Game News Diablo III Muslim Controversy

[shihonage]

Games in general are fine. No one is cutting kids' feet off for kicking a rock around. There's even computer games sponsored by the iranian government which aren't even dogmatic.

 

[muslimgamer]

Sorry, iI just couldn't leave this one thing alone.
Dear muslim gamer, You yourself should try to find out why a lot of the stars are called what are they called today and all that algebra stuff. When You really look at the history, you'll realise that at the time muslim world was the cenre of human enlightement precisely because it wasn't as hard on the religious dogma bullshit as Europe was with their papal dark ages back then. And do You know why everything changed since and algebra/star names is the only truly groundbraking scientific thing that's left? That's right - religious morons hijacked the whole thing and stoned back the muslim world to dark ages. Mostly by banning books that they felt was offending their religion.
And that is also a major reason why most of the muslim world is still knee deep in camel shit up to this day. Your religious centre is in a country where women are being lashed for driving cars ffs.

Hi Velius
I actually completely agree with you on this one. Muslims had their spotlight time in history and yes, they did decline and yes that decline is still present today. And yes the wahabis in Saudi are part of that.

Now if youre asking me should women be able to drive cars? Yep they should and do in almost every Muslim country in the world. Blame the Wahabi's for that one, not the religion.

Should religion be questioned and books that question both religion and anything else logically be free to do that - Yep most definitely, im with you on that.

Are there any true Islamic countries int he world today? - Nope, not one country int he world is an Islamic country, there are many with Muslims as their majority, but I dont believe there are any true Islamic countries in the world.

the only thing i will disagree with you on is that the religious center, i mean Saudi, is in some way representative of Muslims. It is the home of 2 holy cities, but the Wahabis (saudi religous council) do not speak for anyone but themselves. We just have to be careful of generalizations.

 

[muslimgamer]

Hi sser, I have already answered that question on almost every single page, sorry buddy but I cant keep repeating the same thing on every page, people gots to read.

 

[deus101]

Sorry, iI just couldn't leave this one thing alone.
Dear muslim gamer, You yourself should try to find out why a lot of the stars are called what are they called today and all that algebra stuff. When You really look at the history, you'll realise that at the time muslim world was the cenre of human enlightement precisely because it wasn't as hard on the religious dogma bullshit as Europe was with their papal dark ages back then. And do You know why everything changed since and algebra/star names is the only truly groundbraking scientific thing that's left? That's right - religious morons hijacked the whole thing and stoned back the muslim world to dark ages. Mostly by banning books that they felt was offending their religion.
And that is also a major reason why most of the muslim world is still knee deep in camel shit up to this day. Your religious centre is in a country where women are being lashed for driving cars ffs.

I agree
But i think the mongols and 500 years of shoddy Turkish admninistrations did most of the work and set the course for more and more dogmatic religious practises.

You have to remember that throughout history philosopical and scientific(in a pseudo sense) endevours were done so by religious institutions and though, even back to the Greeks it was loaded with mystiscim and metaphysics nonsens that involved their pantheon.

Most of the studying and transcribing was done at madrassas, and most Polymaths of that era were theologians as well.

Philosophy and logical have gone through hops of the one spiritual notions to the other.

Same thing in Europe who kept the books and knowledge? Monks...who built the first univerities?
The Church.

However thats as apologetic i can get towards religion, we got better alternatives since the Enlighment era.

 

[sser]

Hi sser, I have already answered that question on almost every single page, sorry buddy but I cant keep repeating the same thing on every page, people gots to read.

You have answered nothing, though. The most relevant thing said from you was that the book shared a "resemblance". Is a "resemblance" enough to title a representation of a book the Quran? Again, you are simply looking to be offended. You don't even know what you are being offended about. The book could be anything! It could be a pornographic inspiration that resembles a Quran, but the former detail does not disappear. You obviously have no idea one way or another, so your first reaction is to complain.

 

[muslimgamer]

Hi sser, I have already answered that question on almost every single page, sorry buddy but I cant keep repeating the same thing on every page, people gots to read.

You have answered nothing, though. The most relevant thing said from you was that the book shared a "resemblance". Is a "resemblance" enough to title a representation of a book the Quran? Again, you are simply looking to be offended. You don't even know what you are being offended about. The book could be anything! It could be a pornographic inspiration that resembles a Quran, but the former detail does not disappear. You obviously have no idea one way or another, so your first reaction is to complain.

why must you make this so painful for me i feel sympathy for you so i will assist by making a few points and then im off again.

