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From Software Bloodborne. Discuss or die!

abija

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Percentage of PC sales for DS1 is pretty irrelevant. Game wasn't even supposed to come out on PC and the port was basically a Xbox VM.
 

Cowboy Moment

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According to the Ars Technica Steam data mining operation, close to 1.4 million players own DS1 on Steam alone: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/steam-gauge-addressing-your-questions-and-concerns/2/. And then there's whatever amount of retail copies that are GFWL only. Of course, most of this was at a price point of $7.50, but it served as good marketing for such a distinctive game series.

Lo and behold, DaS2 likely sold upwards of 500k on Steam at full price, and will sell a lot more once it goes on sale. Furthermore, a larger percentage of PC sales are purely digital, which is much more profitable to the publisher and developer (no retail cut or other costs related to a physical release, no annoying console platform holder bullshit like certification).

For how much manpower it takes to release a game on Steam, it's pretty much a goldmine for Namco and From.
 

Perkel

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http://a.pomf.se/jvcape.webm

Imo i think From cut the deal with Sony and it won't be named Deamon's Souls for two reasons:


1. It is too similar name to Dark Souls. Dark Souls is their IP and no one else. They probably don't want situation where some of Dark Souls fans may be confused about naming. Most of people who played DAS didn't play DES.

2. Beast Souls/Bloodborne could be their IP as well not Sony. I don't see how after DS1/2 success they could do third party exclusive without getting rights to game. For Sony imo this would still be a definitive win as next gen souls game would be for their platform only and if PS4 winning streak continues by the time of BS2 there could be only one valid platform to release game on becoming auto exclusive. Also probably Sony funded them big part of development cost ensuring they won't need to spend ton of money researching new stuff (in therm of GFX) for nex gen consoles. Also marketing deal.


One thing is sure. It is PS4 exclusive, it is proper next gen souls game without shitty PS3/Xbox version.
 

Wirdschowerdn

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If Sony has the world-wide publishing rights, then there's a zero chance of it ever going multiplatform. Unless they signed a deal where From Software would bear a huge brunt of the financial burden and in exchange only require time-exclusivity.
 

Perkel

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I was thinking mainly about BS2.

BS1 is done deal. It's cocreated with Sony Japan (like first DeS amd Deep Down) and it is 100% certain it will be Sony exclusive.
 

Perkel

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Sure they will base it on King's Field. That game sure sold a lot and it was just question of "when" they will do sequel to it or spiritual successor.
 

StaticSpine

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I really think the PS4 exclusiveness of the game can be a system-seller for a certain audience and Sony knows that.

According to vgcharts DeS sold 1,69 mln copies (and it's only retail)
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31689/demons-souls/

Beast can beat this number easily considering the praise the series get after DaS/DaS II.

I believe it's a very safe and beneficial move for Sony.
 

Cowboy Moment

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I really think the PS4 exclusiveness of the game can be a system-seller for a certain audience and Sony knows that.

According to vgcharts DeS sold 1,69 mln copies (and it's only retail)
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31689/demons-souls/



Beast can beat this number easily considering the praise the series get after DaS/DaS II.

I believe it's a very safe and beneficial move for Sony.

Sounds like an inflated number. It was at 500k sold in NA after a year on the market. Seems unlikely that the physical sales would basically double from that point. Beside the point though, it sold as much on a console with a ~40+ million install base. PS4 is still under 10m, and unlikely to break 20 before the end of 2015. DeS also sold very well in Japan, which had a good amount of PS3s, whereas PS4 sales over there are really bad.

I think they'll be fortunate to sell a million copies of it, to be perfectly honest. I do agree that it's beneficial to Sony, and certainly a decent attempt at selling some PS4s to the Japanese. What puzzles me is how it's beneficial to From.
 

Perkel

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Bollocks.

