CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

"The trailer for Cyberpunk 2077 strikes me as GTA skinned-over with a generic 80s retro-future, but hey, that's just me."

I wish I had known William Gibson said this weeks ago when I got into an argument with a bunch of shills for saying the cyberpunk in CP 2077 is shallow at best. It would have been perfect, because they were using a Wikipedia definition that had part of a Gibson quote. They told me he is the authority on the subject and locked my thread. Would have been perfect.

..but it's true..... and I still can't believe that this "RPG" (LMAO) doesn't have a speech check system.

 

[Old Hans]

Sure, but I am annoyed by the fact I hear everyone saying consoles should've been dropped. There are different optimization techniques used to render vast amounts of data. RDR2 is a perfect example how you can have big, handcrafted world with very good performance. Also there aren't whole lot of cars in Night City compared to horses in Saint Denis. It's not about streaming when we talk about horse-speed being limited in towns, I have the game loaded on HDD and had no trouble no-cliping with a trainer. I was surprised the game would take 2 seconds to load the assets from the other side of the map when I teleported from New Austin to Annesburg. It's more so you won't run over pedestrians with your horse which is questionable design choice but not related to technical aspects rather than user experience.

Rockstar did show they can make non-linear games, like they made shopkeepers remember the last time you robbed them, or people react differently based on your honor, or have various of elements of story change around your decisions. You essentially have 2 sets of missions for... Well that's a spoiler. Rockstar chose linear cinematic experience which does get annoying at times but is so awesome to replay. I just love that mission where you and Micah shoot up entire town. I don't mind it doesn't allow me to sneak around when the narrative is set up for a shootout. Cyberpunk 2077 promised a lot of things and they are underwhelming.

I do not trash the game, I am deeply disappointed I compare and criticize the stuff so everyone is aware the game is not just T-poses, low framerate and object popping. I've told my friends to stay away from this game until developers fix it to somewhat enjoyable level.

it really comes down to the people working on the game. A team like Rockstar know all the tricks of the trade. meanwhile CDPR is like "lets just have police teleport behind the player"

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

Today, I got my 499SEK back from these guys. Got an email about it. and when I checked my PayPal account, it was there. Can only wait for them to send me a parcel to send them the game back.

Still waiting for mine. At least it's digital all I'll need to do is delete it from my system.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

 

[Zer0wing]

Look, this is what you can play on consoles, so don't tell me CP2077 can't be:

Well it can but CDPR had to go 180 in their 3d art production pipeline (as in, if they have one) and rely on shaders and async compute code magic, essentially alienating Nvidia hardware. RDR2 on PC did that and now has a (bullshit) reputation of rushed unoptimized mess. Still, it'd be cinematic experience somewhere around 24 fps in night city WITH such approach on PS4/XBOX.

Spoiler

Especially when RDR2 is even more linear in almost every single aspect of the game than Cyberpunk

One early quest and options to skip some other quests - does not count. Cyberpunk is the same rollercoaster, albeit more akin to The Outer Worlds in its quest design (which in current year now considered groundbreaking, what the fuck?!).

 

[KVVRR]

Look, this is what you can play on consoles, so don't tell me CP2077 can't be:

Well it can but CDPR had to go 180 in their 3d art production pipeline (as in, if they have one) and rely on shaders and async compute code magic, essentially alienating Nvidia hardware. RDR2 on PC did that and now has a (bullshit) reputation of rushed unoptimized mess. Still, it'd be cinematic experience somewhere around 24 fps in night city WITH such approach on PS4/XBOX.

Spoiler

Especially when RDR2 is even more linear in almost every single aspect of the game than Cyberpunk

One early quest and options to skip some other quests - does not count. Cyberpunk is the same rollercoaster, albeit more akin to The Outer Worlds in its quest design (which in current year now considered groundbreaking, what the fuck?!).

I wasn't implying that Cyberpunk is abundant with c&c but that Red Dead might as well be a movie for how on rails it is, not only with the player choices or whatever but also with the mission desing itself

 

[Paul_cz]

I keep hearing this and it is a sign of denial, reasoning. "B-but maybe if they dropped this version the game would be better".

Look, this is what you can play on consoles, so don't tell me CP2077 can't be:

Completely different games with different design goals. But also, Rockstar had 400 people just in their QA department alone. CD Projekt had 500 in their entire team (and started in 2016 with 240).

Of course, that does not really excuse CDP. They bit off more than they could chew, they should have either made smaller, less ambitious/more sparse game, or make it nextgen and PC only. But everyone's a fucking general after the battle.

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

I've just found out that the reflections, or at least some of them, aren't real.

In the Dewdrop netrunner store, the glass isn't reflecting the poster that's being displayed, it's a different one.

If someone needs proof I have a couple of screens I can up.

.....Just Fuck this game.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

If someone needs proof I have a couple of screens I can up.

