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Incline Colony Ship RELEASE THREAD

Alpharius

Scholar
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
597
Out of curiosity- how hard is that one fight against the monks if you decide to turn the ship around?
My party was wiped out in 1 turn, so beating their asses is definitely on my to-do list next playthrough.
Someone suggested starting with cloaking devices on everyone to get the first turn and then spamming them with stasis grenades. Should be doable then if you always fight 4 vs 1 and the rest are in stasis.

I only played solo after the first playthrough so didn't manage it.
 

MrBuzzKill

Arcane
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
694
I like how polished the game is, looks incredibly good compared to the predecessors, but the (lack of) dialogue options is a bit underwhelming. For a CRPG they are quite a bit fewer than I came to expect, honestly.
 

jackofshadows

Arcane
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
5,074
https://steamcommunity.com/games/648410/announcements/detail/6659209897473844171
General Improvements

It’s been six months since Colony Ship was released and three years since we launched on Early Access. It wasn’t an easy journey and we’re grateful for the overwhelming support and encouragement we’ve received at every step of the way.

We’ll continue improving the game throughout 2024 and making your experience aboard Starfarer more enjoyable and memorable. This update (the seventh since release) adds:

  • Improved Heart location (new quests and events)
  • Improved ‘rooftop’ and ‘train station’ levels
  • New and expanded dialogues
  • New weapons and portraits
  • More interactive events
  • New world map
  • Minor fixes and improvements


6e763dfaf807b62246ed4ba6d89cc4607b217576.png
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,044
Any project would be a large project at this point. Either we do a sequel in 5 years or a brand new game in 6-7.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,797
I'm currently testing if the market is receptive to 10-hr long episodic RPGs with save file transfers (you copy a save file and dump it in a folder or something equally similar) to the sequel.

That being said my games have a... slightly different audience, so I'm not sure if my results would be broadly applicable. Has anyone done this in RPGs recently? All I can think of are CYOAs and older games.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,419
That being said my games have a... slightly different audience, so I'm not sure if my results would be broadly applicable. Has anyone done this in RPGs recently? All I can think of are CYOAs and older games.
The games I can think of are The Walking Dead, The Wolf Among Us, Mass Effect series, The Witcher series and Dragon Age: Inquisition.

If you want for your save transfer to shine as a feature, you'd have to really turn it into something that makes a difference. Transfer from Mass Effect 1 into 2 was really a nice touch (nothing major, it was impactful enough make you feel connected), but I heard transfer from Mass Effect 2 into 3 was a huge disappointment for people who really worked to have perfect save files, because it didn't amount to anything meaningful in the end. This holds more or less true for The Witcher and Dragon Age: Inquisition, by the way.
 
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Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,797
That being said my games have a... slightly different audience, so I'm not sure if my results would be broadly applicable. Has anyone done this in RPGs recently? All I can think of are CYOAs and older games.
The ogames I can think of are The Walking Dead, The Wolf Among Us, Mass Effect series, The Witcher series and Dragon Age: Inquisition.

If you want for your save transfer to shine as a feature, you'd have to really turn it into something that makes a difference. Transfer from Mass Effect 1 into 2 was really a nice touch (nothing major, it was impactful enough make you feel connected), but I heard transfer from Mass Effect 2 into 3 was a huge disappointment for people who really worked to have perfect save files, because it didn't amount to anything meaningful in the end. This holds more or less true for The Witcher and Dragon Age: Inquisition, by the way.

I remember Mass Effect, it was really lackluster (save the bug queen, 30 extra war points and some extra text! etc).

I'm thinking basically of basically the old school transfer your party over into this game. This includes all stats and progression sticks, as well as inventory, triggers, character relationships, etc.

Each game will be interlinked so the end result will be a massive, relatively seamless RPG.

The whole point of this is of course to allow devs to work on large projects incrementally rather than all at once.
 

v1c70r14

Educated
Joined
Feb 8, 2023
Messages
259
Location
World of Goo
So, Vault Dweller can you comment on the game's commercial results yet?
Same as before. The game is selling better than AoD, but not enough to pay for the sequel.
With the model not paying off and sending you to the big leagues, are you still the same C&C hardliner you were when you started out making AoD, and do you still think that small scale indie development of RPGs is feasible and sensible? Prelude to Darkness, the game that inspired you into making your own C&C filled spiritual successors to Fallout, never got its planned expansions or sequel, and its developer only lasted for that one game. The genre is littered with abandoned and commercially failed passion projects to a larger ratio than most others.

