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Vapourware Daggerfall Unity isnt Vaporware

Miles Davis or John Coltrane?

  • Miles Davis

    Votes: 45 28.1%
  • John Coltrane

    Votes: 48 30.0%
  • Kenny G (kc response)

    Votes: 67 41.9%

  • Total voters
    160

Bohrain

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Being the popamole I am I never played the original, save the one attempt where I died once in Freebooters Hold and uninstalled. Wanted to give this a try since I heard the QoL changes were pretty significant.
I can appreciate some of the design elements like the critical strength/weakness and skill growth system the class creation has. It's something they should've kept in the later titles, since the large maluses like forbidden armor materials give a huge boosts. Also funnily enough despite Daggerfall not being a true 3D game the dungeons feel the most three dimensional in it, since you are forced to move vertically with climbing, levitation or swimming. I can see reasons why this wasn't a case in Morrowind, since you are no longer dealing with only flat surfaces, climbing becomes a shitload more complex and you also have the player model in 3rd person where animations and clipping would have to be considered. But it's a shame that they essentially just ditched the aspect and made their dungeons linear and two-dimensional in the later titles. Gold having weight also gives some management aspect that I found irritating at first, but it does make sense and make you consider when to turn your savings to letters of credit. The game also has a lot of lategame money sinks with the housing.
As for the cons I can already feel myself demotivated by the fact that it's essentially all procedurally generated content. And even with the automapping the dungeons are a drag, though I don't think I used the smaller dungeon settings yet. But I went to Mannimarco's lair and spent like 3 hours exploring that place without finding him, then had to google and realized that he was behind the one locked door I forgot to break. It just becomes irritating after a point. And while the different regions have some flavour variety in terms of architecture, by and large the scale just makes the game feel worse because it's all just empty space between templates.
 

Torus

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Jul 20, 2021
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Yeah it's a strange game in that it needs regular console commands to flow well. I just teleported to quest target once i was satisfied with the current dungeon.
 

Kabas

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funnily enough despite Daggerfall not being a true 3D game the dungeons feel the most three dimensional in it
One of the greatest aspects about daggerfall dungeons. Scaling the walls and swimming in the dark caverns in between monster slaying do make you feel like an adventurer.
Unfortunately, navigating the satan digestive system maze can only be funny a few times.
 

Bohrain

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
funnily enough despite Daggerfall not being a true 3D game the dungeons feel the most three dimensional in it
One of the greatest aspects about daggerfall dungeons. Scaling the walls and swimming in the dark caverns in between monster slaying do make you feel like an adventurer.
Unfortunately, navigating the satan digestive system maze can only be funny a few times.
Yeah even with the 3D automapping it gets confusing. I wouldn't have even bothered if I had to use the breadcrump strat or map it out manually.
 

SharkClub

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Strap Yourselves In
I actually quite like the mazelike dungeons, though some objectives being found behind necessary hidden doors can be a pain at times. The dungeons in Daggerfall (much like poorly made Thief FMs, of which I have played hundreds) are a real test of your spatial awareness and navigational skills, I find they actively engage my brain far more than most types of dungeon crawling found in games. I realize I am in the minority when I say this though. Have you tried the Smaller Dungeons option in the Daggerfall Unity launcher? It should effectively compress the dungeon crawl a bit and make it more manageable for the less autism-focused among us.
 

Bohrain

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I played the GoG one with an older version without the option. Maybe I'll come back to it after a while.
 

unseeingeye

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I've been replaying Daggerfall Unity the past few days and my God, I'd forgotten how much I love this game. The last time I messed around with the Unity version was back in early 2021 so almost a year ago, and the mod community has released some seriously awesome stuff during the interim of my absence. Transparent Windows alone makes the game significantly more immersive, but there are so many remarkable mods I've been trying that make me very excited for what potentially will follow. I listened to the interview Zaric Zahakaron did with a modder (I forget his name, but he made the Warm Ashes mod, among others) and the work he and his team are doing on the World of Daggerfall mod has me more hype than any gaming news I've heard in probably 20 years, lol. I'm even playing it with my Xbox One controller and it is... surprisingly awesome? I still have to use the keyboard for a few things but for dungeon crawling it is entirely feasible with a controller and feels very similar to playing Morrowind with one. I'll probably return to playing with mouse and keyboard only, its just that my whole setup is very awkward; I'm using a very powerful gaming laptop but have it closed resting in a cooling container and hooked up to a widescreen monitor and external keyboard, mouse, and speakers or headphones, while the desk is a very compact writers desk that belonged to my grandfather but have it in a corner of my bedroom right next to the door. I can't even fit my legs beneath the desk and between the monitor base and the laptop setup I have about 3 square inches of mouse space, so it is very uncomfortable.