Not that I don't believe you, but please post your screenshots anyway. We should endeavor to extract the maximum possible amusement from Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[Zeriel]

I thought it was common knowledge that reflections don't exist. That's why they make you "turn on" the mirrors to show the player. I guess people assumed that only applied to the player? But I certainly wouldn't have bet on that.

 

[KK1001]

The HORRIBLE:
- AI
- Open world reactivity: cops, gangs, wanted
- Bugs
- Difficulty (there is literally none; very hard = normal)
- Itemization
- Driving
- Bosses, encounter design
- Stealth, hacking - both too easy, both break the game wide open

The bad
- Lazy, copy-pasted filler quests
- The skill and perk system
- Reactivity
- Level design, from a mechanical or gameplay perspective
- V being simultaneously edgy hard-ass in over his/her head while also being pulled to be X or Y of player choice. Medium that makes no one happy.

The okay and the good
- The story
- gun animation, shooty feel
- quest breadcrumbs, messages

The great:
- Photo mode and playing dress-up
- muh immersuhn
- city design (sans train obv)
- sound design, character design, music
- art direction and visual design, lighting
- atmosphere, main quest talky shit

You can tell which parts of the game were worked on for 5~ years and which were thrown together in the past 20 months.

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

If someone needs proof I have a couple of screens I can up.

Not that I don't believe you, but please post your screenshots anyway. We should endeavor to extract the maximum possible amusement from Cyberpunk 2077.

As requested....

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

I thought it was common knowledge that reflections don't exist. That's why they make you "turn on" the mirrors to show the player. I guess people assumed that only applied to the player? But I certainly wouldn't have bet on that.

Yes, I did assume it was player character only, maybe because of the clothing or something.

What the fuck is the point of having raytracing if it's not doing the reflections?.. That's virtually the only reason it has to exist.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

If someone needs proof I have a couple of screens I can up.

Not that I don't believe you, but please post your screenshots anyway. We should endeavor to extract the maximum possible amusement from Cyberpunk 2077.

As requested....

most games don't use realtime reflections for things other than the player character, they use precomputed reflection mapping
what most likely happened here was after baking the maps someone changed the texture/objects and forgot to rebake them

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

most games don't use realtime reflections for things other than the player character, they use precomputed reflection mapping
what most likely happened here was after baking the maps someone changed the texture/objects and forgot to rebake them

Oh yeah, I can work out the reasoning, I don't see it as an excuse though, not on top of everything else.

I still remember the kick I got from seeing my character in the mirror in the original Deus Ex... and that long corridor shot with the hand and the globe.

My god, this game sucks balls.

 

[Tyrr]

If someone needs proof I have a couple of screens I can up.

Not that I don't believe you, but please post your screenshots anyway. We should endeavor to extract the maximum possible amusement from Cyberpunk 2077.

As requested....

Is this with or without Ray Tracing reflections?

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

If someone needs proof I have a couple of screens I can up.

Not that I don't believe you, but please post your screenshots anyway. We should endeavor to extract the maximum possible amusement from Cyberpunk 2077.

As requested....

Is this with or without Ray Tracing reflections?

I tried both, there's no difference, but I generally keep it off because for some fucking reason DLSS is greyed out and I can't turn it on to mitigate the RT.

 

[Gargaune]

most games don't use realtime reflections for things other than the player character, they use precomputed reflection mapping
what most likely happened here was after baking the maps someone changed the texture/objects and forgot to rebake them

Dunno what's going on there and whether that's dynamic or prebaked, but if it's the former, it might be ad system screwing up. It's the one system that's constantly bugging out for me, billboard ads get dynamically streamed in and out every time they come into the viewing frustrum and they'll often lag and load low-res LOD variants in my case.

Oh yeah, I can work out the reasoning, I don't see it as an excuse though, not on top of everything else.

I still remember the kick I got from seeing my character in the mirror in the original Deus Ex... and that long corridor shot with the hand and the globe.

My god, this game sucks balls.

You do realise you're whining about a mismatched fucking reflection, right? Cyberpunk needs excuses for plenty of things, but this ain't one of them, bugs like this are a dime a dozen.

I tried both, there's no difference, but I generally keep it off because for some fucking reason DLSS is greyed out and I can't turn it on to mitigate the RT.

What graphics card? Edit - nVidia thread with people saying doing a clean reinstall of the latest drivers unbricked DLSS for them:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...n-cyberpunk-2077-on-rtx-2060-but/?topicPage=1

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

Oh yeah, I can work out the reasoning, I don't see it as an excuse though, not on top of everything else.

I still remember the kick I got from seeing my character in the mirror in the original Deus Ex... and that long corridor shot with the hand and the globe.

My god, this game sucks balls.

You do realise you're whining about a mismatched fucking reflection, right? Cyberpunk needs excuses for plenty of things, but this ain't one of them, bugs like this are a dime a dozen.

