Game News Bloom - "Action adventure with a dose of RPG" on Kickstarter

[Burning Bridges]

I was just about going to say hats off for remaining so calm. You made a good first appearance on rpgcodex, but only half.

Hey, there are tons of people here who can program games, but are not doing it for a variety of reasons, the economic uncertainties most of all.
So be more careful, rpgcodex trashed many developers mounting a very high horse, but who couldn't program their way out of a paper bag.
Just saying.

But no problem, your art looks cool I give it to you that you have talent.

My gut feeling is this kickstarter is not gonna make it, better listen to some of the advice, especially about providing more tangible information. It takes a lot more than you have to sell a pig in a poke.

 

[Burning Bridges]

If you want a new type of game, do you ask the middle aged overweight guy to do it? Or do you ask someone "different"?

There is a reason the most creative people tend to be a bit different.... our brains are different...we create different things... sometimes it is just strange, other times it is simply beautiful and what the industry really needs

Dangerous terrain. Most great games were made by middle aged men (many of them overweight), not conceited hipster artfags. Number of sceptics increased by one.

 

[mondblut]

Do I seem like an "arteest" trying to push a random concept about a game of taking a dog for a walk ...but....the twist is the game is played from the point of view of the tail!! OMG!!

Yes. The "I am so different" part doesn't help, too.

2002 isn't that long ago...

That's why we call them newfags

I figured when people talk about "old games", they are speaking about things like Loom

We are speaking about things like Curse of Azure Bonds or Wizardry 7. Mileage may vary among Fallout 1 and Planescape fanboys.

you can't just hand people that today.

The concerns of the people of today is the last thing that comes to our collective mind - and I can speak for the entire Codex on this particular issue.

 

[Studio Fawn]

So be more careful, rpgcodex trashed many developers mounting a very high horse, but who couldn't program their way out of a paper bag.

This is the attitude I don't understand. Why does everyone seem to think the only thing you need to know to make a great game is the programming?

Programming is important, heck yea. But, it isn't everything (not by far). You need to understand the art...how things come together...how to manage 3d assets (how to work in both high and low polies).

You can be a great programmer, but that doesn't mean you know how to sculpt a creature, retopo it, uv it, texture it, rig it, animate it, and manage its shaders.

Of course, knowing all the artwork isn't enough to make the game either (but I'm not claiming I'm going to do this alone).

For some reason people seem to have the idea that artwork is just something you can pick up anywhere for a couple bucks. And that is just pretty crazy to anyone working in the industry. Sure, you can find some stock stuff. You can find packages of some generic guy or generic spell effects or whatever...but you can't find what you will need to make a really unique game.

If you want to buy that, it will cost you a TON (which is why I can do this project to such a high level for so much cheaper, because making it look and feel like a AAA game is my job).

Most great games were made by middle aged men (many of them overweight), not conceited hipster artfags.

Were they? Were they really?

List any of your favorite ANYTHING...and then go wiki who made it. You will find the creative forces behind your most innovative, most favorite, most creative and beautiful games (or movies) were done by some real characters.

Yea, they could be some middle aged fat guy (most won't be)... but, they aren't going to be your generic "dood". They will definitely have some pretty strange things about them.

Working around artists, I can tell you even the most seemingly normal guy working in a studio can get a bit more strange when you start to scratch the surface.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hit a sensitive nerve (I'm not calling you average joe or anything, don't take this personally...I have no clue who you are or what you do). But.... Average Joe doesn't make amazing stuff. Passionate nut-job joe does.

This is just how the world works. The ones who work their @$$ off and really dedicate themselves to their crafts are the ones who jump ahead (and that happens with people who are younger, after a certain age you burn out...you have a life...you slow down... and you just don't have the passion you once did).

Again, go look up your favorite ANYTHING and read about how it happened. Final Fantasy? Some young guy desperate to make it happen working his buns off (where the name final fantasy came from actually).

