Incline Chris Avellone Appreciation Station

[Bohrain]

Chris Avellone why writers have stopped coming up with original,unique and insane settings like Morrowind or Torment? Is there no imagination left in the industry? And do you still daydream about alien new worlds filled with adventures and exotic encounters?

I think writers have, but maybe not as much in the RPG arena. Definitely in the indie space and the <10 million budget games (and I don't think PoE intended to be as "Baldur's Gate-y" at the outset, it just became that way).

It's worth noting that Planescape wasn't a Black Isle creation, it was a TSR/Wizards of the Coast creation (and they did stop doing content for it). While Torment eventually made a profit, it certainly wasn't at the same level as other titles in the RPG space, including ones already being worked on in Black Isle (Baldur's Gate).

Also, another thing to keep in mind is how quickly games return on their investment - just turning a profit doesn't equate to a success. I don't have the exact sales figures for Torment, but if a game recovers its operating cost in three months vs. three years, the former is obviously a bigger plus for the company when considering future installments or deciding whether or not to work in certain genres again. Ideally, you don't want a game to ever just make a profit, ideally you want that profit to be able to cover at least one more game without stress, improve the studio (hey, we can afford our own QA now, or hey, now we can have our own audio dept), cover employee raises and bonuses for hard work, and also be enjoyed by players and reviewed well, too, among other aspects. (A game can make a profit but tank critically, for example, which can perpetually damage a franchise and a studio.)

Would you attribute creative bankruptcy at any extend to 90's tech bubble making it possible to fund more avant garde projects and/or game development gradually becoming less of a scene and more of an industry?

 

[fantadomat]

Bohrain market over saturation mate,too much of the same games and to many companies,not enough people to buy it. The same shit is happening now,most of the AAA games last two years flopped in a way. Also the creative bankruptcy part is because it became an industry.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Chris Avellone why writers have stopped coming up with original,unique and insane settings like Morrowind or Torment? Is there no imagination left in the industry? And do you still daydream about alien new worlds filled with adventures and exotic encounters?

I think writers have, but maybe not as much in the RPG arena. Definitely in the indie space and the <10 million budget games (and I don't think PoE intended to be as "Baldur's Gate-y" at the outset, it just became that way).

It's worth noting that Planescape wasn't a Black Isle creation, it was a TSR/Wizards of the Coast creation (and they did stop doing content for it). While Torment eventually made a profit, it certainly wasn't at the same level as other titles in the RPG space, including ones already being worked on in Black Isle (Baldur's Gate).

Also, another thing to keep in mind is how quickly games return on their investment - just turning a profit doesn't equate to a success. I don't have the exact sales figures for Torment, but if a game recovers its operating cost in three months vs. three years, the former is obviously a bigger plus for the company when considering future installments or deciding whether or not to work in certain genres again. Ideally, you don't want a game to ever just make a profit, ideally you want that profit to be able to cover at least one more game without stress, improve the studio (hey, we can afford our own QA now, or hey, now we can have our own audio dept), cover employee raises and bonuses for hard work, and also be enjoyed by players and reviewed well, too, among other aspects. (A game can make a profit but tank critically, for example, which can perpetually damage a franchise and a studio.)

Would you attribute creative bankruptcy at any extend to 90's tech bubble making it possible to fund more avant garde projects and/or game development gradually becoming less of a scene and more of an industry?

You guys and your obsession with tech.

It's obviously a mixture between a particular mindset that is now lost on the part of the developers themselves and those guys telling the money people what type of games to make:

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Sorry for redundant questions, but... I want to play all FNV DLCs that Chris wrote exclusively or almost exclusively. I hate FNV, but am curious to see how the game would've looked if he had wrote it.

1) Which are such DLCs? I understand Dead Money is one. But he's also mentioned in OWB and Lonesome Road. How big of an involvement did he have in those?
2) Are the DLCs happening in their own areas or am I going to be dragged through FNV vanilla areas which repulse me?

 

[Infinitron]

Sorry for redundant questions, but... I want to play all FNV DLCs that Chris wrote exclusively or almost exclusively. I hate FNV, but am curious to see how the game would've looked if he had wrote it.

