Incline Chris Avellone Appreciation Station

[Lyric Suite]

Also faggot in a bat spandex fighting clowns is stupidest concept,made for kids and retards in their 30ties.

The origin of the Joker was kinda grim though. The design was based on this guy:

And his original concept was pretty dark from the get go, according to wiki:

The Joker initially appeared as a remorseless serial killer, modeled after a joker playing card with a mirthless grin, who killed his victims with "Joker venom": a toxin which left their faces smiling grotesquely

You have to take into account the tropes of the era. Batman is just your typical variation on the Scarlet Pimpernel formula, popular at the time, except with a darker tone. As for the Joker, the popularity of Jack the Ripper, the rise of psychoanalysis, all those things probably contributed to the creation of the character (as well as others like him, Scare Crow, Riddler, Two Face etc), consciously or unconsciously.

 

[RepHope]

Also faggot in a bat spandex fighting clowns is stupidest concept,made for kids and retards in their 30ties.

The origin of the Joker was kinda grim though. The design was based on this guy:

And his original concept was pretty dark from the get go, according to wiki:

The Joker initially appeared as a remorseless serial killer, modeled after a joker playing card with a mirthless grin, who killed his victims with "Joker venom": a toxin which left their faces smiling grotesquely

You have to take into account the tropes of the era. Batman is just your typical variation on the Scarlet Pimpernel formula, popular at the time, except with a darker tone. As for the Joker, the popularity of Jack the Ripper, the rise of psychoanalysis, all those things probably contributed to the creation of the character (as well as others like him, Scare Crow, Riddler, Two Face etc), consciously or unconsciously.

I remember that Bill Finger, I think that was the creator anyway, wanted to kill off the Joker because he knew the Joker would make Batman look incompetent. But the character was too popular, so he was overruled. I always found that amusing, because it shows how far back the complaints about capeshit tropes go.

 

[Neanderthal]

I thought Batman was a re-iteration of the dark stranger thing that goes back donkeys years in fantasy, horror and mythology, while Joker was a variation of the trickster/mischief maker that also is quite dated, maybe more so. Course I ant read any o comics so I don't really know.

 

[vivec]

You guys are getting it the wrong way.

There is a difference between a vigilante wearing a mask to fight crime a la Zorro, and a guy dressing up in a bat suit to do so. The latter is what we call batsuit insane.

 

[Chris Avellone]

Chris Avellone
What do you think about Ken Levine's Narrative Legos concept? Would you prefer game narrative work that way or you like the traditionally built storylines?

Um, if there was a game in production that embraced the Narrative LEGO concept, I’d want to work on it so I could answer that question (the abstract answer differs from the in-the-guts answer, and I usually prefer in-the-guts answers).

“Traditional built storylines” in games is a loaded question, though, as that can mean a few things – if you mean largely linear, or part open-world/part linear, that would affect my answer – when you think of "traditional", what do you mean? It’s fine if you want to cite specific games - that would actually help.

 

[StaticSpine]

Chris Avellone
What do you think about Ken Levine's Narrative Legos concept? Would you prefer game narrative work that way or you like the traditionally built storylines?

Um, if there was a game in production that embraced the Narrative LEGO concept, I’d want to work on it so I could answer that question (the abstract answer differs from the in-the-guts answer, and I usually prefer in-the-guts answers).

“Traditional built storylines” in games is a loaded question, though, as that can mean a few things – if you mean largely linear, or part open-world/part linear, that would affect my answer – when you think of "traditional", what do you mean? It’s fine if you want to cite specific games - that would actually help.

Narrative Legos as I get it represents a game with no storyline determined by the developer - you are thrown into a sandbox with different factions/NPCs/towns etc and your plot is being built from your communication with them. You do not have any predetermined goal.

By traditional I mean largely (or totally) linear. Open-world games still have a particular goal to achieve in the end, though I think Bethesda is searching for that ideal formula to make a neverending sandbox game like in Ken's concept.