This is just my own view, but indie success is so rare in RPGs that I can count them on one hand. Cleve took several decades to deliver the final form of the Wizardry lineage, a Serb made a spiritual successor to Fallout with Underrail, Jeff Vogel is remastering his own games, currently doing over the series he began in 2001, and Pierre Begue has only recently toned down his libertarian extremism and began using Steam to sell his games. And then there's ITS.

There have been hobbyist RPGs that were smaller scale, and didn't get as much attention, like Das Geisterschiff or Swords and Sorcery: Underworld, and a couple of others, but you barely see users talking about them.

Anyway, I was wondering if your perspective on how worthwhile it is to emphasize C&C, when it takes so much time and effort for comparably small returns, has changed. You've been at it for so long that one of the big flagship releases and critic darling of the last year, Baldur's Gate 3, gave us a return to some design elements that we lost after Interplay, Black Isle along with it, and then later Troika went under. What do you give as advice to someone like for example shihonage that is planning to quit his job to work on his own spiritual successor to Fallout as an indie dev?

The way I see it, the RPG genre is the one with the poorest cost-to-profit potentials, the audience being comparably small and the workload even without a focus on C&C being one of the highest in video games, add easily skipped content as an indie and it seems that the final calculation almost never works out in the favor of the developer. Do you disagree with this view?

Sorry for waffling on, if I had more time to spare I'd write a shorter post, but I want to hear your thoughts since you're one of few people that bootstrapped your way into making the same kinds of games that were only made back in the day with the backing of one of the big publishers. We tend to forget it now in retrospect, but Bioware, Black Isle, and Interplay, under the same umbrella, revitalized the RPG genre with an AAA budget, and not just one of ad campaigns. Supposedly bringing about an renaissance to games that by that point had started to die off. Jeff Vogel made the cut down budget version of the Bioware part of that work from his bedroom office in the 90's to the 00's, but you and your team were always more ambitious than that, with the consequence of making far fewer games and to what I presume must be to a much higher cost.

So having been there and back again, what does old Vince now know that younger Vince didn't?
 

cvv

Arcane
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Messages
18,958
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Kingdom of Bohemia
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.

So having been there and back again, what does old Vince now know that younger Vince didn't?
As an indie studio you have the best shot at success either with:

- something unique/never-seen-before, either gameplay-wise, setting-wise or art-wise (or combinations of those) - FTL, Minecraft, Demon's Souls, Witcher 1, Hollow Knight, Subnautica, Kingdom Come, Hades, DayZ, Factorio, Euro Truck

- or something traditional and seen many times before, but wrapped in eye-candy production values - D:OS 1/2, BG3

- or p. much anything with co-op, doesn't matter what, people will gobble up literal diarrhea if it's co-op based - Palworld, Valheim (a good game, but it would never been anywhere as successful without co-op), Lethal Company, V Rising, Deep Rock, and plethora of other shit that always take over streaming for a few days until overshadowed by something else.

Unfortunately Colony Ship, while a very solid, honest effort, very enjoyable for the target niche, is neither unique in any way, shape or form nor particularly exciting and eye-catching art-wise.

It's very difficult to come-up with something truly unique and it's almost impossible to hustle up enough money to pump those shiny produkshun valews, especially nowadays. So VD's best bet is to make something marginally competent and then graft co-op onto it. Success is almost guaranteed, at least the short-term variety.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,044
With the model not paying off...
It's paying off, it's just not generating enough to pay for a full-scale project. Two very different things. I used this example before: Legend of Grimrock 2: 2,600 reviews, 91% reviews, yet not enough to pay for LoG3. Back then, I wondered why. Now I get it.

... are you still the same C&C hardliner you were when you started out making AoD
If we stay in business, we'll certainly continue exploring this direction.

...and do you still think that small scale indie development of RPGs is feasible and sensible?
Yes.

Anyway, I was wondering if your perspective on how worthwhile it is to emphasize C&C, when it takes so much time and effort for comparably small returns, has changed.
No. As stated earlier, Colony Ship *is* selling better than AoD. Stronger sales in EA, stronger launch, stronger first 3 months, stronger first 6 months.

You've been at it for so long that one of the big flagship releases and critic darling of the last year, Baldur's Gate 3, gave us a return to some design elements that we lost after Interplay...
Excellent!

