Deadfire - advice and is it worth it?

[nimateb]

Anyone tried playing this solo? It's the only way I had any fun with the first

 

[Nikanuur]

Hello all, now that it's been about two years I can finally update you. It was, indeed, not worth it.

I gave it about ten hours. One main, and perhaps autistic gripe, is spells/abilities refresh after combat so you can just spam your best abilities/spells etc, leaving no resource management or creativity in combat. Dialogue/story subpar too, but that was to be expected.

Please state 2 games from the RPG genre that do story-telling / dialogues very well, and please say why.

Elden Ring

And why? What makes the story-telling good in Elden Ring, and an ass in Deadfire, as you said?

 

[Yosharian]

Hello all, now that it's been about two years I can finally update you. It was, indeed, not worth it.

I gave it about ten hours. One main, and perhaps autistic gripe, is spells/abilities refresh after combat so you can just spam your best abilities/spells etc, leaving no resource management or creativity in combat. Dialogue/story subpar too, but that was to be expected.

Please state 2 games from the RPG genre that do story-telling / dialogues very well, and please say why.

Elden Ring

And why? What makes the story-telling good in Elden Ring, and an ass in Deadfire, as you said?

I like the characters in ER and I'm interested in what happens to them (even if the storytelling is barely 'telling' at all, these motherfuckers take the idea of Show Not Tell to a whole new level)

I would love to shoot the characters from Deadfire in the face and then reload the game then shoot them in the face again

Specifically I want to find the person who is reasonable for Xoti and ask them to never write anything ever again

But really if you want me to write a novel on why Deadfire has shit writing that ship has sailed, I no longer care enough about Obsidian to devote time to critiquing their shit products

 

[Yosharian]

Anyone tried playing this solo? It's the only way I had any fun with the first

It's weird and jarring without having companions around

Like fucking a corpse, all the raw materials are there but it's missing something vital

 

[LibertyRansom]

Hello all, now that it's been about two years I can finally update you. It was, indeed, not worth it.

I gave it about ten hours. One main, and perhaps autistic gripe, is spells/abilities refresh after combat so you can just spam your best abilities/spells etc, leaving no resource management or creativity in combat. Dialogue/story subpar too, but that was to be expected.

Please state 2 games from the RPG genre that do story-telling / dialogues very well, and please say why.

Vampire: Masquerade Bloodlines and Star Control 2.

They had consistent and interesting worlds. You want to discover more as you play. Characters and development of plot are also superb.

Look, I liked PoE I, despite the fact that the world and story was meh and the dialogue was boring lore dumps. I just couldn't do it for PoE II this time around, and the dumbing down of allowing spammed abilities with full refresh clinched it for me.

 

[Goldschmidt]

Hello all, now that it's been about two years I can finally update you. It was, indeed, not worth it.

I gave it about ten hours. One main, and perhaps autistic gripe, is spells/abilities refresh after combat so you can just spam your best abilities/spells etc, leaving no resource management or creativity in combat. Dialogue/story subpar too, but that was to be expected.

Please state 2 games from the RPG genre that do story-telling / dialogues very well, and please say why.

Vampire: Masquerade Bloodlines and Star Control 2.

They had consistent and interesting worlds. You want to discover more as you play. Characters and development of plot are also superb.

Look, I liked PoE I, despite the fact that the world and story was meh and the dialogue was boring lore dumps. I just couldn't do it for PoE II this time around, and the dumbing down of allowing spammed abilities with full refresh clinched it for me.

In all honesty, this is all fuckin subjective. I am really scratching my head wondering how VTM can be considered that much better in terms of lore and plot.

Also, Deadfire is the TRUE spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn. In that game practically everyone rested so much, you had all your spells active all the time. So Deadfire implemented some quality of life there and gave the player access to all abilities per combat encounter. If you got problems with that, you really are a fuckin autist, like you said. I say it is a great convenience to let the player skip resting to get his entire arsenal ready for the next encounter.

Deadfire also offers a lot of quests with great c&c, better than Fallout/Baldur's Gate/Arcanum/DAO. On the codex, choices and consequences are praised but since Deadfire was real time with pause, the autistic hivemind hated the game and saw no redeeming qualities. This forum is just a marketplace where all turn based autists come together to praise their turn based games in a turn based way.

 

[Yosharian]

Also, Deadfire is the TRUE spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn

 

[Desiderius]

There are similarities.

 

[agris]

There are similarities.

truly; mice, keyboards, computers, etc. it's a spiritual sequel.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Goldschmidt I've tried twice to get into Deadfire, but wasn't able to. I quit PoE1 at gates of Twin Elms, knowing how close I was to the end. I wanted to like them, and tried, but I just don't like the classes, spells, or abilities. That the setting is like a plagiarized Forgotten Realms doesn't help either. These games were on the right track, but missed the mark. I attribute this to the the stretch goals promising features before the system was even created. The entire ruleset is a gimmick.