On SEVERAL posts i have said, and ill say it again, so anyone asking any of these questions, i just wont answer anymore.

AGREED it is not known if it is or isnt the Quran
YES I think there is a resemblance to the Quran
NO there is NOTHING i CAN or WOULD do if it stays in the game - I DEAL with it, that's it.
YES I believe I have the right to say I would PREFER it wasn't there
YES you have the right to say you prefer IT STAYS
YES I would PREFER that games and religion be separated -
YES I wanted to ask 2 questions with the article.
"do you think religious icons\symbols that are used in this world should not be included in a game or kept?"
"Would your game play change if the texture was changed, if so how?"
YES I believe everyone is entitled to their OPINION - so keeping it there and adding more dirt on top should be equal to wanting it removed, both sides should be allowed to voice their opinion.

hope that makes it easy for everyone to post while im gone for a while. My flame suit is low, Gordon is waiting for me.

 

[deus101]

Anyway, if we can let to rest the discussion about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and go back to topic.

Hi! The article is from my site so i decided to don my flame suit on and im now ready to take your abuse and answer questions

The only request i have is that you read the article before asking something.

Thanks.

OH! A MUSLIM CAN WE KEEP HIM?! PLZ PPLZ PLZ!


AAAANYwhoo.


This is complete nonsense, the arabesque decor has never been used on the Qruan alone, nor by arabs alone since the 15 century.

To decide that it must be the quran is just plain silly, its like looking for sexual innuendos in my little pony FIM, and then decide that it was intentional.

Look:

holy book

holy book

holy book

holy book

holy book

holy book

Arabic poems

1800 western book

another western book.



AND offcourse...the Necronomicon...by Abdul Alhazred

(sorry couldnt find picture of the front)




Anyway....the art style is over a 1000 years old...it has spread, and when texture artist searches for motifs and syles to use when trying to recreate old tomes, they were BOUND to find this style.


You are looking at correalations and patterns that doesent exist, kinda like finding holy mary in a piece of toast.

Agreed, i could be seeing something that you dont. But does it mean I cant voice my opinion?

OH you can! you can voice your opinion.

But here is an experiment to for you.

Go to the main RPG discussion board.

And make a small thread explaining why your favorite RPG is a good RPG.
If you got balls you can pick final fantasy



Take in the experience, first thing you must learn about RPGcodex, there is no such thing as "just an opinion"

We are truthseekers here on codex

 

[J1M]

I notice that you reproduced the Diablo III images on your website, muslimgamer. The ones you claimed were offensive for existing. How come it is ok for you to display them, but not for Blizzard? You should be ashamed of your hypocritical nature and sinfulness.

 

[shihonage]

So, erm... should Christians be up in arms about Diablo games clearly having satanic references?

How about World of Warcraft having an obvious Santa (St. Nicolas) ?

Family Guy should offend both Jews and Christians alike, with that episode with Jesus and Moses carrying machineguns!

What about er, Greeks? Shouldn't they be up in arms about Xena: Warrior Princess raping pretty much every myth imaginable?

How about Stargate SG-1? That thing should set the Egypt aflame! And also, possibly, Buddhists.

Y'know what... someone should make a sci-fi show that uses Islam as a starting point, and makes the same cheese out of it as is being made out of everything else.

You guys are in a desperate need of a reality check.

 

[Serious_Business]

So, erm... should Christians be up in arms about Diablo games clearly having satanic references?

How about World of Warcraft having an obvious Santa (St. Nicolas) ?

Family Guy should offend both Jews and Christians alike, with that episode with Jesus and Moses carrying machineguns!

What about er, Greeks? Shouldn't they be up in arms about Xena: Warrior Princess raping pretty much every myth imaginable?

How about Stargate SG-1? That thing should set the Egypt aflame! And also, possibly, Buddhists.

Y'know what... someone should make a sci-fi show that uses Islam as a starting point, and makes the same cheese out of it as is being made out of everything else.

You guys are in a desperate need of a reality check.

I guess "reality" means "aggressively anti-religious", huh

 

[sser]

I don't actually know what I'm complaining about, but I'm complaining anyway and fending off accusations of insecurity by asking two very blatant framing questions.