What do you give as advice to someone like for example shihonage that is planning to quit his job to work on his own spiritual successor to Fallout as an indie dev?
Godspeed?
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
My feeling was that AoD was a better-managed project than Colony Ship, with respect to the more obvious cuts you made in CS. Is that correct, and if yes, what do you think caused it?
 

v1c70r14

Educated
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Messages
259
Location
World of Goo
- or something traditional and seen many times before, but wrapped in eye-candy production values - D:OS 1/2, BG3
It's worth noting that even as Larian ramped up their production values over time to reach a bigger and bigger audience they kept co-op as a big selling point since their Original Sin series began, and this contributed heavily towards their sales. Perhaps a better example of eye-candy coating making a game popular might be Vávra's Kingdom Come?
It's paying off, it's just not generating enough to pay for a full-scale project. Two very different things. I used this example before: Legend of Grimrock 2: 2,600 reviews, 91% reviews, yet not enough to pay for LoG3. Back then, I wondered why. Now I get it.
I'm not saying your game was a commercial failure or a flop, I am asking if the business model makes any sense when a game like Grimrock 2 can sell well and still not warrant a sequel. It makes me think that there was never any long-term hope for the genre and that both Troika and Interplay was doomed to fail from the onset, because despite making games that consistently rank in the top ten section of people's favorite RPG or even video game lists, the cost was immense and would have kept going up as production values and player expectations went up. Troika made three of the best RPGs of all time and folded, even if there's a poetic rhyme to it with their company name, I don't think that was their intention starting it up. Later on your answers seem to indicate that you don't think it's an issue, but here you seem aware of it and that you have gained some understanding of it.
Honestly, enough with these verbose wall-o-texts VD, seriously.
Vince was always like that. Consistency is probably something you need if you're going to be an indie game developer working across the decades on the type of game that large studios had issues putting together even in their prime. Here he is responding to Roqua in 2006 for example.

How did you find team members?
Teh intarnet.

How easy is it to use?
Not as good as we had hoped, but manageable.

What has the money been used for besides buying the engine?
Different things.

So I can't say I'm surprised, I did hope for for something more elaborate though. I was looking into old ITS history and came across a round-table with several big RPG developers on their forums, enjoyed reading Avellone's responses in particular since he has so much to say about his craft.

Q: Setting is an important RPG element. It's a foundation of a game and sometimes even a pretty good reason to play one. So, how do you create and breath life into new worlds? What's your process, what are the steps? What are the most important setting elements, what must be done right?

Avellone: This is going to be a little bit of rambling seeded with examples, but bear with me.

When approaching world design (and with more recent IPs I’ve been working on at Obsidian), I usually begin with “what do I want the player to do that’s the coolest thing ever?” Whether that’s allowing the player to convince a mutated dominant lifeform out to enslave the future that his master plan is wrong and talk him into committing suicide, great. If that’s allowing the player to stand in a fortress built out of a thousand lifetimes of regrets on a plane of negative energy and argue with the possibilities my life about why it’s important I be allowed to die, great. If I want to stand in an ancient elven citadel shattered by magics and provoke two half-demons and their army into battle to prevent the destruction of the Ten Towns, so be it.

Asking “what would be cool to do as a player” is then followed by, “okay, what sort of framework could I build around the world to build up to that cool moment(s)?” World building is similar to story building in some respects… if I want to make a game where I can voyage inside an android’s brain, help a pregnant alley give birth, or a world where I can weave death sounds of the beasts I kill into audio-inspired spellcraft, that cool sample moment of player experience is the starting point, and I start constructing a framework around the world to support and give more power to those moments.

For raw material, I take a lot of notes from books, games, and movies, good and bad, and use those as tiny mementos for things I’d like to seed a world with. It can be anything from a profession name (“anathemathician” – which almost became the profession of a character in Planescape who could use chaos math to alter reality like spells), or the idea of an effect in the world called “consensus” (where if enough people within a certain radius believe in a course of action, all actions taken along those lines - defending, attacking, even menial labor - gain a pseudo hive-mind bonus), or even watching the movie Unknown and seeing the game puzzle possibilities in a character armed with an electronic car key trying to find the right place to stand in a sealed-off warehouse to trigger the car alarm outside as an SOS signal. All these mementos add up to flesh out a world unconsciously.