Oh, but I forgot, I'm just a hipster (lol really, what is up with this hipster thing? it really makes me laugh everytime I see it being used here ~_~ are you really using hipster as some horrible insult? LOL, omg, my cafelatte doesn't have fat-free milk in it! omgawd the horror lol).

But bonus points for fitting homophobia and artist-phobia (is that a thing?) into one :D ~high fives~ Omgawd gay people are trying to make us all gay, omg. Lol, them and the hipsters trying to make us all wear tight pants and stuff lol.

 

[mondblut]

This is the attitude I don't understand. Why does everyone seem to think the only thing you need to know to make a great game is the programming?

Because programming is the only thing you cannot make a great game without.

 

[Studio Fawn]

So.. a programmer coming and going "yea, give me money because i know how to program :D then I'm going to hire an artist that knows what he is doing to do the art stuff" is totally great.

But an artist going "yea, give me money because i know art stuff :D then i'm going to hire a programmer" is banana cakes?

You see, this is why I question how much you guys know about the industry (sorry sorry, I really don't mean that in an offensive way...simply....come on haha, you guys have some pretty wonky ideas about how games / the world works ....hipsters )

 

[Kz3r0]

Again, go look up your favorite ANYTHING and read about how it happened. Final Fantasy? Some young guy desperate to make it happen working his buns off (where the name final fantasy came from actually).

But bonus points for fitting homophobia and artist-phobia (is that a thing?) into one :D ~high fives~ Omgawd gay people are trying to make us all gay, omg. Lol, them and the hipsters trying to make us all wear tight pants and stuff lol.

[/QUOTE]
Are you saying that isn't true?

Also:

 

[Burning Bridges]

I'm not saying you're a hipster, but there are times you sound like one.

 

[Kz3r0]

So.. a programmer coming and going "yea, give me money because i know how to program :D then I'm going to hire an artist that knows what he is doing to do the art stuff" is totally great.

But an artist going "yea, give me money because i know art stuff :D then i'm going to hire a programmer" is banana cakes?

You see, this is why I question how much you guys know about the industry (sorry sorry, I really don't mean that in an offensive way...simply....come on haha, you guys have some pretty wonky ideas about how games / the world works ....hipsters )

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2066438441/haunts-the-manse-macabre

 

[mondblut]

You see, this is why I question how much you guys know about the industry

That industry which outsources its entire graphical content to thirdworldistans like russia? It must suck to be an artist these days

 

[Burning Bridges]

So.. a programmer coming and going "yea, give me money because i know how to program :D then I'm going to hire an artist that knows what he is doing to do the art stuff" is totally great.

But an artist going "yea, give me money because i know art stuff :D then i'm going to hire a programmer" is banana cakes?

You see, this is why I question how much you guys know about the industry (sorry sorry, I really don't mean that in an offensive way...simply....come on haha, you guys have some pretty wonky ideas about how games / the world works ....hipsters )

Industry my ass.

A programmer can link graphics / music etc in his/her game. If he cannot create it, he can buy it or have someone do it with very little input. For some type of game you don't even need an artist because there is enough PD material available for free. A programmer can even create art. Not as easily as you, and not everything, but often one can make it look just as cool with some patience.

Can you buy / order a program or pieces that fit your program? You can, but it's much harder. I am not belittleing artists, because talent is talent, I hope you don't try to belittle programmers.

 

[villain of the story]

You can be a great programmer, but that doesn't mean you know how to sculpt a creature, retopo it, uv it, texture it, rig it, animate it, and manage its shaders.

You can learn all of that in a couple months and if you got some talent/aptitude and perseverance, you can even do an okay job in a couple more months. You can't learn shit about programming an entire game in twice that time, though. You can get to somewhere with just programming but you aren't even inching towards anything without programming.