I shortened it for you.

 

[shihonage]

I guess "reality" means "aggressively anti-religious", huh

It's time to grow up. If other religions can handle it, then so can yours.

That's what it means.

 

[deus101]

and good night.

 

[Marsal]

Triffic presidence you sat there, what you teach your child and what activities you partake with them must be pre-approved by the "Church of self decleared "rationalists" Orthodox".

Unless the child grows stigmata then there is no justification for this.

So smacking your kid is cool, no one should come between you and your child? A little man-child love is fine, as long as it's in good fun? There are a ton of norms the society (or the state if you want) imposes on individuals, but god FSM forbid someone interferes in some sect/religion.

Actually what you want is a state church, not a bunch of silly free churches with the chance that they go completely fundie.

Works for Norway ...... I just remembered I'm still registered as a protestant :D

Are you even literate? You may think that using drinking as a free pass to writing idiotic shit is clever, but it just makes you a drunk retard. So wanting to tax "churches" and cut state funding = "state church"?

My wisdom is ten time greater when infused with the holy spirit of barley.

My point with the Bosniaks is that they are muslims, yet oddly enough play your silly "clash of the civilisation game"

Most of the shit we see today is extremely contemporary, its not even been 100 years since the decrepid Ottoman empire went to shit, barely 60 years since France and Brittain pulled out, ruled by years of mostly pan-arab dictators playing a popularity game in "who can hate the Israeli's more while giving a toss about the Palestinian"
Then! came the full retard of religious fundamentalist, driven by the Islamic revolution in Iran and some shitty missionaries getting oil money, and pushing a religious idenity developed because they wanted to be edgy and different then the Turks.

Your wisdom may be grater when drunk, but it's not that great in absolute terms. Actually most of what you wrote makes no sense or is not directly relevant to the subject. I am familiar with the recent (and not so recent) history of Islam. I just don't care they are butthurt about some random shit. I'm not advocating purposely trolling them, just not letting them dictate what we do. I'm all for tolerance and mutual respect and peaceful coexistence... Translated from bullshit into succinct, literal law (commandments, if you will): obey our (secular) laws above your laws, our norms before your norms, learn our language, keep your heritage, but gradually integrate into the society and contribute. Is that such a radical position to take? That might sound "harsh", but it's only holding them to standards most people adhere to anyway. When in Rome do as the Romans do or GTFO.

How would you behave in Teheran? Bottle of vodka in one hand, strip of bacon in the other, hefty gold cross around your neck, wearing a T-shirt with Mohammed illustration (the one with the bomb in his turban)? I think some discretion would be a prudent choice. But that's just me. Maybe you could pull it off, drinking with Bosniaks and all...

Let's just leave Bosniaks out of further discussion, because I don't think you know the first thing about the situation there and I don't feel like digressing into pointless history lessons. I wrote a tl;dr post on this and "clash of civilizations" (it's between West and East, East being China and allies, Islam world = not really a civilization anymore + mostly USA's bitch, IMO), but I don't think this is the place nor are you the person to discuss this with.

Its history boy, dont fall on the society decline hysteria bandwagon and create more shitty history.

Breivik did not grow up in a vacuum.

What society decline hysteria? Quote me plz. I think Brevik motives are not what they seem and that he's just jumping on the hate bandwagon, but if anything the massacre was a reaction to all the bullshit Muslims are allowed in Norway. One could say they were throwing pearls before the swines (not familiar with situation, will leave it to the Vikings to comment if needed).

Also nicely illustrates my point about religion. Fanaticism is a dangerous thing, especially when you are taught from childhood that your belief is the only right one and that only members of your religion get to go to heaven (plus there is the constant threat of goin to hell). It can have a profound influence on childs psychology (not an expert, just IMO). Add to that base the fact that the lord of all creation rewards you for killing infidels and you have a problem. Fanatics are easy to manipulate and use for devious ends. There are nuts all over the place, religion just gives them a nudge to act and a great way to justify their actions.

As someone mentioned, you could take Codex (or at least some members) as fanatically devoted to TB RPGs. Would they ever think about killing the infidels that convert their TB RPGs into FPS games, threaten to firebomb Bethesda's building or... Errr... maybe not the best example. Note to self: think of a devious plan and contact Jaesun to assemble a squad of TB templar hitmen.