But practically speaking... if you’re starting with your own original IP, you want the setting and the world to complement your theme and your game mechanics. That may sound like a simplistic answer, but you want the world itself to be intertwined with the game system – one of the best examples of this is the Warhammer universe, which makes no pretensions what’s it’s there to do – it’s a world that leaks conflict, chaos, and everything about it complements the fantasy tabletop battle aspect. The world allows you a multitude of factions, a diversity of units, and a spell system that is focused mostly for large-scale conflicts (if you’ve ever played Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play, some of those 4th level spells could wipe a continent clean of life)… and the world even allows you to mutate new units if you want. Also, the theme of the world makes it clear that it’s always one step away from destruction unless you take violent steps to prevent Chaos from taking hold.

At Obsidian, we approached Alpha Protocol in the same way – we started with, "we want to make a cool espionage RPG,” then started dissected the genre into game mechanics that would help the player feel like they were part of an espionage drama. We’re pretty happy with how they’re turning out (details to come soon, I hope).

Next in world building, is another “practical” parameter – the scope of the game. System Shock 2 and Bioshock, for example, started with a good sense of how many levels and how much free-roaming the player was going to be allowed – and furthermore, how many actual conversations they were going to let the player have, so this factored into the design of their world. Bioshock’s Rapture and System Shock 2’s Von Braun are two isolated environments (in all dimensions), and it’s easy for the player to understand why these environments are isolated and why the player’s movements are naturally restricted. Next, both have suffered catastrophic disasters that have wiped out many of who would be considered “friendly conversationlists” in both environments, and in making these two choices in tandem with the scope of the game, the world has come to complement the design.

Also in world design, there’s the matter of accessibility. At some point, as irritating as it may seem, you need to decide how accessible this world is to the public. Do you want to shake them up a little? Do you want to present traditional fantasy escapism? Do you want to present a cliché world, then give it a twist one hour into it? Fallout and Planescape, for example, were arguably never as accessible in their presentation as the Forgotten Realms games, nor World of Warcraft, for example, both of which built on more mainstream fantasy and Tolkein-esque settings that players were more comfortable with.


Q: Personally I'm very curious about how you developed an RPG setting for Aliens, so if you can actually discuss it, maybe without being specific, that would be appreciated by all. You've mentioned that you watched the movies before you started. What did you learn and notice? What notes did you take? What were you first steps; what did you start from? - Vince


Avellone: With regards to Aliens, I was the Creative Lead on Aliens only during a chunk of pre-production, and then I transferred over to a Lead Designer position on Alpha Protocol. Josh ran with the storyline and world creation for Aliens after that – the characters developed for Aliens are all his, for example, and they're pretty awesome.

As an example of how to approach the setting, though, it's a good one, so I don't imagine speaking about the approach to it is really a huge breach of etiquette, and it's pretty similar to how we approach doing settings in other franchises.

Before beginning, we usually have a sense of what the engine will be for the game and what "type" of RPG we're creating (action, turn-based, 3rd person party, etc.). Following that, I try to absorb as much about the genre as possible, including any tangential or off-the-beaten path explorations of that genre (for example, I studied the Expanded Universe in Star Wars extensively, and for the Aliens genre, I also made sure to cover all the Predator vs. Aliens material as well as all the Dark Horse books and novels). The reason for this is pretty simple – one, you don't want to do a story or character someone else has already done in the field. Second of all, it lets you start listing all the hallmarks of the genre and what the core appeal is.

So, let's take Aliens as an example. What's cool about Aliens?

Well, it's scary. But why?

The Aliens typically attack people in situations where there's little or nowhere to run, and there's no way to get help quickly. Isolation to spur terror is a big part of the genre… no one is coming to save you.

The Aliens are a primal, predatory force. The more you know about them, the less scary they are (knowledge and details about your opponents makes them less threatening in general), so when introducing them, it's best to keep them as a nebulous, predatory force that serves as an adversary to the player.

Next, the threats in Aliens are actually two-fold. One is the aliens themselves, which are shadowy, nebulous threats lurking in the dark. The other threat is the human factor – routinely in the movies, it's the human psychological element that causes the secondary, and usually greater, threat. One could argue "the company" is basically another, equal shadowy nebulous predatory representation of the aliens. As an example, Burke's greed in Aliens is a huge threat. Hudson's panic is another. Gorman's arrogant by-the-book incompetence is another, his unwillingness to admit he's in over his head nor that he is unfit to command. Apone follows stupid orders. Vasquez is recklessly berserk, and her keeping her storm gun in Aliens and opening fire during the first encounter in the Hadley's Hope nest actually sets the timer limit on the detonation in the colony. Dallas in Alien is clearly apathetic about following the company's directives, and his apathy puts the crew in danger. Parker in Alien wants his share, etc, etc. All of these human elements serve to create equal, if not more, significant problems for the player. So having the human factor as a gameplay elements is equally important, and it should be tied into NPC and PC psychology.
Now, let's take Ripley. Ripley is the hero, and her strength is her perspective on the situation (usually the smartest perspective – "nuke them from orbit"), and her ability to take the psychological handicaps of her crew and immediate party members and either course-correct or overcome them (Hudson's fear, Newt's catatonia, Hick's unwillingness to step up and take command, Burke's sliminess, Ash's company loyalty, etc.). So this also seems to be an important part of the franchise.