Ambitious mod projects are an excellent indicator of this: for every mod project that reaches some form of a release, beta or complete, there are 100 others that don't make it and the reason on at least the 50% of cases is the same: lack of a programmer. See my previous remark about the learning curve of asset creation. Even a talentless hack can do remarkable things given enough free time and there is nothing more plentiful than talentless hacks with nothing but time in the world and they are rather fond of daydreaming about creating shittier copycats of shitty popular games. And to give credit where due, I have seen a lot of mod projects with assets so professional and original, they put a lot of high profile games to shame.

Oh but why is the mod scene so bereft of programmers? Because programming is serious business. Any programmer worth his shit already has a RL job. And because programming is more of a multidisciplinary profession that requires an understanding of many other fields than what the "specialists" of those fields need to know.

And ultimately, you can be a programmer and know how to program models, animations, textures and even sounds. Ever heard of the term "programmer art"? That's where it comes from. Now, there is no such thing as "artist programming".

One reason that this kind of understanding is rather alien to a lot of developers is that it's a given that any development studio would have its own programmer or programmers. It's completely unthinkable to even plan a game project without a dedicated programmer or programmers.

For some reason people seem to have the idea that artwork is just something you can pick up anywhere for a couple bucks. And that is just pretty crazy to anyone working in the industry. Sure, you can find some stock stuff. You can find packages of some generic guy or generic spell effects or whatever...but you can't find what you will need to make a really unique game

That is funny, considering even the "AAA" games that sell millions use TONS of generic shit. I've forgotten the number of times I've seen a particular texture or heard a particular sound effect across multiple high profile games. Not to underestimate the importance of assets; on the contrary, art direction is of paramount importance but that applies whether you are using generic assets or original work. Even original and quality work will look like utter shit if not handled through good art direction, which is also why most games look like shit.

 

[St. Toxic]

What about click+point adventure games?

 

[Studio Fawn]

You can learn all of that in a couple months and if you got some talent/aptitude and perseverance, you can even do an okay job in a couple more months.

Lol ...uhh... soo... lol just great Sorry, just, speechless Yea, anyone can be an artist in just a couple months! That is totally how the world works :D

Now, there is no such thing as "artist programming".

Uhhm, I guess if you say so. ((This was done by a professional animator who decided to make a game. He started making it not knowing how to program....taught himself along the way ~while making the art~ ...took him a total of 2 years))

A programmer can even create art.

Totally :D Anyone can do art You don't even need to practice or anything. You are born with art talent or not :D ~i'm being pretty facetious here, you guys are too much haha. You realize I went to art school for 3 years right? Along side loads of people who works their buns off CONSTANTLY ...people sleeping in their cars...skipping meals....just....really simply working non stop for YEARS. What world are you guys living in? I'm not talking about pac-man pixel art...~

Really, you say not to disrespect programmers (which I didn't, I totally think programmers are mega important, and take years of study and major hard work to get to)....but you guys think doing high quality art is just something you can pick up in a couple months or do if you really felt like it?

Again, I don't mean to be mean...but.... this is why I question things around here This forum is ...uhh... yea.... really something haha.

 

[St. Toxic]

I think it may have more to do with this being a very gameplay oriented community. A programmer can certainly make a bunch of shitty placeholder assets without trying too hard and still make a game that's fun, but an artist either makes a bunch of great assets with no game to show for it or... he's also a programmer.

Also, art school for 3 years? I hope you aren't suggesting this as a merit, those things are just gathering pools for no-talent losers.

 

[Brother None]

Do you have any development experience, specifically putting a team together and managing production? You seem very dismissive of other people's feedback on this topic but I'm not entirely clear on what basis you claim superior knowledge.

I also think you're slightly skirting the point. Art isn't easy, but videogames can be made using simple and stock art. You can claim stylistic or retro reasons and get away with a lot, or just go "I'm an indie" and have a game that just doesn't look all that great, and it can still be very good and very popular. I don't think VVVVV or Minecraft sold based on art. On the other hand, videogames can not be made using "simple programming". That's the point the guys have been making. There is nothing essential about art or writing in videogames, while programming is absolutely essential. And yes, it is harder, significantly so, which is why artists/designers make $73-75K a year on average whereas programmers make $92K. They are more important, and people able to do it and do it well are a lot rarer.

