Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

[Late Bloomer]

This has proven to be the most interesting channel on Youtube. I enjoy this so darn much.

 

[conan_edw]

I don't really know if Fargo is actually based because of noticing that the other group couldn't really capture what Fallout is, even when he later got the pitch by Boyarsky and Anderson he felt something was still lacking and insisted that Tim gets involved. Add to that providing the name and encouraging the addition of the perks (or traits?) system for the original. Then he goes on to do something petty as slashing the bonuses (because of a bug and standing up for ones subordinates) for someone who led a project that went on to be a huge success unlike their other projects.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

I don't see why Timmy was so upset over his smaller bonus. A bonus is just that, you're not entitled to one. It was his decision to take responsibility for the delay-causing crash bug and that means accepting the punishment for it. Fargo did nothing wrong there.

Work is not kindergarten with pats on the head for good behavior and "punishments" for bad. It's about how much value you produce, period. You are rewarded in proportion to said value. He produced the most value, his reward for it was supposed to be the highest bonus.
He understands programming and that random bugs are a part of it. It happens to everyone in equal amounts. There was no call to "punish" the person who coded the bug.
There is nothing he did wrong. Fargo did two things wrong: tried to punish someone for a random event, stole money from Cain. I respected him much more before this story. Some of that respect went over to Cain now. He was the adult in the room that day.

 

[Maxie]

i dunno if im mishearing or retarded but i genuinely dont know when he refers to fargo and when to feargus

 

[Roguey]

He has family money to invest in businesses and licenses/acquisitions.

Nah, his background may have helped him get started, but he built Interplay from the ground up.

He promoted Feargus to Black Isle's director, the same guy who passed on Battleground Infinity when it was first pitched to him

Feargus was the guy who put his own job on the line going over his boss's head (that's the one who rejected it, calling it "stupid") to pitch Baldur's Gate directly to Fargo.

I don't see why Timmy was so upset over his smaller bonus. A bonus is just that, you're not entitled to one. It was his decision to take responsibility for the delay-causing crash bug and that means accepting the punishment for it. Fargo did nothing wrong there.

Trying to punish an individual developer for a single bug (an off by one error which is one of the most mundane of programming mistakes) is pretty insane management. And the impact of the bug (i.e., delay of the release) is not a programming issue at all but a an issue with management for setting too tight deadlines in the first place. But of course management never wants to take any responsibility for that... so instead the lost two star employees.

I wouldn't consider over three years a tight deadline.

 

[The_Mask]

The more colour we add to the painting, the more I'm starting to notice that both Fargo and Feargus have no place near any place of leadership.

"I would like to see Tim's story corroborated, though." is what I want to say, but I remember MCA had similar issues (May of Rage thread).

 

[Sigourn]

Boyarsky and Anderson resigning with Cain's letter is the broest move I can ever think of. You can even see the incredulity in Tim's eyes at 19:17.

 

[Spacer's Nugget]

That's some Butterfly Effect shit. If Fargo hadn't touched the bonus distribution, we probably wouldn't have Arcanum and Bloodlines.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Feargus was the guy who put his own job on the line going over his boss's head (that's the one who rejected it, calling it "stupid") to pitch Baldur's Gate directly to Fargo.

If your source is feargus, you can disregard it.

BioWare says Feargus saw it and was completely disinterested. But when he heard that they've got a big meeting about it with a competitor, suddenly he got very courteous, smiling and inviting. Told them not to attend that meeting and meet with him instead. The absolute weasel.

 

[taxalot]

hey cleve did you work on Fallout 1 and not tell us

 

[vazha]

Edit 2:
lol at Brian Fargo for cutting Tim Cain's bonus for not telling whose bug (for >=) it was.

PS: one of the best Cain Diaries yet. Approaching May of Rage tier. Only with not quite as much rage. Still great tho.

This one's more May of Regret or Sweet Sorrow

 

[d1nolore]

To be fair you have to make hard decisions as a manager, sometimes unpopular. Doesn’t make you clever to pick these things apart in hindsight over 20+ years later.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Fargo comes off as a person who does emotional decisions based on spite. No wonder he lost Interplay and his star talent.

 

[Roguey]

Fargo certainly loved Cain. As Tim said in the video, he demanded his presence on Fallout 2 because the others didn't have the "it" factor. He offered to fire the middle manager giving him problems. When Tim turned in his resignation, he spent over an hour trying to talk him out of it and only didn't spend longer because Tim had a dentist appointment and deliberately didn't talk to Brian again for the duration of the month. The bonus-docking was something he felt was absolutely necessary to crack down on sloppiness.

 

[Volrath]

What have become of this world, people on Codex implying that being a normal person is a positive.
Bad people are bad. Normal people are the worst.

We're the normal people now.

 

[StrongBelwas]

The bonus-docking was something he felt was absolutely necessary to crack down on sloppiness.

Thank god for that, Fargo managed to avoid any sloppiness in Fallout 2.

 

[Sigourn]

The bonus-docking was something he felt was absolutely necessary to crack down on sloppiness.

Programming bugs happen all the time. Fargo is a retard for thinking a bug is the result of "sloppiness".

 

[Roguey]

The bonus-docking was something he felt was absolutely necessary to crack down on sloppiness.

Programming bugs happen all the time. Fargo is a retard for thinking a bug is the result of "sloppiness".

and the bug was so simple it was
literally a for Loop that used a less
than equal instead of a less than

Sloppy work.

Thank god for that, Fargo managed to avoid any sloppiness in Fallout 2.

Well it did ship on time.

 

[Sigourn]

Sloppy work.

Happens all the time, man.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Roguey pisses me off with his gaslighting and dunning-kruger. Programmers ITT telling him it's standard practice. He insists "sloppy work" as if he could code hello world.

 

[agris]

Roguey pisses me off with his gaslighting and dunning-kruger. Programmers ITT telling him it's standard practice. He insists "sloppy work" as if he could code hello world.

It’s just his version of shit posting, best to ignore

 

[Cross]

Fargo certainly loved Cain. As Tim said in the video, he demanded his presence on Fallout 2 because the others didn't have the "it" factor. He offered to fire the middle manager giving him problems. When Tim turned in his resignation, he spent over an hour trying to talk him out of it and only didn't spend longer because Tim had a dentist appointment and deliberately didn't talk to Brian again for the duration of the month. The bonus-docking was something he felt was absolutely necessary to crack down on sloppiness.

Considering Fargo forced them to add the Temple of Trials, it doesn't seem like he was serious about giving Tim the creative freedom he wanted.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The bug may have been simple, but wth Interplay near bankrupcy at the time, delaying a crucially important release by a few months doesn't exactly help.

 

[Infinitron]

These were a bunch of people still in their 30s making it up as they went along. The entire gaming industry in the 1990s was full of these sorts of fuckups as it grew into a multi-million dollar business. An entire generation of RPG studios collapsed and was replaced during those years. Punishing a guy for programming errors? Maybe that is what you were supposed to do. Who knew?

 

[Infinitron]

TimCain is reading your posts!

I want people to listen to these stories and gain insight into the game development process, but I don't want people to view all of the actors in these stories as either heroes or villains. Please listen with nuance, as most people in these stories made both good and bad decisions, myself included.