So basically, you research, you immerse, you absorb, then you start distilling the keypoints of what makes the genre what it is and look for ways to make it part of the world you’re creating, and more importantly, part of the game mechanics.

Usually, after this point, I have a lot of notes, and I also start branching out into related movies that feature claustrophobic horror, or waves of enemy aliens, or more modern-day approaches to the sci-fi genre, and see if there's elements or key mechanics there that work that could also benefit an Aliens RPG.

Q: What are your preferences and thoughts in regard to storylines? Linear or non-linear? Epic or low-key? Formulaic or "chaotic"? Taking control from the player for extra drama (i.e. you fell asleep, was captured, and thrown in jail. Surprise!) or leaving the player completely in charge? What are your storytelling trademarks (or what storytelling aspects would you like to develop into your own trademarks)?

Avellone: I believe in non-linear “stories,” but I’d much rather have a game world filled with game mechanics and game systems that allow the player to make their stories without the drama being imposed on them. I think that gives more credit and fun to the player without dictating the experience to them – which to some story writers may seem to create a stronger experience, but I don’t agree, I think it just paralyzes the player and everyone else who plays the game to the same course of action, which isn’t really what a (Western) RPG is all about. It may work for other genres, but not in our case.

When creating a narrative for a game, stick with a theme, and have the world and the story echo it. Make it something you’re passionate about. As an example, I’ve always liked the Star Wars movies, but I always thought the premise behind the Force sucked. And the way it works raises a lot of disturbing questions. So, for a storyline, let's go with that… and the spine of Knights of the Old Republic II begins.

But setting up a story and a theme is not enough – and doing too much story can be claustrophobic to a player. In an RPG, letting the player share the world of the story is important – while the players should react strongly to the situations and setting you present to them, you need to give the player the room to have a story on their own, based on their experiences with the system and the encounters you've set up. As an example (and a poor one, but easy to identify with), players can respond more strongly to their story of how their dwarf warrior was able to defeat 20 orcs with only 3 hit points remaining by channeling them through a narrow dungeon corridor to emerge victorious… which is solely their experience with the game, and can be far more exciting and personal to the player than something you've scripted into the storyline. To this day, people still talk about their methods for trying to keep Dogmeat alive at the end of Fallout 1 in incredible detail.

Story-wise in the world, the player's experience in the world should matter. They should see changes and consequences based on their actions, and see that their existence and actions in the world are having an impact. It should also allow a player to interpret and develop their character, both game mechanic-wise and through interaction in the world. Some RPGs can provide a static character and character type from the outset and let the player step into their shoes, but I prefer RPGs that provide the player with a blank slate that they can sketch on. In Alpha Protocol, we do this by providing a cipher for the player to step into and then begin to develop his personality and his attributes through his interaction with the game world.

If I had storytelling trademarks, I say that most of the stories and worlds I’ve worked on have tended to veer to the dark end of the spectrum. I may have a pessimistic view of the world, but I think heroic actions become more heroic in a world that’s against you rather than one that’s cheery and helpful. I also lean toward not-quite-perfect endings, where not everything ends up happily ever after, mostly because I don’t believe in that.
Wink
I also believe in unrequited romances, but George Ziets helped me break some of that in NX1, which I will be thankful to him for until the End Days.

Q: Ok, so you have a setting and a story. All you have to do is populate it with characters. How does this step work? What rules if any do you follow? Templates? Do you have a dedicated "setting support" group of characters who flesh out and explain the setting? If yes, how does that work? Also, how do you turn a cardboard cut-out or a vague concept (we could really use a ninja-pirate here!) into a memorable and "real" character who has a potential to launch his own merchandise line?