I think this discussion is drifting a bit off-topic though. It's kind of tangential to the main discussion, but yes, I do feel a lot more secure with a videogame project if I know it has either a great producer at the helm or already has assembled a good set of programmers/artists/designers.

 

[FeelTheRads]

You realize I went to art school for 3 years right?

I went for 4 years. I win.

But seriously, take your tin can elsewhere. This here is obviously not your target audience. And you're just digging yourself deeper by claiming stuff like "you can't just hand people that today." and name-dropping shit like Final Fantasy (an obvious Codex favorite) and Loom just so you give off the impression that you actually know old games. Everything about you screams "hipster" and it's obvious from your approach on this game that it will result in just another indie piece of shit: OMG I TAKE THIS RANDOM THING FROM ZELDA AND PUT IT IN NOW MY GAME IS INNOVATIVE AND RETRO AT THE SAME TIME. WHAAT? MINDBOGGLING RIGHT?. Go search for an audience that actually falls for this kind of shit.

 

[St. Toxic]

Though, really, adventure games hinge on assets and not programming. Why so dismissive guise? We could add another tranny to our collection.

 

[Jarpie]

Haunts is a very good example of the game which has failed because the project was mismanaged, and the project lead actually has some credentials producing actual games, and they asked just 25k. I actually donated for Haunts since I liked it's concept and they had something to show already.

You are asking for 150k which is a lot of money, you don't have any credible credentials, you don't have team ready, you are spouting all the same shit what every other gamedeveloper is which we've heard billion times before. You know why Wasteland 2, Project Eternity, Dead State, Hero-U etc. have gotten a good reception in RPGCodex? Because they have history behind them and we know they have delivered games before.

Legends of Eisenwald also got good reception in here, and you know why? Because they already had gameplay to show, team ready and we can see what kind of game they are doing.

If you've read our forums you should know by now that RPGCodexers generally hate buzzwords, they hate modern rpgs because they are dumbed down (except Obsidian's games which have their own fans in here - me included) and we especially hate it when someone says "We need to modernize games for modern players".

You haven't given me any reasons on why I should pledge for Bloom other than "Trust me with your money!", have you actually lead any game project from start to the finish?

Edit: Also, Final Fantasy? Ow wow. Hint: we tend to really dislike JRPGs.

 

[Brother None]

You haven't given me any reasons on why I should pledge for Bloom other than "Trust me with your money!", have you actually lead any game project from start to the finish?

Maybe she worked on Stones of Arnhem...

 

[Metro]

 

[Dorateen]

May the almighty Cleve drive a stake through this one.

Harumph!

 

[Grunker]

If you want a new type of game, do you ask the middle aged overweight guy to do it? Or do you ask someone "different"?

We don't want a new type of game. We want a type of game so old no one is doing them anymore.

Sometimes motherfucker, sometimes you see through the tears of loss, the mists of hatred and the smoke from your crack-pibe, in between your random posts on why women suck or something, to formulate something so god-damned brilliant it transcends a forum post and becomes an embodiment of the spirit of the Codex. You don't do it often, but man, when you do:



Studio Fawn: Have you been linked to this thread yet?

 

[Shadenuat]

150k is extremely low. Very extremely low. A good art director costs about 150k a year.

A good art director needs to go on a diet then.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

If you want to make another thread about trannies, go for it and message me the link. Then I'll drop in and give everyone a lecture on the realities of transgenderism. Whatever you think you know about it, you are wrong (well, unless you have had more experience in that world than most the population...but, chances are you haven't).

ScottishMartialArts Kaiserin

Spambot's talking shit.