1) Which are such DLCs? I understand Dead Money is one. But he's also mentioned in OWB and Lonesome Road. How big of an involvement did he have in those?
2) Are the DLCs happening in their own areas or am I going to be dragged through FNV vanilla areas which repulse me?

1) He directed all three of those DLCs. I'd say they're all equally recognizably "Avellonian" in terms of their writing, although they're quite different from each other otherwise so that doesn't mean you'd enjoy them all equally.

2) All in their own areas. Not sure if you'd find them much better than main FO:NV though, depending on what you didn't like about it.

You can't play the DLCs without playing a lot of FO:NV though. They're accessed from within the main FO:NV world and they're high level content.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

You can't play the DLCs without playing a lot of FO:NV though. They're accessed from within the main FO:NV world and they're high level content.

I know, but I figured I'd give myself 25 levels (it says 25 is the recommended number) and some stuff through console and then I'll just head straight to those areas. It'll work, right?

 

[AwesomeButton]

Although I've watched this video before, the description fits pretty well the current wave of "reinventing" and "spiritually succeeding" in games.

 

[Bohrain]

You guys and your obsession with tech.

It's more about economics than tech. If people with certain kind of taste have money and are willing to spend it, or are able to coerce institutions with money to subsidize their taste it has a very tangible effects of what is produced.

 

[Roguey]

I know, but I figured I'd give myself 25 levels (it says 25 is the recommended number) and some stuff through console and then I'll just head straight to those areas. It'll work, right?

Start at level 15 and do it in Chris's recommended order (OWB, DM, LR). OWB has a problem with health bloat so it's best to do it as early as possible.

 

[Trashos]

You can't play the DLCs without playing a lot of FO:NV though. They're accessed from within the main FO:NV world and they're high level content.

I know, but I figured I'd give myself 25 levels (it says 25 is the recommended number) and some stuff through console and then I'll just head straight to those areas. It'll work, right?

I more or less agree with Infinitron's answer above. I found Dead Money to be the most "avellonian" of all, but I love both DM and OWB.

Keep in mind that these 3 dlc are the most challenging locations of the whole game, so be realistic with your difficulty settings. DM can be tough no matter the difficulty setting, so good luck (it is worth it, though).

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

I can’t argue with feelings or perception, but if you didn’t think my work was any good or didn’t stand out, I agree, and even though I worked hard on those projects, I do feel I need to improve.

Yeah, that is the point I am trying to make. All your recent work feels meh, maybe or; outright phoned it in specifically in the case of Wasteland 2. None of the PST level stuff can be expected from you anytime soon unless you recharge your creative batteries or something.

As of now, you are similar to Richard Garriott or Peter Molyneux. They had their glory days; but don't have anything to show in their recent works.

While your FNV DLC might have been decent, the Bethesda prosperous engine kills it for me. Also the 30 minute single conversation lore dump at the beginning of OBW is tiring.

I hope you recover to your prime soon. Although I am not holding my breath.

 

[Egosphere]

As of now, you are similar to Richard Garriott or Peter Molyneux.

When was the last time either of those were involved in development of something semi-decent? 2004?
You can bend the facts any way you want, but you'll still have a hard time convincing anyone that working on New Vegas, PoE, Prey etc. is somehow similar to working on Godus

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

As of now, you are similar to Richard Garriott or Peter Molyneux.

When was the last time either of those were involved in development of something semi-decent? 2004?
You can bend the facts any way you want, but you'll still have a hard time convincing anyone that working on New Vegas, PoE, Prey etc. is somehow similar to working on Godus

Hence similar. Not same.
And PoE is a massive dissapointment. Granted Durance is interesting (and it was Chris's contribution) but PoE overall? Meh.

 

[agentorange]

As of now, you are similar to Richard Garriott or Peter Molyneux.

When was the last time either of those were involved in development of something semi-decent? 2004?
You can bend the facts any way you want, but you'll still have a hard time convincing anyone that working on New Vegas, PoE, Prey etc. is somehow similar to working on Godus

Hence similar. Not same.
And PoE is a massive dissapointment. Granted Durance is interesting (and it was Chris's contribution) but PoE overall? Meh.