 

[vivec]

Narrative Lego sounds like radiant quests if you know what I mean.

 

[J_C]

Also, I discovered several years ago I'm not really "Sicilian" as much as a blend of Hungarian/German/(Scotch-)Irish... with a quarter Sicilian thrown in for good measure. And maybe a lot of Scotch in the Scotch-Irish part.

Whaaaat! Haha, suck it codex, Chris and I share the hungarian blood, no wonder he is so awesome. You've got nothing on me!

 

[Quillon]

Also, I discovered several years ago I'm not really "Sicilian" as much as a blend of Hungarian/German/(Scotch-)Irish... with a quarter Sicilian thrown in for good measure. And maybe a lot of Scotch in the Scotch-Irish part.

Whaaaat! Haha, suck it codex, Chris and I share the hungarian blood, no wonder he is so awesome. You've got nothing on me!

Wasn't Sawyer also German/Hungarian?

 

[conan_edw]

Well I was under the impression that Avellone is working with Levine on this narrative lego thing and I don't believe that I'm wrong

 

[Lyric Suite]

Can we just get a traditional RPG with great writing, story and characters and maybe a combat system that doesn't suck ass?

I would ask why that is such an hard thing to do, but then i remember we live in an age where developers can't even do a simple Doom clone right.

 

[Quillon]

Just watched Ken Levine's GDC talk on the lego. He basically described some RPG systems(most of which New Vegas contained) except the last 2 mins of his talk where he said they'd be creating 10 different passions for any character's personality in the game which they'd randomly get 3 of when you roll a new game and write/record/make content/make content for conflicting passions etc. for each passion. Yeah good luck with that. At best it would be a game with very few characters with a lot of radiant quests.

And I thought he had a genius idea when I read "Narrative Lego" above. Like Boyarsky said; until the AI can start to write/create stories etc off of procedural stuff, human writers gonna write. And they can only make so much reactivity with the time/budget/talent etc they have.

Actually it sounded more like Deadfire's relationship system. Which has set number of companions(7) with set personalities and supposed to have limited number of conflicts that can trigger of off player's decisions throughout the game. And Ken wants to make every character in his game like that with variable personalities(tho prolly less complex) for each character that can conflict with each other any time, plus factions and world impacting events. Yeah good luck with that x 2.

 

[Infinitron]

Um, if there was a game in production that embraced the Narrative LEGO concept, I’d want to work on it

Hmmm. You might be trying to tell us you're working on that game...or that the Narrative LEGO concept isn't being implemented despite the fact that Ken Levine's team is working on something.

 

[CptMace]

I expect Ken Levine to get back on earth at some point like with bioshock infinite.
Now if he keeps making over-the-top pitches and scaling everything down afterwards, he's gonna lose the rest of his credibility rather quickly, so let's hope he succeeds in this little venture.

 

[Neanderthal]

Never mind all that shit, make Freedom Force 3 Levine!

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Even more important Chris Avellone : what do you think of barbarians and why aren't there more of them in your games.

Chris Avellone please respond.

 

[Alienman]

Chris Avellone
What do you think about Ken Levine's Narrative Legos concept? Would you prefer game narrative work that way or you like the traditionally built storylines?

Um, if there was a game in production that embraced the Narrative LEGO concept, I’d want to work on it so I could answer that question (the abstract answer differs from the in-the-guts answer, and I usually prefer in-the-guts answers).

“Traditional built storylines” in games is a loaded question, though, as that can mean a few things – if you mean largely linear, or part open-world/part linear, that would affect my answer – when you think of "traditional", what do you mean? It’s fine if you want to cite specific games - that would actually help.

Narrative Legos as I get it represents a game with no storyline determined by the developer - you are thrown into a sandbox with different factions/NPCs/towns etc and your plot is being built from your communication with them. You do not have any predetermined goal.