Ok in regards tot he teach the west. Id recommend finding out why a lot of the stars are called what they are today, check up some stuff on algebra too, you might learn a few things.

I did not say Islamic world NEVER had anything to teach or NEVER HAS taught the West. It has been answered in previous posts. I'll just add that it is a truly sad state of affairs that once leading scientific civilization, situated in prime location for trade, building on great ancient civilizations, with huge potential to be reduced to a bunch of savages, whose only value to the world is oil under the land they live on (and you know how volatile that can be). That's your biggest problem, living in the past. I'm not saying it was (exclusively) your fault. If anything Europe is to blame, as in most cases. Although from my perspective, a job well done (I like my dick non-mutilated and enjoy eating pork among other things). The Native Americans were cool, we could have learned a thing or two from them, but nowadays they are just giving tips about poker

Also, let's not forget that your (former) civilization was based on conquest and ruthless expansion. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

In regards to principle, Im curious as to what principle that is exactly? Is is the right to expressing ones view?

Expressing ones view by threatening to kill people and then killing people? Causing riots because of a drawing? I don't care if it's Mohammed being depicted as a fag being buttfucked by some other prophet while pissing on Quran, you dare to kill someone over that, there should have been a fucking witch hunt for all of those who even remotely condone such acts. Think 1950 and commies in USA. Luckily for Muslims, the Danes are, sadly, docile and civilized people.

By giving in to your (and similar) small, insignificant, trivial, easily rectified and wholly retarded "polite request", we are just giving you more room to grow with your demands. And I think that's not a good course of action. Is your curiosity satisfied?

Do you think that corporate execs really give 2 hoots about you or me? Your a dollar sign just like me, nothing more nothing less.

Actually that's not entirely correct. When they look at you they see a dollar sign, when they look at me they see a small dollar sign with potential to grow, but when they look at a billion and a half of your brothers in faith, they see nothing. They are nothing to them, they are just in the way, potential collateral damage. And that's what should bother you and what you should aim to rectify. And you won't do it by bitching about random, inconsequential shit. Although, I guess it's already too late, so you might as well

 

[Commander Xbox]

shut up you dumb muzzie. u mad i just had a beer?

 

[Cassidy]

This would be like if Ukrainians would demand that Nintendo remove Mario's moustache, because for them it would resemble of a moustache of long departed Comrade, and that their hearts are bleeding seeing a man with a moustache, jumping on goompas, which they would interpret as being a portrait of themselves, and as some Soviet proganda or whatever zaniness they would come up with.

Fixed

 

[Forest Dweller]

On second thought, maybe we should keep this guy. He could provide some good fodder for when we're bored. And it will be interesting to see him interact with Andhaira when he returns.

 

[Sacculina]

I think everyone is kind of missing the point I am trying to make. I didnt make the post on the Blizzard forums. I just wrote an article about it. My question to anyone that read it was
"Should religion and games be kept apart?"

No. Why should they? Religion is part of human experience and culture. Thus it is a free source of inspiration for all art and entertainment - in a liberal, free society. Complaining about liberal, free society means that you don't want to live in a liberal, free society. Maybe Saudi-Arabia or Iran would work out better for the complainers?

As to the actual object of complaint, it's nothing more than some Christian throwing a hissy fit after someone eats a toast that had a burn mark on it. Because of your mental bias, you *want* to see connection and then throw drama about it, like a teenage girl. Since drama is exciting and fun.

It would be different if Blizzard actually made Quran in the game and then had a dog shat on it. I would still argue that they have a right to do so but that's intentionally insulting and I can understand someone getting upset about it. But seeing a vague resemblance over few pixels? Teenage girl hissy fit drama queen.

You know what you're the first one to upset me garfunkel I have been trying so hard to be "civilized" and "rational" this whole thread, trying my hardest to not sound like a hissy fit throwing girl and it seems i failed All i ever wanted to do was answer some questions.

I know you're not going to like this, but I like you. You are one of those that can coherently lay an argument out, get your point across and do it without resorting to the bomb i have been building in my cave (Hi FBI!).

I asked a question, you answered it, and you are entitled to that opinion! All i ever wanted was for my opinion to be counted like yours I mean no harm promise! I just said hey i think games and religion should be separated, what do you think?