Anyway I'm feeling the love for Daggerfall coming over me yet again, and my feelings for the Unity version only continue to grow as it improves. I actually was an early adapter but even when it was feature complete I would mainly play the original patched version because certain fundamental features felt "off" in it, like the chance-to-hit and the speed of combat with the reflexes at the highest setting. It still isn't a perfect match and likely never will be because of the loss of the source code, but that team has gotten it down so near perfectly that there is basically no reason to use the original anymore outside of nostalgia, especially now that it offers Retro Rendering Mode and lets you retain the original HUD while adjusting for the viewport to either be constrained to above the HUD or to take up the whole screen. To my mind it is nearly indistinguishable from the original, but with the potential to be modded in ways the original couldn't have been, and I am once again impressed by what they've accomplished.

As for the GOG version, I haven't even tried it, but honestly this isn't even a question of whether or not you should take the time to learn how to manage things like Mod Organizer 2, DnyDOLOD, Wrye Bash, MGE XE and so on; it is literally as simple as downloading a zipped file, unzipping it, and dropping the file into the appropriate folder, almost always the one called "Mods" with few exceptions for things like Quest Packs and Textures. It couldn't be any simpler and the GOG version is just going to be a continually outdated ordeal.

Currently I'm running just over 40 mods and it has been so far the best experience playing Daggerfall I've ever had, and I've loved this damn game for a very long time. I've adjusted things with certain mods to run flawlessly and am overwhelmed by the beauty of the game. I don't use any texture overhauls or skybox replacers because I love the painted backgrounds, but I have Wilderness Overhaul with Distant Terrain and Mountains and Hills running together, with the menus Terrain Distance setting set to 3. I also use the Retro Rendering Mode but keep it fullscreen and don't use any of the postprocessing effects. I do use a bunch of the Unity features though, like the altered bow drawing option, the arrow counter, vitals indicators, tool tips etc but I don't use the SDF font rendering (I love the original font, where the new one just clashes too much with the rest of the interface) and although I tried using click-to-attack I ended up turning it back to vanilla because in the early game when actually landing a hit matters far more than how powerful the hit is, not being able to control what kind of swing or thrust I am doing is a pretty big problem. The chance to hit has a significant modifier for the various attack patterns and I find that on the click setting it rarely utilizes the forward thrust, or at least that was my experience.

I still have my original Daggerfall manual and everything and it is a lot of fun to break out the old box and everything and get all into making a character. One mod that I glanced at but ended up passing over is the aforementioned Quest Offer Locations, but after reading the post recommending it I think I may actually give that one a try. I've made two characters and neither are very far into the game yet as I plan to start over once I have a satisfactory loadout, but so far the only mod of the 40+ I've installed that I ended up removing is the Convenient Clock mod. It sort of ruins the experience for me because I end up feeling like I'm constantly on a timer and obsessively glancing down at it, plus the only option that looked decent is the horizontal time bar (the one with the stars and suns on a strip) which works fine if you're using fullscreen mode with the Arena compass, but I like to sometimes play with the original HUD and the clock just does not fit well with it no matter what I tried. Every other mod though seems to be working as expected so I may be about finished setting it all up, Quest Offer Locations aside. I wanted to try World of Daggerfall but since it is still a work in progress I decided to hold off for now. I remember trying Tedious Travel back before it got changed to the Travelling Options mod and I didn't really care for it, but trying it now in its current form with the Basic Roads mod is really amazing, especially with the opaque map overlay feature showing the roads! It feels good to be back in Daggerfall and I can't wait to see what else the modders come up with.
 

unseeingeye

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I'd actually watched this a few days ago, yet completely forgot until a few minutes in. I don't know if that signifies how forgettable and redundant the video is or that my memory retention has gotten significantly worse than I suspected. Either way, and I know he was mostly joking, but the way so many people outright dismiss Arena has gotten kind of old as has the exaggerated difficulty or unplayable condition. It lacks some of the key features that make Daggerfall more approachable but it really isn't that difficult so long as you read at least the part in the manual that describes what is and isn't available to each class and make a decision that will fit your intentions going in. I'm very fond of Arena even if it doesn't measure up to the sequel, its still a great game and has some amazing dungeons. I remember getting lost in Fang Lair for so long while filling out the map and making notes only to eventually realize how close to the entrance the parchment is. The biggest problem with that game is the disconnect experienced when in combat and the extremely slow turn speed, but otherwise to me it is a great game. Combat in Ultima Underworld isn't much better and that game is a masterpiece. Arena is like a combination of Ultimate Underworld and Legends of Valour, but greatly expanded.
 