Avellone: Well, back to theme and design constraints – the characters in this world need to reinforce the theme and the game mechanic experience you’re trying to deliver to the player. In Alpha Protocol, there are a number of character archetypes the player can encounter that are hallmarks and reinforce the tension and drama of the espionage genre… and make the player feel the theme all the more. In Planescape, most characters were designed to test the player’s alignment and encourage him to explore and learn more about himself by trying to figure out what people he had interacted with before – and what kind of person(s) he was before. In Knights of the Old Republic II, a number of characters in the game have pretty strong opinions about the premise behind the Force – they think it sucks. So we made characters that explore that theme. Kreia has strong opinions about the Force, and she has a reason why she thinks it sucks. The PC also has had an experience with the Force sucking, so you make that part of the PC's backstory, but let the player come to grips with how they feel about the whole situation – all the while giving them a series of characters that either mirror or act as sounding board for the player’s struggles. Have them echo the theme in their own way, from their own perspective.

In addition, characters need to be “smart.” This may be a stupid thing to say, but their motivations need to be presented in such a way that the player can be surprised by their independence but at the same time, it makes perfect sense to them while the character is behaving the way they should – it makes them start questioning and paying attention to the characters in the world rather than taking them for granted as caricatures of quest-givers and info merchants.

Also, each character should have a simple one sentence theme that if you described it to someone, they’d be curious to know more about that character. For example, “this character is a chaste succubus.” Or “a floating undead encyclopedia.” Once you have that one sentence hook, you flesh out the character around that by asking questions. For the chaste succubus… why is she that way? What would cause her to deny everything that’s considered the nature of a succubus? And how do we turn that around to the player’s theme… does turning away from her own nature cause her any internal emotional torment? Has she had to question her own nature and then decide on a course of action that she thinks is better for her lifepath? Does she have any regrets about it? If the player is facing these kinds of struggles as well, then she becomes a sounding board for the player’s own thoughts on the matter. Of course, one could argue that the narrative designer in that case (me), also simply thought that traveling with a chaste succubus as a party member would be kind of cool. Not to mention the high level of sexual tension such a situation could cause. But I digress.

Also (and I swear, this is the last “also”), there should be a game system present in interacting with characters – interactions should be another game system in the world with its own consequences. Part of this was the reason we started developing the influence system through Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords and the Neverwinter Nights 2 series… we wanted to make the player’s evaluation of the NPC’s personality and their respect for the PC to be part of the system, with effects that translated into their morale and performance in the game. We’re carrying through with a similar system in Alpha Protocol, but it’s more tailored to the espionage aspects, and we’re pretty excited about it.

My feeling was that AoD was a better-managed project than Colony Ship, with respect to the more obvious cuts you made in CS. Is that correct, and if yes, what do you think caused it?
Since Vince is not forthcoming on why he thinks this isn't the case, I'll give my semi-informed opinion to bait Vince into writing a post-mortem or a retrospective or something. AoD went through a long vaporware development hell, with at least one engine change, several graphical total overhauls and probably a lot of poor planning that came with being the first game of a more naive developer meeting the brutal reality of putting his dream game together. Like many beansprouts in terms of game development, the fact that the team didn't compromise or cut things out in AoD would be seen by most as poor project management. The more veteran a developer is the more likely she is to take an axe to the project and remove what is taking too long, or doesn't work right, or that would cost too much.

I remember seeing early screens or mockups of Colony Ship and the final game looks more or less the same. This was how AoD looked early on.

0VGjjtq.png


I also remember Vince lamenting picking up the Torque engine and that it was an endless source of pain. He also said in 2008, I think it was, that he'd have all the combat systems done that year, seemingly being optimistic about releasing the game somewhat soon. Final release was in 2015.
 

Technomancer

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,524
didn't compromise or cut things out in AoD would be seen by most as poor project management

I mean...there are plenty of dead ends that lead nowhere if you pay attention to various things in AoD. And there are several things that never made it in and had to be scaled down and were out of scope even for post release content additions. While not being cut content in the strictest terms since it was never developed in the first place, it is still something that was envisioned and contemplated for the game and is missing. Compromises were made. To a lesser degree than with CS true, AoD was the time to dream big.
 

Üstad

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I also remember Vince lamenting picking up the Torque engine and that it was an endless source of pain. He also said in 2008, I think it was, that he'd have all the combat systems done that year, seemingly being optimistic about releasing the game somewhat soon. Final release was in 2015.
Why did they pick a pain in the ass engine that they're not experienced with? The result is better than the pic you posted but I can't but wonder.
 

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