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D&D 5E Class Discussion

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by S0rcererV1ct0r, Jan 17, 2021.

  1. NJClaw I'm single now, looking for a new forum boyfriend Patron

    NJClaw
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I'm Ridin' with Biden I'm Ridin' with Biden
    Nothing good ever came out of 3.x crafting system.

    One of the premises of Pathfinder was "let's give the player a reason to keep leveling up the same class".
     
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  2. Takamori Learned

    Takamori
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    Not saying 3.x crafting was perfect given you have pages and pages of enchantments to choose from and it was a minefield of bad choices or really niche use.
    But established some sort of parameter, now 5e is almost wizards of the coast telling you to do whatever, now sum with the fact that BGS3 our Dungeonmaster is Larian I don't expect good stuff from their itemization and they will have an excuse to copy pasta from the horrible DOS2 system
     
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  3. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    What part of game journos are idiots do you not understand?

    There’s a reason they always demonstrate their meme builds in the starter dungeon and seem to be choosing spells, feats, and skills at random. They get their clicks by giving the masses what they want - confirmation of their D&D priors so they don’t have to bother playing the goddamned game.

    P:K classes feature several abilities that scale by class level, others that are locked behind class levels, and a spell casting system that relies of caster (I.e. class) level not only to penetrate Spell Resistance but also to unlock the spell levels on time for their DC to beat mob saves.

    Another way to look at it is that you get most of the benefits of multiclassing through the many hybrid classes Pathfinder offers. You’re better off accentuating your strengths and relying on sound party design to ameliorate weaknesses.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
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  4. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    A 5E class discussion was definitely off-topic in a thread about a game based on 5E.
     
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  5. Black Arcane

    Black
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    0 days without jewish tricks.
     
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  6. Takamori Learned

    Takamori
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    Guess we should have spammed the thread with we want to fuck X BGS3 girl to not be off topic?
     
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  7. Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Arcane

    Tuco Benedicto Pacifico
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    At what point did "game journos" even enter this conversation?
    What the fuck is wrong with you?
     
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  8. Sweeper Arcane Zionist Agent

    Sweeper
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    Sir this is a grognard forum.
     
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  9. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Who do you think writes the guides and top builds, dipshit?

    What’s wrong with me is off topic. My general approach grows out of the natural corollary to the observation that a man can’t be reasoned out of a position that he wasn’t reasoned into.

    Decline in RPG design is at least 50% demand-side and the better part of that is lazy thinking from people who should know better.

    Git gud.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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  10. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    3.5e was trash
    AD&D or go home
     
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  11. Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Arcane

    Tuco Benedicto Pacifico
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    The overwhelming majority of times? Other users, you fucking sperg.
     
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  12. Spectacle Arcane Patron

    Spectacle
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    Indeed! But on the plus side, this way the prestigious D&D class discussion won't get interrupted by random posts about popamole CRPGs.
     
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  13. aleph Arcane

    aleph
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    So keep modern trash like 3.5 out of the discussion.
     
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  14. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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  15. Tacgnol Shitlord Patron

    Tacgnol
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    To add to this, I hardly ever see wild multi classing on the Pathfinder tabletop. All these weird multiclass builds mostly seem to be a Kingmaker thing, probably because Kingmaker is purely a numbers game and also Owlcat fucked up the implementation of a lot of rules, so a lot of things that are not practical in the tabletop are viable in the game.

    The most I've really seen on the tabletop are barbarians occasionally taking a one level dip into the Unbreakable fighter archetype to get a bunch of free feats, and I also once played with someone that did a Necromancer build from an Oracle base that took a bunch of dips and prestige classes.
     
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  16. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    PF1E did a good job at putting a bandaid on the fucked up multiclass situation of 3E/3.5E.
     
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  17. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Then why aren’t you reading us instead of them?
     
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  18. Alex Arcane

    Alex
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    Yes! So stop talking about 3e and talk about a good edition. Like 2e.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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  19. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    No, anyone who tries both in P:K will find the same thing, it’s just the lazy fools like Tuco trusted the journos/their own 3.5 priors and never even played the actual game as designed.
     
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  20. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I enjoy both the 3.5 style and those more committed to carrying on the original Gygax vision (see P:K companion design and - gasp - non-minmaxxed stats).

    If we want great devs we owe it to them to play their games as designed before passing judgment on them one way or another instead of shoehorning them into our own preconceived notions then complaining about the fit.
     
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  21. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Tabletop is routinely played without minmaxed stats.
     
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  22. Grampy_Bone Arcane

    Grampy_Bone
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    My players rarely if ever multiclassed. In 3E PRCs were the shizit.

    3E may have suffered from scaling issues and bloat but 4E sucked all the fun and creativity out of the game for me. No interest in bothering with 5E after that. Both 4E and 5E strike me as games designed by low-int DMs who could never figure out a way to challenge players beyond level 4. "Oh no, my players defeated my awesome ambush by flying over it!" This was the legacy of the low-XP bug that was added in 2E.

    I've pointed this out many times but it bears repeating, 2E was often a very low-powered game because people were playing it wrong. The XP tables were designed to use GP = XP, but the actual rule for XP for treasure was listed as "optional." People assumed this meant 'non-standard,' and they played without it. The rules said if you didn't use treasure XP then you should use quest XP. But this was also an 'optional' rule, so many games used neither. As a result your only source of XP in 2E was combat, which was a paltry 15 xp per goblin, divided 4+ ways, and you needed 2000 to level. Yikes.

    Many such 2E games never made it past levels 2-4. This gave D&D its reputation for glacial leveling and grueling fights. On top of that, a way overblown reaction to 'monty haul' led to DMs treating +1 daggers as one-of-a-kind ultimate artifacts. 2E was a boring AF game at most tables.

    When 3E came along they revamped the XP system so players could actually reach level 5, and so many DMs were like "that's PoWErGaMIng!" They didn't enjoy players having access to spells and powers that let them, you know, win fights. The urge to nerf was so insane I saw 3E games where half the classes, spells, feats, and magic items were all banned.

    Yes, 3E could get pretty crazy, and some players got so cheesy with their builds it could ruin the fun for the rest of the players. The real problem in 3E was the difference between an optimized build and someone who just took whatever. But I never once had a problem challenging my PCs with 3E.

    4E and 5E are an attempt to bring back the suck. Make the game slower, more boring, fewer level ups, tightly restricted magic and items, hard limits with no justification, and keep the players on the ground so they can't fly over the DM's super cool ambush he spent all night on.
     
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  23. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    DMs had trouble challenging parties past level 4 because they already started having ready answers and tools for every situation. Fireball itself is a problem all on its own.
     
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  24. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Sure, but encounters in cramped corridors are never really a problem or occur that often, and so don't necessitate fireball usage. It's always about dealing (hueg) AoE damage to a lot of creatures, a 10 foot wide corridor isn't the most likely candidate or the place where a party could be challenged 99% of the time. Fireball is a symptom, not the cause, it's just a very widely known one.
     
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