magic or curses or whatever which led to his corruption. Doubt he just listened to a sword that told him to kill his dad for no fucking reason.
 

Arbiter

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I haven't played any of the games ITT, but I'm fairly certain that the voice in the sword had some sort of a hypnotic effect on him through magic or curses or whatever which led to his corruption. Doubt he just listened to a sword that told him to kill his dad for no fucking reason.

No, the sword was just the final step in his descent into madness, after culling of Stratholme, burning his ships and betraying the mercenaries that helped him to do so.
 

Delterius

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Entre a serra e o mar.
Arthas' flaw is that he ignored the warnings of his trusted friends. First he ignored his childhood friend and his mentor. Then he ignored his uncle Muradin, who warned him about the sword being cursed. Then he usurps his father, a good and wise man who formed the Alliance and defeated the Horde and brought peace to the continent. Who does he listen to? The voice of a sword he was warned about, an evil wizard, and a spider he just met. You have to wonder why he was not well known for foolishness before the game began.
I think Arthas' fatal flaw is that he is primarily ego driven. He was raised to be the perfect prince, not only for his personal qualities but also as a Paladin. And he doesn't take failure well. More importantly, we are slowly weaned into that flaw with each chapter of the main campaign.

When Arthas fights the orcish cultists he doesn't steel himself for the horrors he's about to witness, in stark contrast with Uther who stays calm throught the ordeal. That's not bad in itself. Arthas is young, Uther is old, experienced, and a war veteran. So it's no surprise that Arthas is more emotional, it just seems that he's got a lot to grow as a Paladin.

Arthas starts to show his hand in the undead siege. By that point he'd 'failed' to save the people of Andorhal (though, really it wasn't his fault at all), so when Uther comes in and compliments his defence, Arthas takes that personally as if it was an accusation. You should have done better, you should have been better.

Then two things happen in Stratholme. Arthas takes a drastic measure and puts the city to the sword. We'll never know how many people had actually eaten from the new grain stocks, but we know it hadn't been everyone. The second thing is that Mal'ganis shows up and baits him. From that moment onwards it's not about protecting the people, it's about revenge. That is where Arthas begins to make a series of strategic blunders. He took the enemies' bait because he's emotionally compromised.

This all feeds back into the final cutscene. The sword's whispers are that Arthas 'no longer needs to bear the weight of the Crown'. He can finally live or un-live for himself, with no pretense at morality or responsibility.

Warcraft 3 was no shakespeare but I think it was a well told story with good fundamentals.
 

janior

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anyway how do you guys feel about hardcore classic? I'm tempted to resub and try(prob not worth it but eh).
 

Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Wonder if that grain tasted differently.

"Hey Johnny, does this grain taste a bit undead to you?"
 

FreeKaner

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Arthas' flaw is that he ignored the warnings of his trusted friends. First he ignored his childhood friend and his mentor. Then he ignored his uncle Muradin, who warned him about the sword being cursed. Then he usurps his father, a good and wise man who formed the Alliance and defeated the Horde and brought peace to the continent. Who does he listen to? The voice of a sword he was warned about, an evil wizard, and a spider he just met. You have to wonder why he was not well known for foolishness before the game began.
I think Arthas' fatal flaw is that he is primarily ego driven. He was raised to be the perfect prince, not only for his personal qualities but also as a Paladin. And he doesn't take failure well. More importantly, we are slowly weaned into that flaw with each chapter of the main campaign.

When Arthas fights the orcish cultists he doesn't steel himself for the horrors he's about to witness, in stark contrast with Uther who stays calm throught the ordeal. That's not bad in itself. Arthas is young, Uther is old, experienced, and a war veteran. So it's no surprise that Arthas is more emotional, it just seems that he's got a lot to grow as a Paladin.

Arthas starts to show his hand in the undead siege. By that point he'd 'failed' to save the people of Andorhal (though, really it wasn't his fault at all), so when Uther comes in and compliments his defence, Arthas takes that personally as if it was an accusation. You should have done better, you should have been better.

Then two things happen in Stratholme. Arthas takes a drastic measure and puts the city to the sword. We'll never know how many people had actually eaten from the new grain stocks, but we know it hadn't been everyone. The second thing is that Mal'ganis shows up and baits him. From that moment onwards it's not about protecting the people, it's about revenge. That is where Arthas begins to make a series of strategic blunders. He took the enemies' bait because he's emotionally compromised.

This all feeds back into the final cutscene. The sword's whispers are that Arthas 'no longer needs to bear the weight of the Crown'. He can finally live or un-live for himself, with no pretense at morality or responsibility.

Warcraft 3 was no shakespeare but I think it was a well told story with good fundamentals.

Warcraft 3 is primarily a story about fall, and that makes for compelling character narratives because it inherently requires character arcs and character development. Blizzard forced their own hand, because they had to connect the campaign to showcase both humans and undead, which in turn made them have to create a story of how a paladin turns into its undead equivalent as a death knight. They set themselves up for success with that sort of premise.
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
Arthas' flaw is that he ignored the warnings of his trusted friends. First he ignored his childhood friend and his mentor. Then he ignored his uncle Muradin, who warned him about the sword being cursed. Then he usurps his father, a good and wise man who formed the Alliance and defeated the Horde and brought peace to the continent. Who does he listen to? The voice of a sword he was warned about, an evil wizard, and a spider he just met. You have to wonder why he was not well known for foolishness before the game began.
I've legit met people in real life that acted this way. Well, not quite "Listened to an inanimate object" levels of the same way (probably), but close enough - taking someone's word as gospel and then ignoring close people that try to object and say that things are actually not quite as black and white, or the information is outdated, or that perhaps that dreadlord isn't the best candidate for a date night.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
4,062
anyway how do you guys feel about hardcore classic? I'm tempted to resub and try(prob not worth it but eh).
I don't think it changes much. WoW is not exactly a difficult game, and it sounds like a less fun time since it incentivizes you to avoid doing dungeons since it only takes 1 retarded party to obliterate your character, and considering it's WoW retarded parties are a given. I guess if you have Vanish, Feign Death, or invisibility potions you might be able to hearthstone out of a wipe.
 

