Can someone summarize to me the appeal of JRPGs?

[Damned Registrations]

I mean, FFT and Tactics Ogre are basically X-COM combat too, minus the fog of war and with damage being dependant on stats as well as weaponry. Well, and destructable terrain, but Troubleshooter is also missing that.

Brigandine is definitely a hybrid. Character levels and builds make a huge impact on the gameplay. It's not comparable to something like Master of Magic where you can just throw troops at the enemy until you win, and there's no economy to speak of.

If you want something more strictly in the vein of traditional japanese srpgs, there's disgaea to look at as well, though when played properly, it's more of a puzzle game than anything else. It gets a reputation as being all about grinding to reach silly numbers, but that couldn't be further from the truth, it's a game where a squad of level one units with no equipment can clear a map of enemies with levels in the hundreds.

Some other noteworthy examples would be Vandal Hearts and it's sequel, which I think was actually a decent game but my memory on that is quite fuzzy. Or Vanguard Bandits, which has a unique combat system revolving around stamina and fatigue management and selecting various types of defenses or counter attacks instead of units passively taking hits.

FFT is really the gold standard in my book however. I'd maybe throw Front Mission 3 up there as well. Haven't played the rest of that series to weigh in on them, but FM3 has very solid gameplay, aside from some weird hiccups concerning vehicle ejection and the ability of a man in an orange jumpsuit to overpower 6 story tall mech with a pistol. FM3's various weapon types offered a variety of viable tactics, and the gameplay itself rewarded overwheling the enemy with the chance to capture enemy mechs intact instead of just a slightly faster resolution to the battle. It's certainly lacking in pace though.

 

[Nutmeg]

Front Mission 3 has a broken pilot kill mechanic, IIRC.

Front Mission 5 is very good, probably the best. I wrote a very long review on it somewhere on this forum.

 

[Vic]

yeah, FFT and FE (Awakening is my favorite) are the best imo

 

[Nutmeg]

Play Gungnir. Everyone should play it. Don't be discouraged by the busy UI, it's well worth adjusting to because it is in a class of its own in terms of challenge.

 

[Vic]

I looked into it when you said it earlier and it looked interesting, might emulate it if I have the time again

 

[Drakortha]

The appeal of JRPG's is that they're shit. And it so happens a lot of people like eating and consuming shit on a daily basis.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

there is no such thing as a JRPG without grind, you might think you're not grinding while you go from point A to point B following the story and fighting all those monsters, but that's exactly what you're doing.

The act of grinding is specifically going out of your way to accrue XP/$/etc.
Words have specific meanings so we can understand each other beyond yes/no, up/down, it's quite useful.

 

[Vic]

there is no such thing as a JRPG without grind, you might think you're not grinding while you go from point A to point B following the story and fighting all those monsters, but that's exactly what you're doing.

The act of grinding is specifically going out of your way to accrue XP/$/etc.
Words have specific meanings so we can understand each other beyond yes/no, up/down, it's quite useful.

grinding also means repeating the same mindless action over and over, which you totally do while playing through the game. If you'd take out the story and just leave the gameplay, all you'd have was grind.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

grinding also means repeating the same mindless action over and over

Not necessarily, you could be grinding something that requires a lot of attention.

 

[Vic]

grinding also means repeating the same mindless action over and over

Not necessarily, you could be grinding something that requires a lot of attention.

I just throw money at it.

 

[banana]

The appeal of JRPGs over WRPGs is usually:
1. Usually high production values for art, music, and bug-testing.
2. Less of a downer world/setting than WRPGs.
3. Less reddit-brained faux/feigned cynicism, especially about le religion.
4. The style of art and music is generally more upbeat, and features more spritework compared to 3D prerendered sprites. When they have prerendered backgrounds, they are usually very nice at least after about Star Ocean 2.
5. Combat and exploration is designed to be soothing rather than frustrating. It's rare to find something that is on a timer and screws you out of something.
6. While the metagame is often completely fucked (looking at you, FF6), the game mechanics are usually solid and original.
7. The game mechanics are usually familiar and without many of the gotchas or lateral thinking common to WRPGs and roguelikes (from which WRPGs get many of their mechanics).
8. While the story replayability is usually nil, the mechanical replayability is usually there.
9. Modding them to be less retarded doesn't usually require a shitload of asm hacks. You can find a way to rebalance them with just data edits.
10. Excellent fan service.

JRPGs often lose to WRPGs by having:
1. A very limited selection of plots and stock characters.
2. Absolutely horrendous voice acting. Even games with generally good voice acting like FF12 still have shitty Japanese speaking tropes like repeating the last phrase spoken to you, the sex gasps women make, and things that just don't make sense in a non-Japanese context.
3. Bizarre sprite choices in some cases (SaGa Frontier 2 duel sprites).
4. At least one character that annoys the shit out of me in every game.
5. Plot holes galore.
6. 100% on rails stories.
7. Stuff that will normies look at you askance should you play them in public.
8. Way too many boring random battles, and almost no difficulty or surprises in 99.9% of battles.

 

[pakoito]

What are some JRPGs with good combat and character building and minimal story?

Crystal Project and Monster Sanctuary, though they both also involve some platforming in between combat. The combat and character building are top tier in both games, in completely different styles. Both have a very, very heavy focus on exploration, with a ton of very rewarding secrets, nonlinear path through the game, and no handholding. Crystal Project in particular is a masterclass of open world design; it'd still be a great game even if the combat was total ass, so the fact that it's got excellent combat with perfect information (You can see all enemy stats and their intents for the turn in battle, so it's akin to playing assymmetrical chess) and incredible variety in both enemy and potential party design really puts it over the top. I think it's my favourite game of all time, though I'm biased towards exploration.

