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Cyberpunk 2077 Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Robber Baron

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
1,017
The key moment with overleveled enemies is the gamedesign logic behind their placement. Xenoblade puts overleveled enemies all over the place to make the player cautious of the surroundings, Gothic puts harder enemies further into the gameworld. If there's some logic behind high level placement and not just lazy(nuAssasins Creed like) "this area is low level and this across the road area is high level" - i'm good with it.
 

Terenty

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1,471
How would you solve the problem, without changing the game to isometric turn based or something.
Gothic and Elex handle it much better. In Elex you can even maneuver with your jetpack to gain an upper hand etc. These games feel more open to different approaches and strategies. In Gothic you can actually kill tougher enemies if you learn to block at the right time. Here you are dead because nothing can help you defend against bullets

We will see similar design in Cyberpunk, but as far as I've seen, there hasn't been any level requirements on equipment. So theoretically, it could be much better and freeform in Cyberpunk.

Yeah, there are level gated items in CP2070. The whole system is build around it just like Witcher 3

"this area is low level and this across the road area is high level" - i'm good with it.

This is exactly how it is in CP2070 (DTF.ru for Russian folks here)
 
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Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,507
even if CP77 uses similar enemy placement to Gothic, it still doesn't make sense for certain gangbangers and mobsters to be drastically more powerful than others. It makes sense for orcs to be much more dangerous and tanky than some scavenger or a molerat, it doesn't make sense for one thug to be stronger than other thug even if one of them packs enhanced cyber legs and a better shotgun.

Well, it could be explained with cybernetic enhancement, or equipment, or both. We all know that a certain amount of disbelief needs to be suspended when the abstraction of RPG systems are layered onto realtime combat. We also don't know how that kind of encounter would go down with a competent player, with a good build, and maybe some cheesily acquired equipment. We're just going to have to wait and see.

Yeah, there are level gated items in CP2070. The whole system is build around it just like Witcher 3

This is what I heard and assumed too, but looking at the inventory closely during the streams, I didn't see and level requirements for any of the equipment. Could be a UI feedback problem, or maybe there is less restrictions than there were in W3, or maybe level gated equipment just wasn't turned on for that shitty build. I'm just going off what I've actually seen.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
16,371
Fucking called it when they've shown this sequence at TGS. It was really fucking dumb of them.

I sniff that you are fucking loser who never went to a club and lives in a basement. Because you don't know what strobe light is and how popular it is especially in clubs.

Here have some window for a life outside of your basement. And this is pretty tame mind you.

 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,835
Location
Ingrija
Enemies getting bonuses until player's level reaches arbitrary value? That's reverse level scaling.

No, the idea is that the enemies are placed with static stats from the beginning of the game, or chapter in the case of Gothic. The only bonus they have is that they're higher level than the character, which isn't particularly a bonus, but just the waiting state of the enemy. At least that's how I understand it.

Are you still talking about CP77? Because that's not how it (or twitcher 3) works, to my understanding.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/explain-red-skull-enemies-to-me.136130/
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
387
vU2teMV.png
Fucking called it when they've shown this sequence at TGS. It was really fucking dumb of them.
Epilectics probably should not play/watch cyberpunk stuff in general, most of the time 50% of sets in them have flashing bright neon lights with high color range.
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,507
Are you still talking about CP77? Because that's not how it (or twitcher 3) works, to my understanding.

This was my understanding of how it worked in W3 based on my observation throughout the main campaign playthrough. Definitely open to the idea that I'm wrong about it, but would need a solid example.
 

gerey

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
3,472
How would you solve the problem, without changing the game to isometric turn based or something.
Consistency and proper worldbuilding.

Nobody expects gangbangers to put up much of a fight, nor to be equipped well enough to challenge the player outside of the early levels of the game.

Police would naturally be more of a challenge. SWAT, Trauma Teams, corporate security and other such more professional outfits would have access to much better weapons, better armor, better cyberware and make use of more "advanced" tactics (amp up their aggression and have them throw grenades more often).

If you dump the retarded Diablo-esque weapon itemization and have weapons do consistent damage, it's easy to scale the threat enemies pose without turning them into bullet sponges. Street level thugs with the futuristic equivalent of MAC-10s aren't going to put up much of a fight, but corpo security equipped with smart weapons and big sniper rifles?

On top of that then simply add more unique types of enemies - ones that can cloak themselves, ones that rush you in melee, tanks, quick-firing enemies, snipers etc. and distribute them according to the overall competence and access to equipment according to lore. Introduce non-human enemies too, like androids, drones and animals to diversity the enemy roster.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,835
Location
Ingrija
Are you still talking about CP77? Because that's not how it (or twitcher 3) works, to my understanding.

This was my understanding of how it worked in W3 based on my observation throughout the main campaign playthrough. Definitely open to the idea that I'm wrong about it, but would need a solid example.

I haven't played any CDPR game beyond first Twitcher, but if that thread is of any indication, enemies get massive bonuses on top of their base stats until you reach an arbitrary level within their respective range, at which point the bonuses disappear.
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,961
Fucking called it when they've shown this sequence at TGS. It was really fucking dumb of them.

I sniff that you are fucking loser who never went to a club and lives in a basement. Because you don't know what strobe light is and how popular it is especially in clubs.

Here have some window for a life outside of your basement. And this is pretty tame mind you.