1. Early adopters of consoles are usually hardcore gamers that buys ton of games.
2. Since DeS Souls series became BIG. I don't know what are numbers for DS2 but it looks like it will brake 3-4mln coppies sold
3. It is first souls next gen game. Meaning ton of Dark and Deamon Souls fans will buy it to get their crack fix.
4. From is doing it because:
a) they don't want to pay for next gen developement cost alone (which include R&D)
b) FROM is not big company. They probably don't have money to create two games with their own funding B2B.
5. They will still sell shitload of copies even if game is not multiplatform.
 

StaticSpine

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What puzzles me is how it's beneficial to From.
Since the game is made in cooperation with Sony Japan Studio, it's partially (or maybe even fully) sponsored by Sony.
I'm sure the game is in development for quite some time (I mean long before Kadokawa bought From).
 

praetor

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Cowboy Moment
if it sold 500k in a year in NA alone, i really don't see how the slightly over 3 times that worldwide is an "inflated number" (unless the article stated otherwise)

Perkel
1. bollocks yourself. most early adopters of consoles nowadays are casuals who need to have the latest and greatest. it's pretty much the iphone effect
4. From used to be small, but now it's owned by a pretty big company (Kadokawa) so money is not an issue... although considering the game has surely been in development for some time (i'd say at least a year), your point does hold :)
i agree with the rest, the game can sell millions particularly since DaS2 was such a disappointment for many and a frustration for some, and now PB has Miyazaki back at the helm, without Team B's inexperience and retardation

i still hope there'll be a PC release, because i'm not shelling out that much money for a single game
 

Random

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I see nothing wrong with From making another console exclusive game, nor with them using their A-team to do it. The fact that they put their B-team on DSII simply means that they wanted their B-team to ganbatte and, hopefully, be sugoi. DSII is a success financially, and while the game itself has faults, it gave the young and less developed B-team much-needed experience and training by having them make a safe title that would be at least moderately successful regardless of whether the B-team sucked at their jobs or not. Turns out they don't suck, really, but you can see the glaring lack of experience all over the place.

And this means that the A-team was allowed to do what they do best and make something totally new, as if you look at From's long history of games, they like creating new settings more than developing old ones. I doubt there's going to be a DkSIII, for example.

Also, Sony undoubtedly paid From huge bux to develop an exclusive for them, and judging by the huge amount of PS4s sold (more than PS3s sold when Demon's Souls came out, and that was a success), it's not like their profits are going to be that much smaller for making it exclusive. It beats making it Xbone exclusive, at least. I'm sure that Sony is paying them at least enough to cover a portion of the lost PC audience, but regardless, the game's going to make a profit just by being a Souls game, and fuck, the original fanbase for Souls was on the PS3 exclusively, too. It's not a dangerous or a dumb move to make by any means.

Besides, Souls is good and all, but I want Armored Core.
 

Cowboy Moment

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Bollocks.

1. Early adopters of consoles are usually hardcore gamers that buys ton of games.
2. Since DeS Souls series became BIG. I don't know what are numbers for DS2 but it looks like it will brake 3-4mln coppies sold
3. It is first souls next gen game. Meaning ton of Dark and Deamon Souls fans will buy it to get their crack fix.
4. From is doing it because:
a) they don't want to pay for next gen developement cost alone (which include R&D)
b) FROM is not big company. They probably don't have money to create two games with their own funding B2B.
5. They will still sell shitload of copies even if game is not multiplatform.

First off, what the hell is it with this "next gen development cost R&D" bullshit? Have I unwittingly ventured into a parallel universe where Codex became neofag? What R&D? They already have an engine that runs on PC, and with the reused assets visible in these screens and gifs, Beast almost surely uses that engine as well. This isn't fucking Watch_Dogs, they're not going to spend millions carefully mocapping thousands of different animations for every action, on voiceacting everywhere, on making sure the lawn in front of every house is unique and special, and other nonsense that causes AAA games to cost so much. They're going to have higher-poly models, more effects, better lighting, and (hopefully) larger levels. You don't need R&D for that, they arguably already had these things in DaS2 but had to gut the game because of shitty 8 year old consoles. If anything, developing for the PS4 might be easier for them, as they won't have to bend themselves over backwards to fit the levels in 512 MB RAM.