If your definition of JRPG is 'made by Japanese devs' rather than the classic style of turn based combat with a row of party members, then Labyrinth of Touhou 2. It's basically dungeon crawling blobber crack. Your party consists of 12 characters rotatating through a 4 person front line, selected from a roster of ~50 unique characters with wildly different uses. Combat has a lot of variety; some fights will be all about status effect, buffs, debuffs, alpha strikes, staying power, exploiting elemental weaknesses or resistances or some combination of the above or unique gimmicks. Selecting the right team to handle a fight is like crafting a key to fit a lock and there are many ways to go about it. Absolute top tier combat imo.

I'm fucking embarrassed that after decades of gaming I have to agree with Damned here.

Why are there so few teambuilding-focused games?

 

[Nutmeg]

3. Less reddit-brained faux/feigned cynicism, especially about le religion.

God is evil and religion is a scam is like the plot of 80% of JRPGs lol

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Oh? So factual representation?

 

[Damned Registrations]

3. Less reddit-brained faux/feigned cynicism, especially about le religion.

God is evil and religion is a scam is like the plot of 80% of JRPGs lol

Eh, maybe like 10%. It's certainly a popular background theme though. You can't really do much with a benevolent god unless it's baby's first story, as it raises all sorts of really obvious questions, like 'Why the fuck is god resurrecting my party but never anyone else, or interfering in any other ways?'

 

[Baron Tahn]

The appeal of the jrpgs I played was science fantasy settings. The West seems determined to make nothing but generic fantasy slop and fairly vanilla scifi.

 

[Taxnomore]

The appeal is that people are atheists and they get to kill God everytime.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

you guys are reading way too much into this as per usual
god killing is a trope in jrpgs because its a cool power fantasy

 

[Melcar]

Cute anime waifus

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

If you buy real dolls from certain companies..... they become bangable waifus even with ai talkie talkie after or during fuckie fuckie and suckie suckie. Good time joe for you.. yes? No?

 

[Elttharion]

Cute and funny waifus and getting new tutorials when I am 50 hours into the game

 

[mediocrepoet]

you guys are reading way too much into this as per usual
god killing is a trope in jrpgs because its a cool power fantasy

It was a thing in early D&D for a similar reason, whether God or gods.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

At a certain point the PCs are so strong killing gods is the only thing left.

However the JRPG trope may at least somewhat allude to the admission and later expulsion of Christians from Japan. They've been pretty hostile towards foreign religions ever since.

Could also be that in eastern religions mortals ascending to godhood is a fairly common trope while in the west that's generally seen as blasphemous. Classic greeks and norse were always killing gods.

 

[mediocrepoet]

At a certain point the PCs are so strong killing gods is the only thing left.

However the JRPG trope may at least somewhat allude to the admission and later expulsion of Christians from Japan. They've been pretty hostile towards foreign religions ever since.

Could also be that in eastern religions mortals ascending to godhood is a fairly common trope while in the west that's generally seen as blasphemous. Classic greeks and norse were always killing gods.

That's an interesting insight. I wouldn't say the Japanese are overly hostile to foreign religions, there are still Japanese Christians.

However, in Japanese Buddhism, ascending to Buddha-hood and becoming divine is literally the point, even though divinity in that sense isn't really like the Christian God. I'm not clear whether Shinto has a similar ascension idea or not though.

 

[Ash]

which ones have you tried?

Just Chrono Trigger and FF 7, but it was long ago and I haven't finished them.

I also heard good things about Vagrant Story and Xenogears (I think?).

Each of these four games are by themselves VERY different games. There is no universal appeal. As with western RPGs, I only like particular subsets of JRPG:

1. A high degree of gameplayfag effort a must.
2. Non-offensive art is maybe a requirement (e.g Final Fantasy V, early Pokemon that was too technologically-primitive to go full anime and so remained heavily abstract), but ideally high-effort art is desired (e.g Parasite Eve, Koudelka, Final Fantasy 9).
3. Preferably minimal anime tropes/Japanese cringe, but I most definitely can make some exceptions if it isn't too much. The stylization and subject matter matters. Ideally I want a degree of maturity, taste and class, as opposed to hyperactive kids acting like they're hopped up on E. Don't take this the wrong way though, it doesn't mean there cant be lighthearted moments, cartoon stylization, or immature writing. There is just a line that shouldn't be crossed. Don't act like that stupid annoying kid in class, a pathetic simp, or a creepy loli fan. Somehow a non-neglible amount of Japanese content contains degrees of this, but you'd be remiss to write off all Japanese content as a result. There should be something for everyone, just as cRPGs offer something for everyone with its diverse styles from Skyrim (retards) to Baldur's Gate (degens & storyfags) to Diablo (autists) to Deus Ex (monocled fellows).

So for example, under these rules I refuse to play any Persona as they are centered around teen high school drama & the art style is typical low effort anime. However, I enjoy Final Fantasy 8 as while it starts with high school drama theme it blends it with plenty action, hi-tech, sci-fi and fantasy themes from the get-go. Soon enough you're on a globe-spanning adventure visiting hi-tech futuristic cities, discovering ancient mystical burial sites, or even engaging in some fantastical time-travelling. The art is high effort as fuck, and the gameplay is rather complex and engaging despite its flaws, especially with mods.

Turn-based "blobber" style, SRPG/Turn-based Tactics, RTw/P, Action RPG, Dungeon Crawler it matters not as long as the above rules are followed.

This limits me to only a sub-section of JRPG scattered around all over. Squaresoft are my main guys however as they were clearly ahead of the pack in every way + the westaboo fetish they had goes a long way in being...great. Like the west was back then.