Orud

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
Being too young to have really enjoyed this game back when it was released, I decided to finally try it out last week. Holy fuck, do I love this game.

I first tried it barebones, and while I could already appreciate it for what it was, once I installed mods like 'Quest Pack1' I'm just completely hooked. The systems are far more reminiscent to a 1D100 3E D&D system and that somehow manages to touch my funnybone. I've always resented the ES character systems, but I absolutely LOVE the character building in this game.

I've wasted every free hour the past week and a half on this game and I can't get enough. Easily my favorite ES game so far.
 
Last edited:
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Codex Year of the Donut
If someone is going to make the damned thing from scratch, why not at least update it to more modern graphical standards? Even Unreal Tournament level would work. A lot of Daggerfall's presentation was abstracted, where things appeared the way they did in the game due to engine limitations.

Seeing as how you can't recreate it with the Oblivion CS due to engine limitations, it seems some kind of happy medium can be struck.

I dunno. I wish the guy luck. If nothing else, it'll be a stable, Windows native platform to experience the game on. That seems to be his goal, so more power to him I guess.
Do you still think it should look like oblivion?
 

mastroego

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Despite my doubts about level scaling, recent posts from users here convinced me to finally try and install this.
After all I have Skyrim already for the Requiem approach.

Since this involves modding I'm gonna need to proceed slowly and calmly, don't want to be overwhelmed.
Do I need a tool to handle mod?
Any recommended modlists?
 

Orud

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
If there is one mod that really improved Daggerfall for me, and I'd recommend everyone to get, it's this quest pack: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity/mods/2?tab=posts

What it does is increase the variation of random guild quests and encounters that happen. The majority of these also offer alternative objectives instead of another dungeon crawl. Skill checks are also more prevalent in dialogue or actions.

Even for a first playthrough I can heavily recommend it, since it doesn't change any fundamentals that make Daggerfall what it is.
 
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mastroego

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Thanks, will certainly add it.
I've found a couple of lists to more or less follow.

The big decision is whether to go with D.R.E.A.M. or with Vanilla Enhanced....
 

SharkClub

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The big decision is whether to go with D.R.E.A.M. or with Vanilla Enhanced....
Neither. The original art style of the game is perfectly fine when left intact instead of throwing it in the trash for AI upscaling and the face that never remembered. Do yourself a favour and don't taint your experience with that shit.
 
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d1r

Busin 0 Wizardry Alternative Neo fanatic
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What exactly are recommended mods for Dagerfall Unity as for now?

And are there any mods that add random encounters like meeting NPC's in the wilderness?
 

Orud

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And are there any mods that add random encounters like meeting NPC's in the wilderness?
You might want to try 'Warm Ashes' : https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity/mods/6, and I'd also recommend 'Basic Roads' https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity/mods/134 so there are simple roads between every city (does the opposite of harming immersion).

Neither. The original art style of the game is perfectly fine when left intact instead of throwing it in the trash for AI upscaling and the face that never remembered. Do yourself a favour and don't taint your experience with that shit.
Completely agree, the original pixel artstyle is still good. I started with DREAMS, since the GOG installation enables it by default, but I immediately turned it off and haven't looked back. The only thing I do change about the original graphics, is the draw distance (and additional hills/mountainous terrain).
Being able to find the Underking's lair by crawling up a mountain and looking for kilometers around me just so I might see something felt incredible. Never experienced something like this kind of exploration before, and I'll have a hard time going back to other RPG's that don't have levitate or climbing.
 

mastroego

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Thanks for the comments guys.
I honestly do not like the original graphics, and actually a few D.R.E.A.M screenshots look nice (like the dungeons), but browsing through them a bit longer I see where you guys are coming from, some characters are really derpy and overall it looks inconsistent.
I might stay with the vanilla look after all or use the enhanced version at most.