DaS2 shipped 1.2 million copies across NA and EU, this is on both Xbox and PS3. If you add PC sales and Japanese PS3 sales, it's likely above 2 million as of now. This is 1.2 million on two consoles with a combined install base of over 100 million. Now, take the PS4. Install base unlikely to be over 20 million when Beast ships and basically no Japanese sales. Yep, I think around 1 million is a decent estimate. For a point of comparison, look at Infamous: SS, huge first-party exclusive, open world action game with jaw-dropping (for consoletards anyway) graphics, and it didn't even break 1.5 million as far as we know.

Sure, you can argue "oh, Souls fans will buy PS4s to play it", but that's a great unknown. They might, or they might not. I seriously doubt the Japanese will suddenly start loving the PS4 because of one game. For everyone else, no idea.

And the reason I find this a weird move, is that, assuming Beast is a proper Souls game, why not pitch the thing to Namco and make it multiplatform for easily double the sales? One reason I can think of is that From are extremely sick of shitty last-gen consoles, but couldn't find a publisher that would shoulder the risk of a next-gen only game. I find that somewhat hard to believe, but it's possible. It's still very surprising if it's essentially a Souls game, and not something new. I can only imagine that they end up with IP ownership and other perks, because otherwise they're letting themselves get royally fucked in the arse.


Cowboy Moment
if it sold 500k in a year in NA alone, i really don't see how the slightly over 3 times that worldwide is an "inflated number" (unless the article stated otherwise)

The 1.69 number is from VGChartz, which is mostly bullshit. Still, they claim it sold close to 900k in NA total, which would be quite an achievement for a physical release of a console game, which typically see extremely frontloaded sales. It's possible, but I think a total figure around 1.3 is more realistic.

huge amount of PS4s sold (more than PS3s sold when Demon's Souls came out, and that was a success

Not even close. Also, PS4 is selling like shit in Japan specifically.
 

DragoFireheart

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i agree with the rest, the game can sell millions particularly since DaS2 was such a disappointment for many and a frustration for some, and now PB has Miyazaki back at the helm, without Team B's inexperience and retardation

i still hope there'll be a PC release, because i'm not shelling out that much money for a single game

So Team A is working on Project Beast?

There's hope for the game at least.
 

Perkel

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First off, what the hell is it with this "next gen development cost R&D" bullshit? Have I unwittingly ventured into a parallel universe where Codex became neofag? What R&D? They already have an engine that runs on PC, and with the reused assets visible in these screens and gifs, Beast almost surely uses that engine as well. This isn't fucking Watch_Dogs, they're not going to spend millions carefully mocapping thousands of different animations for every action, on voiceacting everywhere, on making sure the lawn in front of every house is unique and special, and other nonsense that causes AAA games to cost so much. They're going to have higher-poly models, more effects, better lighting, and (hopefully) larger levels. You don't need R&D for that, they arguably already had these things in DaS2 but had to gut the game because of shitty 8 year old consoles. If anything, developing for the PS4 might be easier for them, as they won't have to bend themselves over backwards to fit the levels in 512 MB RAM.

DaS2 shipped 1.2 million copies across NA and EU, this is on both Xbox and PS3. If you add PC sales and Japanese PS3 sales, it's likely above 2 million as of now. This is 1.2 million on two consoles with a combined install base of over 100 million. Now, take the PS4. Install base unlikely to be over 20 million when Beast ships and basically no Japanese sales. Yep, I think around 1 million is a decent estimate. For a point of comparison, look at Infamous: SS, huge first-party exclusive, open world action game with jaw-dropping (for consoletards anyway) graphics, and it didn't even break 1.5 million as far as we know.

Sure, you can argue "oh, Souls fans will buy PS4s to play it", but that's a great unknown. They might, or they might not. I seriously doubt the Japanese will suddenly start loving the PS4 because of one game. For everyone else, no idea.