 

[gurugeorge]

What, really, is the problem with per-encounter spells/abilities?

I mean if you're not going to go the full Vancian route and have that level of resource management and strategic thinking, why not just have more toys at your disposal in every encounter?

 

[Goldschmidt]

Goldschmidt I've tried twice to get into Deadfire, but wasn't able to. I quit PoE1 at gates of Twin Elms, knowing how close I was to the end. I wanted to like them, and tried, but I just don't like the classes, spells, or abilities. That the setting is like a plagiarized Forgotten Realms doesn't help either. These games were on the right track, but missed the mark. I attribute this down the the stretch goals promising features before the system was even created. The entire ruleset is a gimmick.

To be fair, I am not demanding anyone to play this game. Everyone has their own cups of tea. I tried several games that I ditched X hours in.

 

[Nikanuur]

I respectfully nod, LibertyRandom, to the good taste shown there by those VtM and StarControl 2. Still can't agree about PoEs but thank you for taking the time to answer.

 

[Butter]

What, really, is the problem with per-encounter spells/abilities?

I mean if you're not going to go the full Vancian route and have that level of resource management and strategic thinking, why not just have more toys at your disposal in every encounter?

The IE games cocked things up by letting the player rest anywhere, when previous D&D games had already solved this. The Gold Box games had safe places where you could rest in a dungeon, and resting elsewhere almost always gave you an encounter. Obsidian felt compelled to follow the IE approach with Pillars, though they tried to fix it with camping supplies. This ultimately failed because they knew that somewhere, someone would fuck up so badly that if he didn't have access to infinite camping supplies, he'd be soft-locked. So essentially the system is the exact same as in the IE games, just with a bit of hassle on top. Still, the IE/PoE1 approach was still better than Deadfire because you could choose to not rest. If you want more challenge, you can say "I'm only going to rest every fourth or fifth encounter". Deadire doesn't give you this opportunity.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

What, really, is the problem with per-encounter spells/abilities?

I mean if you're not going to go the full Vancian route and have that level of resource management and strategic thinking, why not just have more toys at your disposal in every encounter?

The problems only come at the higher end of the gameplay power curve. Per encounter spells means alpha-strike with your most powerful spells and work your way down the list. Encounters and the spells themselves have to then be balanced out for this. This is exactly what happened in PoE2. You wind up with magic that is "meh".

This isn't necessary a problem for settings with lower power levels than D&D/Forgotten Realms. Still, it places a limit on what can be done. Ultimately, my biggest complaint with spells and abilities in PoE was not the power level, but how everything was shoe-horned into a gimmick. Wizards do this contrived thing, Clerics do that contrived thing, Ciphers do this contrived thing, etc. There was no overlap, which made everything granular in a dreadful and tedious manner. I felt like that was present not just in spells and abilities, but just about every class themselves.

 

[Desiderius]

What, really, is the problem with per-encounter spells/abilities?

I mean if you're not going to go the full Vancian route and have that level of resource management and strategic thinking, why not just have more toys at your disposal in every encounter?

I liked the mix in PoE. Spiking (and needing to) is fun.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I was tempted to play a PoE game a few years ago until I heard there are drag queen entertainers in it. I have carefully constructed my life around avoiding having to see things like that.

Spoiler

 

[Morality Games]

Hello all, now that it's been about two years I can finally update you. It was, indeed, not worth it.

I gave it about ten hours. One main, and perhaps autistic gripe, is spells/abilities refresh after combat so you can just spam your best abilities/spells etc, leaving no resource management or creativity in combat. Dialogue/story subpar too, but that was to be expected.

Please state 2 games from the RPG genre that do story-telling / dialogues very well, and please say why.

Elden Ring

And why? What makes the story-telling good in Elden Ring, and an ass in Deadfire, as you said?

Elden Ring's minimalistic, atmospheric approach to narrative and worldbuilding gives far less opportunity for the characters to annoy you. Deadfire is packed to the brim with characters who you want to shut up and Elden Ring with characters you wish they would say more. The world of Elden Ring is also pretty lonesome because the Lands Between are essentially post-apocalyptic and the survivors are emotionally distant because most of them are coping with some form of PTSD ('the Shattering' that happened before the Tarnished player character shows up was all really, really bad), so it feels good when you find people to talk to (especially if they're clearing up the mystery of what the fuck is going on in the world), whereas characters in Deadfire are constantly demanding your attention overexplaining every minute detail of the setting and its factions.