I have found a few comprehensive lists made by a guy who goes by Jwlar. He provides a few "builds", from bug-fixed-Vanilla to realistic overhauls.
I guess I'll start from there for "inspiration" :)
 

Lyric Suite

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I actually quite like the mazelike dungeons, though some objectives being found behind necessary hidden doors can be a pain at times. The dungeons in Daggerfall (much like poorly made Thief FMs, of which I have played hundreds) are a real test of your spatial awareness and navigational skills, I find they actively engage my brain far more than most types of dungeon crawling found in games. I realize I am in the minority when I say this though. Have you tried the Smaller Dungeons option in the Daggerfall Unity launcher? It should effectively compress the dungeon crawl a bit and make it more manageable for the less autism-focused among us.

I'm complete in the same boat as you. I fell in love with the dungeons because of their complexity. Having played hundreds of custom Thief maps i'm just a glutton to having my spatial awarness challenged. The first dungeon this game throws at you is among the biggest i've ever seen in a game of this type and once you get out of it you realize it was just a tutorial and the real dungeons you encounter are actually much, much bigger. And considering this game is nothing BUT the dungeons if you are not into map exploration you probably are not going to care much about the game because the surface stuff is mostly just fluff. The heart of the game is the dungeon crawling the open world stuff is trivial.

Instead of pointless pretty graphics the dev should focus on improving the algorithm for dungeon generation and also clear up the bugs and some of the jankiness in the skills as once you start growing in level the game becomes like a pseudo-Deus Ex where you get an extensive tool set to overcome many of the obstacles you find in the dungeons.
 

SharkClub

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Instead of pointless pretty graphics the dev should focus on improving the algorithm for dungeon generation
To be entirely fair to the dev, he just developed the platform to play Daggerfall in, with the usual expected stuff like supporting higher resolutions and minor changes, he also supported Retro Rendering Mode on top of that for a much more authentic to DOSBox look. It's a minority of modders with huge egos that think they can improve on the original game's art style by spamming AI upscales that come with horrendous melted goop faces, and then the goyslop consumers who automatically assume that if the mod has higher resolution textures then it must be better than the original textures, they end up piling on to that mod page with praise and end up making every layman that comes across the game think the game is meant to look like that (the horrendous GOG cut comes with the DREAM mod pre-installed, for example).

As for cleaning up the dungeon generation algorithm, that is probably something for a mod to mess with rather than the developer. The dungeons in Daggerfall are procedurally generated, yes, but they were procedurally generated way back when Daggerfall was in development, so they are actually the same layout on every playthrough (this is how I've come to understand it at least, maybe I'm missing something). The random feeling of them pretty much comes from the fact that there are thousands of them and you will almost never be given a quest to the same one in normal gameplay unless you're in a very small region. I'm not even sure if the algorithm that was originally used to generate them would even be accessible by Interkarma or a modder to mess with it (as it was done during the development period), but I assume a new one could be written and applied to the game.
 

V_K

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The dungeons in Daggerfall are procedurally generated, yes, but they were procedurally generated way back when Daggerfall was in development, so they are actually the same layout on every playthrough
Main quest dungeons and capital cities in Daggerfall are manually designed. Everything else is procedurally generated at runtime - but with a fixed seed. So yes, the general layout of all dungeons remains the same from game to game - but the position of the quest item and IIRC the type of monsters that inhabit the dungeon are randomly generated when the quest is created with a dynamic seed.
The dungeon generation algorithms are very much accessible to modders. Daggerfall Unity actually comes with a "smaller dungeons" setting that makes sidequest dungeons significantly more compact.
However, the dungeons are not generated the same way as in roguelikes, but put together from pre-made blocks. What DFU cannot do is change these blocks themselves.
 
Joined
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Codex Year of the Donut
Instead of pointless pretty graphics
honk
If someone is going to make the damned thing from scratch, why not at least update it to more modern graphical standards?

I agree with you concerning the need to update DF's graphics.

Lookin good. The new engine makes it a much smoother game. I'm sure people will start updating the graphics when he's done. Pretty awesome ;P

Xi said:
I'm sure people will start updating the graphics when he's done.

Sure hope so, because even with the new engine it still looks like shit because of the original art assets.

No, I've been holding out. I don't mind antique graphics but that low resolution just makes it so chunky you can barely tell what anything is

and so forth
first half of this thread is "mah grafx..."
 

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