And the reason I find this a weird move, is that, assuming Beast is a proper Souls game, why not pitch the thing to Namco and make it multiplatform for easily double the sales? One reason I can think of is that From are extremely sick of shitty last-gen consoles, but couldn't find a publisher that would shoulder the risk of a next-gen only game. I find that somewhat hard to believe, but it's possible. It's still very surprising if it's essentially a Souls game, and not something new. I can only imagine that they end up with IP ownership and other perks, because otherwise they're letting themselves get royally fucked in the arse.


R&D is all things concerned with creation of game on new platform. It means their programmers needs to addopt new tech and learn new platform, their 3D artists needs to step up game, Sound tech also needs bump and so on.

For example GG changed completely how their engine handles textures and shaders so artists needed ton of time to get accustomed to that new way of doing things.

It doesn't mean FROM is on way of creating best looking game but changing for entirely new platform has downsides in therm of increased cost of developement.

We already know two games that are created in collaboration with Sony Japan. Deep Down and FROMs new game. Collaborations like that are created to share R&D so their developers can work faster on a game and company doesn't need to spend money learning new platform much.

As of why they didn't pitch it to Namco.

Most of people think that selling more coppies = more money to developers. Reality is that that doesn't mean anything. What matter is their deal with money holder. If they can fund game themselves they can make ton of money on it due to shit ton of royalties money.
Now if you don't have the money like Obsidian. You are mercenary and you just are paid for game developement but you get nill from game sales (putting betsheda metacritic shit aside).

So if Sony proposed them good deal in therm of money, offered people to ease developement on new platform, they will hype them game and they will do marketing... suddenly exlusive title like that may be more profitable than for example their previous game.

We don't know the deal. What we know is that they are doing it which means deal was good for them.

I also don't like FROM creating exclusive because it will mean shitty 30FPS to play.



@ praetor most of people who buy consoles at launch are hardcore gamers. They are the one who can create 30-40% attachment ratio for new game on system. Casual people buy things and then they play one game for year for few hours a month.

Iphone effect ? Is that new Bioware game ?
 

Hobo Elf

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R&D is all things concerned with creation of game on new platform. It means their programmers needs to addopt new tech and learn new platform, their 3D artists needs to step up game, Sound tech also needs bump and so on.

Ok, I think this is really the most important line in what you said. Do you really believe that devs are going to up their game now? Do you seriously believe that the games we will get on the PS4 and xbone will be technically that much more superior to the previous gen games? I can tell you now that every single game you will play on those consoles you will ask yourself "how come this isn't on the PS3? I don't see how this couldn't run on previous gen hardware". They aren't going to up their game at all, that requires effort and most importantly, more money. The only thing that will change is how devs can be a bit lazier now with optimization. We will still continue to get shit looking console games, as usual.
 

Perkel

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Is that real question ?

Last generation of consoles totally hold back progress.
 

Hobo Elf

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That's assuming that any development studio WANTS to make progress. Hint: they don't. It costs more money than they are willing to pay.
 

Blackguard

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That's assuming that any development studio WANTS to make progress. Hint: they don't. It costs more money than they are willing to pay.

Yes, because games haven't progressed at all in the past with new generations of hardware.
 

praetor

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@ praetor most of people who buy consoles at launch are hardcore gamers. They are the one who can create 30-40% attachment ratio for new game on system. Casual people buy things and then they play one game for year for few hours a month.

Iphone effect ? Is that new Bioware game ?

i don't know a single "hardcore gamer" who bought a PS4 yet... but i do know a couple dozen dudebros who bought it on release or a couple of months later because hey that's where BF4 is at. i'd like to know where you get your data (not implying mine is any more valid). what i call the "iphone effect" is when a new hyped tech toy comes out, there's a shitload of people who buy it just because it's new and hyped, regardless of it's practical use and/or price. it has always happened, but it seems to have grown by a sizeable percentage since the launch of the ihipsterphone
 

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