Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

[Shadenuat]

You never really have experience if you r trying to make something new.

Whole entertainment industry is like we hire you if you have min 5 years of experience with this software that came 2 months ago and you r going to be mopping floors like in gothic 2 first for 7 years and your ideas dont matter.

I see no reason to further mock any kind of imaginative people whats left.

 

[flyingjohn]

Just because someone hasn't designed a game before doesn't mean their ideas don't have merit.

No, but everybody can make a idea that seems good in 5 minutes. Actually implementing said idea is the designer's job and all you have really done is added more work to his table in trying to fit somebodies vision into your own ideas.

Take ideas, but if you can't implement them in your vision within a small time frame, then drop it. The problem is that people don't agree with that and start being annoying and demanding you implement their great ideas they thought in less then 10 minutes while being on the toilet.

 

[Shadenuat]

Annoying is when ppl pm you and beg you to draw furry porn of their 2 favorite characters.

If I was dev I d use my forums and community as a free idea buffet I can steal without repercussions.
But what do I know.

 

[flyingjohn]

Annoying is when ppl pm you and beg you to draw furry porn of their 2 favorite characters.

 

[Roguey]

There are plenty of seagull designers out there, not enough programmer's designers

 

[Wesp5]

If I was dev I d use my forums and community as a free idea buffet I can steal without repercussions.

This could become problematic if people sue you when they think you stole their ideas. I know that JMS, the creator of the "Babylon 5" TV show always asked people to not post any ideas otherwise he won't read the boards!

 

[Shadenuat]

Seems the cooler thing creator makes the more of a schizo they are.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Tim's really hyped up about Arcanum's procedural generation


zzzzzzzzzzzzz from me though

I think I understand now thanks to this video why devs like proc generation so much. It's not not always a laziness in design department, it's just that implementing a procedural generation is more appealing and exciting to a mind primarly focused on programming or systems.

 

[flyingjohn]

There are plenty of seagull designers out there, not enough programmer's designers

Modern video game development discourages multiple roles per person unfortunately.
But I agree that any designer needs to understand the game engine/tools to even remotely make something viable. It also helps to see through programmer's bullshit when they lie about what can be made in said engine.

 

[None]

Tl;dw Tim doesn't like criticism.

 

[Roguey]

1) Fallout is his best game going by how many people talked about it in a positive way

2) The Outer Worlds is his best selling game by far, Codex seething

3) His highest rated games on metacritic are Fallout and Pillars of Eternity, Codex seething

4) His longest game is Bard's Tale Construction Set since you can make an endless amount of content with it, Arcanum coming in second

5) Arcanum is his most original game, but Fallout could also qualify

6) One could argue many of his games are bad because they're buggy

7) ToEE could also be bad because of the dialogues, pacing, and quests

"A good game is a game you like" tsk.

Here's an objective way to analyze things: "What were the goals and how well were they accomplished?" There is some level of subjectivity to this on account of how a game can't be all things to everyone (and games made for the broadest possible audience will turn off a lot of people who want something that caters to their niche), but you can get by it if you can think from more than just your own perspective.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

I have a feeling Tim would turn out to be a pretty bad game reviewer/analyst.

 

[Grauken]

I have a feeling Tim would turn out to be a pretty bad game reviewer/analyst.

Most game devs would be. And vice versa

 

[abija]

He said himself he would make a bad reviewer. What I found wierd is how many times he mentions reviews (not in last movie in general). Does he mean some specific reviewers or people he trust or reviews in general? Would really suck if devs actually care about reviews in general...

 

[Grauken]

Would really suck if devs actually care about reviews in general..

Obviously devs care about reviews. Human nature, we want feedback and reviews are the best way to get it.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

4) His longest game is Bard's Tale Construction Set since you can make an endless amount of content with it, Arcanum coming in second

Wait? He worked on BTCS? Is this why FARGO refuses to make an enhanced BTCS DLC for TBTT?

Mobygames BTCS

DOS credits (1991)​

21 people (19 professional roles, 2 thanks) with 29 credits.

Programming	Timothy Cain Greg Christensen John Philip Britt
Art	Cheryl Austin Todd J. Camasta Brian Giberson David Nelson Robert Nesler Hayato Ochiai Tom Tanaka

Well…. How the fuck did I miss that? see, told ya I fucking hardly ever look at gaming credits seriously. It is just blah blah blah blah….

Spoiler

DOS credits (1991)​

21 people (19 professional roles, 2 thanks) with 29 credits.