It's not a bug though.. yes, not the 'biggest' issue, but at this point it's just more fuel for the fire.

I tried both, there's no difference, but I generally keep it off because for some fucking reason DLSS is greyed out and I can't turn it on to mitigate the RT.

What graphics card? Edit - nVidia thread with people saying doing a clean reinstall of the latest drivers unbricked DLSS for them:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...n-cyberpunk-2077-on-rtx-2060-but/?topicPage=1

2070s. Yeah, tried that, didn't fix anything... I 'think' is because I'm using the Win7 version and I 'think' it's because some their rtx/dlss support comes from the Geforce Experience application (people also report installing this works), and if I'm unwilling to use an OS that spies on me, I'm certainly never going to use a programme that exists only for stream purposes and data collection.

 

[msxyz]

I've just found out that the reflections, or at least some of them, aren't real.

In the Dewdrop netrunner store, the glass isn't reflecting the poster that's being displayed, it's a different one.

If someone needs proof I have a couple of screens I can up.

.....Just Fuck this game.

Most reflections are cubic maps taken during development. (A cubic map it's the planar projection of a 360° fisheye lens, so you just need 6x 'normal' textures). I remember using a lot of them in my days modding UT2003/2004 because just about every shiny object uses them in place of complex shaders (cubic maps are a technique available since DX7). I believe also Half Life 2 and all its Source engine derivatives use prebaked cubic maps for a lot of normal lighting stuff and the editor can generate them automatically. Much less intensive than having to redraw the level from the viewpoint of the reflected surface for each mirror object.

'True' reflections' computed by rendering again the the scene are usually reserved for special surfaces like a large body of water and even then, the in-game settings allow you to specify how much 'complex' these reflections should be. I'm pretty sure all those offices / interior spaces you see from the windows in Cyberpunk 2077 are also just cubic maps. They're very fast to handle as the hardware texture unit only has to retrieve the right texel in 3d space (u,v,w) instead of 2d (u,v) as for a traditional texture.

Ray tracing in hardware is not magic, in fact it's pretty limited compared to what an offline software raytracer can do.

 

[Haplo]

The bad
- Level design, from a mechanical or gameplay perspective

Oh really?

 

[Twiglard]

Just play it for the story. I played DX:IW for the story. And liked it.

 

[AwesomeButton]

OMG reflections aren't real, demos are fake... what's next - bullets don't actually fly from guns?

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

I've just found out that the reflections, or at least some of them, aren't real.

In the Dewdrop netrunner store, the glass isn't reflecting the poster that's being displayed, it's a different one.

If someone needs proof I have a couple of screens I can up.

.....Just Fuck this game.

Most reflections are cubic maps taken during development. (A cubic map it's the planar projection of a 360° fisheye lens, so you just need 6x 'normal' textures). I remember using a lot of them in my days modding UT2003/2004 because just about every shiny object uses them in place of complex shaders (cubic maps are a technique available since DX7). I believe also Half Life 2 and all its Source engine derivatives use prebaked cubic maps for a lot of normal lighting stuff and the editor can generate them automatically. Much less intensive than having to redraw the level from the viewpoint of the reflected surface for each mirror object.

'True' reflections' computed by rendering again the the scene are usually reserved for special surfaces like a large body of water and even then, the in-game settings allow you to specify how much 'complex' these reflections should be. I'm pretty sure all those offices / interior spaces you see from the windows in Cyberpunk 2077 are also just cubic maps. They're very fast to handle as the hardware texture unit only has to retrieve the right texel in 3d space (u,v,w) instead of 2d (u,v) as for a traditional texture.

Ray tracing in hardware is not magic, in fact it's pretty limited compared to what an offline software raytracer can do.

Randy said something similar, and I accept PREVIOUS games did it differently, HOWEVER, we're now talking RTX. This game is pushing RTX/DLSS.. it's not the first game to do this but the FACT of the matter is that EVERY other game that has pushed RTX has been all about the reflection, that's literally been the party line since it was introduced.. "Look 'at dem reflections".. and for this game to also push RTX but not use the one feature it exists to produce is just fucking outrageous .

 

[IThinkTheWorldShouldBurn.]

Just play it for the story. I played DX:IW for the story. And liked it.

Me too *Thumbs up*

The first time (sorry fuzzy memory) I saw that dude merc who had been turned in to one of the robot things with the masks.. freaked me the fuck out. That is a gaming moment that has stayed with me.

I have to admit though... I find the CP 2077 story, writing and characters (I kinda like River and fam but they are the best of a bad lot and it absolutely ruined a good buddy buddy moment by asking me if I wanted to kiss him) ... a big, economy sized bag of shit. I'm literally only playing the game to shoot things in the face for catharsis of my home bound frustration... and it's still boring the shit out of me.