By traditional I mean largely (or totally) linear. Open-world games still have a particular goal to achieve in the end, though I think Bethesda is searching for that ideal formula to make a neverending sandbox game like in Ken's concept.

Sounds like Dwarf Fortress adventure mode.

 

[Ninjerk]

Even more important Chris Avellone : what do you think of barbarians and why aren't there more of them in your games.

Chris Avellone please respond.

Looks like he's not going to answer you until you see him driven before you.

 

[Grotesque]

Chris Avellone

So when will you keep your word and make an Arcanum playthrough?
This is getting ridiculous by now because of the many times you postponed it just to make other promises instead?
How much do you value your own given word?

 

[Roguey]

In a few months we'll hit the five year anniversary of the last update.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

wolves miss you, MCA!

 

[Chris Avellone]

Chris Avellone please respond.

My apologies - I don’t often have time to respond to this thread (although I do check it, since it seems the Codex knows more about my life than I do).

If I don’t get to your question, it’s not personal – I just don’t have the time to answer everything. I’ll do my best, though.

I don’t have an opinion on barbarians beyond (1) I liked reading Howard’s Conan growing up (I thought it was cool supernatural dark fantasy, and the sorcery in those books felt like sorcery – mystical – and it made the more modern fantasy novels I was reading feel anemic in comparison) (2) Amiri is in the Pathfinder: Kingmaker CRPG and I like her. I’m not writing her or designing her quest line, though (she’s not my companion), and (3) Robert Purchese (Eurogamer) and I once had a conversation about barbarians in fantasy RPGs, and some of the topics from that (his research on berserker culture, and the fugue states they could enter) are still sitting in the noggin. If I ever do anything with it, I’ll be sure to give Bertie credit – although “Hellblade” may have given a better depiction than I could (I haven’t played it, only heard about it, even if some of the reviews spoiled the mechanics for me).

 

[Nutria]

the Codex knows more about my life than I do

You know that nondescript van that's been parked across the street from your home? We've got our eyes on you.

 

[Chris Avellone]

Narrative Legos as I get it represents a game with no storyline determined by the developer - you are thrown into a sandbox with different factions/NPCs/towns etc and your plot is being built from your communication with them. You do not have any predetermined goal.

By traditional I mean largely (or totally) linear. Open-world games still have a particular goal to achieve in the end, though I think Bethesda is searching for that ideal formula to make a neverending sandbox game like in Ken's concept.

Even though I'm not a fan, I do think linear games can tell a good story (and they do have advantages in being linear - a number of JRPGs have proved it), but I have noticed that people don't share those stories nearly as much as they'd share, say, what they did in an open-world game where they can push-pull the narrative systems more. I do prefer the sandbox approach, though, but it can be tough to get right (as cited by the Radiant AI comment - agreed, it's tough b/c so much can go wrong).

I do agree Bethesda is struggling with the open world vs. single-player narrative, and the single-player narrative often feels in conflict with the nature of the open-world mechanics. I proposed a solution for that in Tyranny (in the original pitch), where any action you do makes the story come to you in various forms - so anything you do in the world could attract attention and draw people's notice. I also (briefly) proposed the idea of bosses, antagonists, rivals, and companions as "system boxes" that would behave in certain ways based on your actions in the environment, so rather than scripted sequences, you'd be playing a more systemic gain with their scripting behavior to beat them (or change them, or recruit them, or...). I agree it's a lot of work, and there's a lot that can go wrong, but at the end of the day, I think people are more likely to share and talk about those stories (since they were involved in them) vs. a linear storyline.

Also, I'm not saying I love sandbox more than any other story-type presentation, I think each category has its strengths.

Microsoft also did an interesting study where they found that players tended to remember NPCs in a game vs. the story itself, which was an interesting observation that I can't disagree with.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I'm Avellone Chris
My writing bring incline
The only thing I miss
Is my old hairline.