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Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

Roguey

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I've said it before, but every game dev I've seen who's talked about "imposter syndrome" is someone bad at their job feeling sad over an honest assessment of their abilities.

Though the Dunning-Kruger people are pretty bad too, likely even worse. So many games to make, so few people actually good at it.
 

Warhawk47

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Career talk. If you can design a game that you like to play and you think it's great, then it is. For you, at least. But that caveat is no demerit in art. Some of the best art in the world was created by people whose work wasn't appreciated by others or compensated for at the time, only to be rediscovered much later. But if you're going for a product, to sell it to make a living, then suddenly you have to think about pecking order, office politics, professional credibility, review scores and so on. You have to compromise ideas for the sake of appeal or accessibility, even though neither of those would have held back the design for your personal enjoyment. Impostor syndrome is mostly about feeling inadequate in the hierarchy and the rat race. The only time it applies in personal pursuits is if you knew for a fact that you had created something better in the past.
 

Bad Sector

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It was an interesting video to see how they did it in Arcanum even if the overall concept was something other games had already done the same or something similar before. As someone mentioned in the comments i'd be curious about a video for their technical inspirations.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
If he said that people go on forums and throw out their ideas that they think are "brilliant", when in reality none of these people have ever designed a game and don't understand some of the nuances/difficulties that go into the process of designing a game, that would have been a fair argument, though a bit of a cop-out. Just because someone hasn't designed a game before doesn't mean their ideas don't have merit. A good developer can parse the shit takes/ideas from the ones that have merit, and then take these raw, unrefined, ideas and build upon them/edit them/hone them, into something that is actually good.

Instead, people that have these ideas must be "insecure" lmao? I can see words such as arrogant, autistic, or Dunning-Kruger being used, but insecure is not how I would describe the psychology of the people he's describing in the video.

You see this kind of argumentation a lot more now. "Oh you're not a woman so how you can have anything meaningful to say about women's issues". "You're not black so you don't have any idea/contribution about the state of blacks and their culture in America". And so on and so forth. When someone who doesn't know shit about Physics/Chemistry/Mathematics tries to state bold ideas about these fields, an actual Physicist/Chemist/Mathematician would have no issues refuting their ideas/suggestions/theories in a well thought out and reasoned argument. For some reason though, we don't see the same thing in the social sciences, in politics, or in fields such as cinema and game development. I shouldn't say some reason, because the reason is obvious, these are fields that are far more abstract than the hard sciences, and they require a lot more creativity and philosophy to properly understand. This leads to many people in these fields not actually understanding/knowing the field/industry as much as they think, and when they are pressed to defend their beliefs/practices, they have to fall back on arguments from authority/credibility to defend themselves, since their actual capability/knoweldge in their field/industry/career/etc is not very high.
 
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Shadenuat

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Funny I have opposite opinion from coder who worked in mobile and then on microprose. He said sometimes they d call whole office on a gathering and ask if anyone had idea for an interesting game. And noone could propose anything interesting and exciting. It was like an actual problem.
 

abija

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May 21, 2011
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Calling people out of the blue with ideas for a game is a bit different than people working on a project having ideas about it. Tim keeps notes of settings/game ideas so obviously "gimme an idea for a game" is not considered a mundane task.

ItsChon he meant you are insecure if you present your idea on a forum and react badly when it's rejected, especially if you have no experience.
 

Shadenuat

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You never really have experience if you r trying to make something new.

Whole entertainment industry is like we hire you if you have min 5 years of experience with this software that came 2 months ago and you r going to be mopping floors like in gothic 2 first for 7 years and your ideas dont matter.

I see no reason to further mock any kind of imaginative people whats left.
 

flyingjohn

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Just because someone hasn't designed a game before doesn't mean their ideas don't have merit.
No, but everybody can make a idea that seems good in 5 minutes. Actually implementing said idea is the designer's job and all you have really done is added more work to his table in trying to fit somebodies vision into your own ideas.

Take ideas, but if you can't implement them in your vision within a small time frame, then drop it. The problem is that people don't agree with that and start being annoying and demanding you implement their great ideas they thought in less then 10 minutes while being on the toilet.
 

Shadenuat

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Annoying is when ppl pm you and beg you to draw furry porn of their 2 favorite characters.

If I was dev I d use my forums and community as a free idea buffet I can steal without repercussions.
But what do I know.
 

Wesp5

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If I was dev I d use my forums and community as a free idea buffet I can steal without repercussions.

This could become problematic if people sue you when they think you stole their ideas. I know that JMS, the creator of the "Babylon 5" TV show always asked people to not post any ideas otherwise he won't read the boards!
 
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Messages
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Tim's really hyped up about Arcanum's procedural generation


zzzzzzzzzzzzz from me though


I think I understand now thanks to this video why devs like proc generation so much. It's not not always a laziness in design department, it's just that implementing a procedural generation is more appealing and exciting to a mind primarly focused on programming or systems.
 

flyingjohn

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There are plenty of seagull designers out there, not enough programmer's designers
Modern video game development discourages multiple roles per person unfortunately.
But I agree that any designer needs to understand the game engine/tools to even remotely make something viable. It also helps to see through programmer's bullshit when they lie about what can be made in said engine.
 

Roguey

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1) Fallout is his best game going by how many people talked about it in a positive way

2) The Outer Worlds is his best selling game by far, Codex seething

3) His highest rated games on metacritic are Fallout and Pillars of Eternity, Codex seething

4) His longest game is Bard's Tale Construction Set since you can make an endless amount of content with it, Arcanum coming in second

5) Arcanum is his most original game, but Fallout could also qualify

6) One could argue many of his games are bad because they're buggy

7) ToEE could also be bad because of the dialogues, pacing, and quests

"A good game is a game you like" tsk.

Here's an objective way to analyze things: "What were the goals and how well were they accomplished?" There is some level of subjectivity to this on account of how a game can't be all things to everyone (and games made for the broadest possible audience will turn off a lot of people who want something that caters to their niche), but you can get by it if you can think from more than just your own perspective.
 

abija

Prophet
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May 21, 2011
Messages
3,296
He said himself he would make a bad reviewer. What I found wierd is how many times he mentions reviews (not in last movie in general). Does he mean some specific reviewers or people he trust or reviews in general? Would really suck if devs actually care about reviews in general...
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
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4) His longest game is Bard's Tale Construction Set since you can make an endless amount of content with it, Arcanum coming in second
Wait? He worked on BTCS? Is this why FARGO refuses to make an enhanced BTCS DLC for TBTT?

Mobygames BTCS

DOS credits (1991)​

21 people (19 professional roles, 2 thanks) with 29 credits.

Well…. How the fuck did I miss that? see, told ya I fucking hardly ever look at gaming credits seriously. It is just blah blah blah blah….



Ok, I’ll watch this one. Dunno if there are other Bardstale related vids.
 
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Roguey

Codex Staff
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Would really suck if devs actually care about reviews in general..
Obviously devs care about reviews. Human nature, we want feedback and reviews are the best way to get it.
They should stop caring about scores, particularly metacritic's obviously-imprecise aggregate score. Words matter more than getting a "90."

On the other hand, Steam's simple up/down vote is probably worth paying attention to. If more than half the people who bought a game don't like it, you've clearly messed up
 

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