Programming	Timothy Cain Greg Christensen John Philip Britt
Art	Cheryl Austin Todd J. Camasta Brian Giberson David Nelson Robert Nesler Hayato Ochiai Tom Tanaka
Music	Charles Deenen Jim Sproul
Testing	Jacob R. Buchert III Jim Gardner Christopher Taylor Feargus Urquhart
Isil Thania (sample scenario)	Jacob R. Buchert III Timothy Cain Jim Gardner Thomas R. Decker Christopher Taylor
Producer	Thomas R. Decker
Special Thanks To	Michael Quarles Troy P. Worrell
Manual by	Timothy Cain Thomas R. Decker
Manual Illustrations	Hayato Ochiai
Manual Design	Vincent DeNardo
Executive Producer	Brian Fargo

Ok, I’ll watch this one. Dunno if there are other Bardstale related vids.

 

[Roguey]

Would really suck if devs actually care about reviews in general..

Obviously devs care about reviews. Human nature, we want feedback and reviews are the best way to get it.

They should stop caring about scores, particularly metacritic's obviously-imprecise aggregate score. Words matter more than getting a "90."

On the other hand, Steam's simple up/down vote is probably worth paying attention to. If more than half the people who bought a game don't like it, you've clearly messed up

 

[abija]

Obviously devs care about reviews. Human nature, we want feedback and reviews are the best way to get it.

How is some mongoloid that cares more about maximizing controversy or pushing some agenda a good way to get it (nevermind best).

 

[Grauken]

Obviously devs care about reviews. Human nature, we want feedback and reviews are the best way to get it.

How is some mongoloid that cares more about maximizing controversy or pushing some agenda a good way to get it (nevermind best).

Well, at least they are more polite than you. Being an asshole only works here, in the real world, not so much

 

[luj1]

1) Fallout is his best game going by how many people talked about it in a positive way

2) The Outer Worlds is his best selling game by far, Codex seething

3) His highest rated games on metacritic are Fallout and Pillars of Eternity, Codex seething

4) His longest game is Bard's Tale Construction Set since you can make an endless amount of content with it, Arcanum coming in second

5) Arcanum is his most original game, but Fallout could also qualify

6) One could argue many of his games are bad because they're buggy

7) ToEE could also be bad because of the dialogues, pacing, and quests

"A good game is a game you like" tsk.

Here's an objective way to analyze things: "What were the goals and how well were they accomplished?" There is some level of subjectivity to this on account of how a game can't be all things to everyone (and games made for the broadest possible audience will turn off a lot of people who want something that caters to their niche), but you can get by it if you can think from more than just your own perspective.

TLDR everything Black Isle and Troika made was good

everything after was trash. 2004 was the cutoff point as everyone well knows

 

[Bad Sector]

Reviews can be useful but IMO nowadays by far most useful are Let's Play videos where the player comments on what is going on. These will give easily 10x more information than any review.

Assuming they're done in good faith and the player engages with the game of course, i've seen some videos where the player is more interested in making a clown of themselves and miss (or worse, willfully misinterpret) a bunch of stuff in a game and then rages about it.

 

[ds]

On the other hand, Steam's simple up/down vote is probably worth paying attention to. If more than half the people who bought a game don't like it, you've clearly messed up

Steam aggregate ratings are a pretty accurate measurement how well a game fulfills expectations set by the store page and other marketing material but it's pretty bad as an absolute score - and completely useless for comparing games from different genres.

 

[Terra]

There are plenty of seagull designers out there, not enough programmer's designers

Modern video game development discourages multiple roles per person unfortunately.
But I agree that any designer needs to understand the game engine/tools to even remotely make something viable. It also helps to see through programmer's bullshit when they lie about what can be made in said engine.

It does, furthermore, you may also be typecast. I recall being asked point blank in one interview why I wasn't applying for a programming role within a company over the design position I was applying for, as though my preference for what I want to do wasn't a factor. HR & whoever else is involved in the hiring process will think they know what you *should* be doing more than you do and you may find yourself unable to move out of a particular discipline, even if you could potentially have worn multiple hats in the past. It actually keeps people that have both technical & creative sides out of fields like design and therefore it should come as little surprise that the more well-rounded candidates (rare though they are) are screened out (and that's if hybrid roles even exist in any capacity in the first place). Outside of indie, gone are the days where a couple of people get together and just get shit done, not even worrying about who is doing what.

And in my experience, true "imposters" don't feel imposter syndrome, even when they should. You can mock and laugh at these seagull designers all you like yet they typically exist within a web of likeminded shirkers and thus get away with continued inadequacy while moving through life quite seamlessly.

 

[Infinitron]

I talk about my ideas on how to tell stories in MMORPGs, pulled from a talk I gave at GDC Online in 2010.

The talk in question:

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Why does he wear so many popsicle shirts?