You make some dumb fucking posts all the time, but this one might be the dumbest you've made this year. Congratulations. Your dumbfuck tag is long overdue.
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
387
How would you solve the problem, without changing the game to isometric turn based or something.
Consistency and proper worldbuilding.

Nobody expects gangbangers to put up much of a fight, nor to be equipped well enough to challenge the player outside of the early levels of the game.

Police would naturally be more of a challenge. SWAT, Trauma Teams, corporate security and other such more professional outfits would have access to much better weapons, better armor, better cyberware and make use of more "advanced" tactics (amp up their aggression and have them throw grenades more often).

If you dump the retarded Diablo-esque weapon itemization and have weapons do consistent damage, it's easy to scale the threat enemies pose without turning them into bullet sponges. Street level thugs with the futuristic equivalent of MAC-10s aren't going to put up much of a fight, but corpo security equipped with smart weapons and big sniper rifles?

On top of that then simply add more unique types of enemies - ones that can cloak themselves, ones that rush you in melee, tanks, quick-firing enemies, snipers etc. and distribute them according to the overall competence and access to equipment according to lore. Introduce non-human enemies too, like androids, drones and animals to diversity the enemy roster.
Congrats, u ran into the same content gating, cause to beat bunch of listed enemies you will need certain upgrades/guns/ammo types that will be locked behind main/sidequests as well. But now it's worse, cause you can't just farm the levels and skip shit you don't like doing, you have to complete them for rewards.

Game does not have diablo style gear btw, you have arsenal of guns with base stats that you can put of modifications on, like Deus Ex.
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,507
I haven't played any CDPR game beyond first Twitcher, but if that thread is of any indication, enemies get massive bonuses on top of their base stats until you reach an arbitrary level within their respective range, at which point the bonuses disappear.

I suppose this could very well be the case, but didn't consider it because it seems like a pointless design decision, and because I was able to beat high level "red skull" enemies through varied tactics and careful fighting on the highest difficulty. So I guess it never occurred to me there could be some kind of bonus being added on. Perkel seems to have a pretty intimate understanding of the underlying mechanics. Maybe he can shed some light.

Either way, I'm in no way saying I fully enjoyed the way they handled open world design in W3. I just never felt it deserved the hyperbole piled on it either. I do hope they approach it a bit better in CP2077, and from a few things I've seen and heard, it seems possible. Still not holding my breath.
 
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orcinator

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
1,792
Location
Republic of Kongou
How would you solve the problem, without changing the game to isometric turn based or something.
Levels are a spook, just remove them altogether.
Take STALKER for example, you didn't need to upgrade your Ak-74 into an AK-101 before the game let you kill higher tier enemies.

"Here's a lv 20 Hobo, you can't kill it so fuck off and go kill a hundred lv 10 Hobos then come back" doesn't actually make for interesting gameplay.
 

Silverfish

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
3,946
I sniff that you are fucking loser who never went to a club and lives in a basement. Because you don't know what strobe light is and how popular it is especially in clubs.

Here have some window for a life outside of your basement. And this is pretty tame mind you.



"Haha loser, you've never experienced this thing that fucking sucks dick."
 

fork

Guest
Everyone who even considers buying this should kill himself.
And yes, I realise that is a majority of the Codex now.

Weren't you banned before fork for being an utter dumbfuck?

No. I asked to be nuked. And reading this thread I'm really tempted to ask again.

People falling for this shit game and the propaganda hurts. And I'm not kidding. People accusing Dark Souls of not being an RPG advocate for this sub-par, degenerate GTA-Clone. If I didn't know better I'd laugh. But we're way past comedy territory here. This is just another symptom of how fucking degenerate and retarded our western civilisations have become. It hurts.
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
387
What is with retards who want to abolish having to level up/cheat the systems in RPGs lately? Go play fucking skyrim and do whatever you want there, enemy scaling is retarded, i want to mow down low lever mobs like a damn terminator when i max proper builds and have challenge playing around high level enemies.

And if your hero is strong enough to be even with any enemy from the start, what is the fucking point of leveling up at all?

Half of the fun in rpgs is finding ways to cheese high level encounters and doing a god run in second playthroughts with all the acquired build/geometry/mechanics knowledge.
 

Harthwain

Arcane
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,509
You can't put "people love it" on the box like you can "won all of goty awards in 2021".
You can put down all 10/10 and 9/10 from the more known sources. Add to that big marketing campaign and people who make their opinions purely by looking at the box will get hooked anyway.

Game will sell shitload no doubt about it but their goal was with this game to target rockstar level not just AAA.
I think you overvalue that point a bit. As long as the game sells in shittons and everybody is going to love it, it's all CDPR will really need to pose as an amazing video game developer.

You are behind times. Ableism is not cherishing your stumps and deafness which make you so special. Like, what next, you'll say having 4 limbs is a norm? Literally shaking rn.
...?

I went with the definition of ableism from Cambridge Dictionary...:

unfair treatment of people because they have a disability
...so I may be not up to date if the street definition of ableism is different.

Not sure what your point though, since I specifically stated that in Cyberpunk you can't really remain a cripple, so ableism is not really a thing. If anything people who are not crippling themselves (by removing flesh in order to receive mechanical augments) are being discriminated (hence "reverse ableism").
 

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