Not that I necessarily see a problem with these different approaches to building a world and its characters, but Elden Ring has broader appeal because the mysteries and uncertainties of the open world invite curiosity and draw players in. Investigating Deadfire in comparison feels a bit like studying for a test.

 

[Yosharian]

Deadfire is packed to the brim with characters who you want to shut up

I completely agree but I would also add that ER's minimalist approach to story telling is a) not everyone's cup of tea and b) does take a bit of getting used to when you're used to being spoonfed a game's story

 

[Yosharian]

I think that Deadfire fails so hard less because of the approach and more because DF's writing is just so fucking bad

Not everywhere, some bits aren't so bad, but there's enough core writing that's atrocious that it just ruins the game

 

[Haplo]

Well, that really depends on what you want from a game.
If you're there for the story, then sure, Deadfire is dissapointing.

On the other hand, I'm honestly surprised how people tend to praise something like blobbers, which usually hardly have any story worth mentioning, but a quasi-isometric crpg gets shitted on because it fails narrative-wise.
Double standards?

Anyway, I've found most other aspects of Deadfire good to great.

 

[Nikanuur]

Hello all, now that it's been about two years I can finally update you. It was, indeed, not worth it.

I gave it about ten hours. One main, and perhaps autistic gripe, is spells/abilities refresh after combat so you can just spam your best abilities/spells etc, leaving no resource management or creativity in combat. Dialogue/story subpar too, but that was to be expected.

Please state 2 games from the RPG genre that do story-telling / dialogues very well, and please say why.

Elden Ring

And why? What makes the story-telling good in Elden Ring, and an ass in Deadfire, as you said?

Elden Ring's minimalistic, atmospheric approach to narrative and worldbuilding gives far less opportunity for the characters to annoy you. Deadfire is packed to the brim with characters who you want to shut up and Elden Ring with characters you wish they would say more. The world of Elden Ring is also pretty lonesome because the Lands Between are essentially post-apocalyptic and the survivors are emotionally distant because most of them are coping with some form of PTSD ('the Shattering' that happened before the Tarnished player character shows up was all really, really bad), so it feels good when you find people to talk to (especially if they're clearing up the mystery of what the fuck is going on in the world), whereas characters in Deadfire are constantly demanding your attention overexplaining every minute detail of the setting and its factions.

Not that I necessarily see a problem with these different approaches to building a world and its characters, but Elden Ring has broader appeal because the mysteries and uncertainties of the open world invite curiosity and draw players in. Investigating Deadfire in comparison feels a bit like studying for a test.

That's a bad argument. I mean, it's great how ER works, I agree. And I am happy for your good taste there. But you just stated why you don't like something, not why it is bad. This is an unfortunate, stereotypical issue: subjective vs. objective. There is nothing wrong with being subjective; quite the contrary, however, it is wrong to not be aware of it and present it as general truth.
Somebody poking you with an iron prod is (mostly) objectively bad. People talking to you, going on about their livid lives, as is normal in life, and you not liking it—that means you are either anti-social, introverted, or tired, but it's not bad at all; it's okay and normal. In an exotic landscape, it should actually be generally considered beautiful—no matter that you yourself would like something else.

Now, the same goes with story-telling. You might like a subtly hinted main story in an otherwise semi-empty world, I love that too. But I also happen to like an overcrowded, livid world full of things to discover and storIES and lore galore to unveil. I'd argue that an RPG doesn't need the best of main lines to be judged a good game if other stories are okay, if the role-play is okay, if the adventure part is okay, and if its heart is in the right place. Again, we're at "I don't like one of the features" vs. "Is there various good content to be found".

 

[Nikanuur]

That being said, I won't defend PoE II's main line nor should I think that you *have to* like it. That would be big-headed. I liked it myself, to be honest, all the gods' businesses and phenomena far beyond the grasp of mere humans yet still touching everyone in the most profound ways, but I understand why people don't generally like the fractured PoE II's telling.

 

[gurugeorge]

Part of the problem is maybe that for those of us who are compulsive completionists, having lore overload, too many books to read, too many expositions, etc., just wears us down. Whereas ackshually if you play a game like Deadfire in a more focused way, without that febrile need for completion, the amount of all that stuff is just right, just enough to enrich the journey as you go.

It's always the same conundrum with CRPGs, not just in terms of lore and story, but in terms of items, POIs, etc. - the more devs squirrel away in the world, the better and more alive-seeming the game is for someone who's just playing it as an adventure, the worse and more overloaded it seems for someone who's a compulsive completionist.

 

[Butter]

On the other hand, I'm honestly surprised how people tend to praise something like blobbers, which usually hardly have any story worth mentioning, but a quasi-isometric crpg gets shitted on because it fails narrative-wise.
Double standards?

Minimal story isn't a problem. Being forced to endure a bad story is a problem.