SerratedBiz

Arcane
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
4,143
anyway how do you guys feel about hardcore classic? I'm tempted to resub and try(prob not worth it but eh).
I don't think it changes much. WoW is not exactly a difficult game, and it sounds like a less fun time since it incentivizes you to avoid doing dungeons since it only takes 1 retarded party to obliterate your character, and considering it's WoW retarded parties are a given. I guess if you have Vanish, Feign Death, or invisibility potions you might be able to hearthstone out of a wipe.
HC rules state that you can only do a dungeon once per character and only within a certain level range.

And not dying is not as easy as it sounds.
 

Absinthe

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Jan 6, 2012
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And even then the dungeon is a major danger to your character if you have shitty teammates. "Whoops I pulled adds!" "Whoops I pulled aggro as healer!" "Whoops I don't quite understand how to build threat or use tanking abilities!" <- time to fucking delete your character. It only takes one.

And not dying just incentivizes stacking stamina, playing it safe, and doing content while overleveled for it. Riveting stuff.
 

KazikluBey

Cipher
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Man it was nostalgia bait but I really liked this dungeon [Culling of Stratholme]
Not that bad the first time I guess, but I always just leave if it comes up in an rdf hc.

And even then the dungeon is a major danger to your character if you have shitty teammates. "Whoops I pulled adds!" "Whoops I pulled aggro as healer!" "Whoops I don't quite understand how to build threat or use tanking abilities!" <- time to fucking delete your character. It only takes one.

And not dying just incentivizes stacking stamina, playing it safe, and doing content while overleveled for it. Riveting stuff.
Pug dungeons the old fashioned way from players who also use the hardcore addon, I guess. It's at least a way of trying to make the journey to max level matter.

Anyway, don't pay for classic, just use a private server. For WotLK at least, the mechanics are more blizzlike than the Blizzard servers.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
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Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
Might be worth it rolling a healer and open salt mines by not doing your job properly. Could be fun.
Just roll a tank and forget to properly build threat on secondary targets when you're busy tanking like 3-4 mobs. It's a super common fuck-up and will wipe the party properly when the healer invariably aggroes.
 

janior

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dying to ninja pull in a dungeon on a hc character is still better than playing normal version with bots/gdkp/rmt
 

SerratedBiz

Arcane
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
4,143
And even then the dungeon is a major danger to your character if you have shitty teammates. "Whoops I pulled adds!" "Whoops I pulled aggro as healer!" "Whoops I don't quite understand how to build threat or use tanking abilities!" <- time to fucking delete your character. It only takes one.

And not dying just incentivizes stacking stamina, playing it safe, and doing content while overleveled for it. Riveting stuff.
Dude if you haven't played it then just say so, no need to talk out of your ass and show it.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
And even then the dungeon is a major danger to your character if you have shitty teammates. "Whoops I pulled adds!" "Whoops I pulled aggro as healer!" "Whoops I don't quite understand how to build threat or use tanking abilities!" <- time to fucking delete your character. It only takes one.

And not dying just incentivizes stacking stamina, playing it safe, and doing content while overleveled for it. Riveting stuff.
Dude if you haven't played it then just say so, no need to talk out of your ass and show it.
The fuck are you on about, son? Level ranges only apply to dungeons. You can be overleveled for the rest no problem. Yes, you only do dungeons with other hardcore players. Yes, they're expected to be better than your suicidal casual shitters, but in reality there are still people who fuck shit up in HC dungeons. Even if the overwhelming majority are not like that, it only takes one shitter to wipe your character in a HC dungeon if you do not have wipe escape measures. Considering how hardcore is turning into flavor-of-the-month shit, you can expect a rise in shitters too.
 

Dr1f7

Scholar
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Jan 25, 2022
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I can't imagine something more lame and boring than "hardcore" world of warcraft LMAO how fucking obsessed do you need to be
 

Sarathiour

Cipher
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Jun 7, 2020
Messages
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I already ranted about it, I dunno why "hardcore wow" is a topic that pop-up every 6 months or so, but I can only explain it as a bait for people with severe Stockholm syndrome that can't let go of game experience that is now dead and buried in the past, and trick themselves into thinking that maybe restarting for nth time, except this time they're playing upside-down with their feet on the keyboard, hoping it will finally give them the fresh perspective on a two decade old games they longed for.
 
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Bester

⚰️☠️⚱️
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hoping it will finally give them the fresh perspective on a two decade old games they longed for.
Who needs a fresh perspective?

They play to get the feels they felt 20 years ago. You know, like listening to your favorite bands from your teenhood? It's normal.

And playing old games with mods is normal, too.
 

SerratedBiz

Arcane
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
4,143
As opposed to what, y'know, the Codex stands for, which includes replaying MORE than two-decade-old RPGs / games for reasons which apparently have nothing to do with the fact that games were simply designed better back then and that the original experience continues to surpass the current one by miles.

Retard.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
Incidentally, about spellcleave groups: It's mostly strat and mara where they added measures against it.

Season of Mastery was trying to push players to reach endgame as soon as possible (a stupid change, and part of what made Retail cancer), so it looks like they were okay with doing it to power through low level dungeons. You do get a huge exp penalty for getting assistance from high-level players though, so presumably you'd need to do a leveling spellcleave with equal level party members, which is much harder to organize.
 

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