They're not really similar. Garriott and Molyneux became famous for their personality. They were the face that people attributed to games like Ultima or Dungeon Keeper, and both of them enjoyed being in the spotlight. When they were detached from the projects that made them famous but still tried to remain in the spotlight, it became apparent that they were not the ones solely responsible for the quality of the games they directed. But Molyneux in particular still seems to think that his ideas were the sole reason for those games being what they were, and you end up with something like Godus where the high concept idea isn't backed up by a team like Bullfrog that can make a basically functioning game out of it. Avellone on the other hand doesn't to seem to have near as big of an ego and is happy to contribute writing to games in a smaller role, I don't see him trying to take credit for being the brains behind PoE, or even the classic projects that he wrote and designed for, nor is he going around claiming that he design a revolutionary new game that will change the way we think about the medium. Hardly a Hideo Kojima or David Cage style game writer. I'm not even a big fan of all of Avellone's work (I hate New Reno) but he is hardly in the same category as Molyneux.

 

[Fowyr]

Hence similar. Not same.
And PoE is a massive dissapointment. Granted Durance is interesting (and it was Chris's contribution) but PoE overall? Meh.

Then stop bullying him for things that were not his fault. It was a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth, dear faggot. Designated shitting street is that way.
BTW, Chris, I never had a chance to express gratitude for PST, so thank you from the bottom of my heart. It was a great game.

 

[ga♥]

Should we really be grateful? It set the bar so high that my expectations are regularly frustrated

And don't know, maybe after nearly 20 years, Chris is getting frustrated as well to have his work compared to PST.

 

[Viata]

Well, it's kinda funny that Chris's best work is a JRPG, though.

 

[Fairfax]

Original and imaginative doesn't necessary mean costly.

As far as settings go, it's definitely costly. PS:T had 30+ Planescape products (plus everything that comes with D&D) to build upon. That takes a lot of time and effort, and it also requires the right talent, which not even money can guarantee. Planescape had Zeb Cook, Tony DiTerlizzi, Robh Ruppel, Wolfang Baur, Dana Knutson and others to give it life. "Original, unique and insane" without the same effort and talent turns into Numenera or Eberron.

 

[Neanderthal]

All your recent work feels meh, maybe or; outright phoned it in specifically in the case of Wasteland 2. None of the PST level stuff can be expected from you anytime soon unless you recharge your creative batteries or something.

Isn't that exactly what he's doing at the moment?

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Also the 30 minute single conversation lore dump at the beginning of OBW is tiring.

Speak for yourself.

 

[fantadomat]

Original and imaginative doesn't necessary mean costly.

As far as settings go, it's definitely costly. PS:T had 30+ Planescape products (plus everything that comes with D&D) to build upon. That takes a lot of time and effort, and it also requires the right talent, which not even money can guarantee. Planescape had Zeb Cook, Tony DiTerlizzi, Robh Ruppel, Wolfang Baur, Dana Knutson and others to give it life. "Original, unique and insane" without the same effort and talent turns into Numenera or Eberron.

You are talking about game from very different market and industry environment,and from what i gathered the game didn't have that a high budget. Also talent doesn't equal high pay,famous names do equal money. There is decent number of very original indies out there that are made from time to time and have pretty negligible budget. Also Avellone pointed out this as he was responding to me earlier(more or less).

I really feel bad for giving Torment as example,now people are just talking about the game and how it is made,while ignoring my point of lacking imagination in modern games.

 

[Don Peste]

Old but interesting read (or re-read). I don't remember seeing it here:
Planescape: Torment Official Strategies & Secrets (Sybex)

Spoiler

 

[Mikeal]

Chris what were you doing on "Die by the Sword"?

 

[ga♥]

Fun game. Die by the the sword; didn't know Chris was on it.

Anyway I am afraid he stopped replying already.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Chris Avellone , you have said numerous times that you work on Durance consisted of building the character concept, with the actual dialogues writing seen in the game being done by other people. Correct me if this was not accurate.

My question is, what does a character concept look like? I assume it's a document, but what information about the character does it contain, what's the table of contents of such a document?