Muslimgamer, you keep saying that you should be allowed to voice your own opinion. That's perfectly fine. More than any other site I know, the Codex is (for better or worse) the place to be to fully enjoy freedom of speech on the Internet. But if you say or do something stupid, then you have only yourself to blame for all the scorn and derision the Codex pours on you. This is the internet, FFS. You're naive if you didn't expect a backlash.

Now it seems to me that GarfunkeL has cut to the chase with this statement:

As to the actual object of complaint, it's nothing more than some Christian throwing a hissy fit after someone eats a toast that had a burn mark on it. Because of your mental bias, you *want* to see connection and then throw drama about it, like a teenage girl. Since drama is exciting and fun.

You haven't responded to this, and no, that bit about a teenage drama queen doesn't count. GarfunkeL has pointed out that this is an imagined slight, you have chosen to flaunt it in front of the world and expect to be indulged. Now can you please explain (a) whether it is in fact a deliberate insult; (b) if it isn't, why we should care; and (c) why your every whim and fancy should be catered to so long as there's some vague religious connection involved?

 

[muslimgamer]

Hi Keeper,
I think i have had my run on here now. It seems like the same questions are coming up over and over again and I keep saying the same thing over and over again. It was only a few posts before yours that i listed CLEARLY one by one the what, the why and the who, and here we are again going over the same thing again.

Answer to
a) in the list
b)in the list
c)in the list

Sorry to say guys but as much as i enjoyed the run, the codex has depleted my years supply of anti-troll serum in about 24 hours, im honestly all out.

As much as some of you may think\hope that im some nutcase that wants to ruin western society or that somehow some random off the internet is going to declare a war on video games. Im just another Anon that made a post on some random site and then decided to have some fun "TRYING" to answer some questions. Some of you have put forward some logical sound arguments, others really need to take that 2 week course at your local college "How to Troll 4 REELZ". (ventilatorofdoom, i suggest a different course for you buddy,"Journalism wid PHPBB" with the elective of "Fact checking for noobz")

I have an opinion, i said it, i explained it and that's it. Now ill go to work, ill pay my taxes and Ill spend my evenings doing what i enjoy, playing the best RPG that was ever made and ever will be, Final Fantasy 4 EVA!

If you have never met one of "us", i suggest you do, you might actually think we aren't as bad as you think, just make sure its not a nutcase version. Most of us are just normal randoms like anyone else, there's bad apples but hey, they're everywhere, deal with them how ever you choose. You might think im a nutcase, but atleast im a gamer nutcase . We have different views and outlooks on life, but we all love Mass Effect.

Thanks for the fun, seeyas in Diablo III (as long as they take the resemblance out lulz?)

 

[Sacculina]

So that's it? Most disappointing. At least Andhaa isn't the drive-by type. There's little chance you'll read this, muslimgamer, but there was a point to my questions and I never got to it. Gamers were perfectly content to bear you no animosity before you brought this whole nonsense up. As someone who has Muslim friends, I know for a fact that you do not speak for all who follow your religion. But now you've made it a little worse for them. If you were 'offended' by a chicken tikki masala's insult to your bowels, we'd have given you exactly the amount of attention you deserve; i.e., none. But when you invoke religion, it cannot be an entirely personal thing. It cannot be just your opinion; the actions of one implicate the other ~1499,999,999 Muslims, as you've seen in this thread. This little incident has validated the opinions of those who believe that Muslims as a group are thin-skinned. And it remains to be seen whether this won't be blown out of proportion, resulting in bans and riots in Thirdworldia over yet another supposed insult.

And then you claim innocence in all this; you just wanted to voice your opinion. And I believe you. I don't think you want to instigate something. But that just shows your complete and utter lack of foresight, and how much more you valued your right to be offended (as opposed to, I don't know, just dealing with it and moving on?).

Please learn from this. We have enough stupidity in the world, and plenty of good reasons for justified outrage. Come over to India if you need a fix. But this is not worthy of our attention.

 

[BonziBUDDY]

Muslimgamer, didn't you read my post earlier, it' on page 4. I posted a message from you from our resident Muslim Andhaira. Please read it and respond.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Or what, you bitch and moan when it's your people that are being trash talked, but don't mind posting news articles about it? Again, you can dish it out but can't take it?

Don't know if what I said qualifies as bitching and moaning but if it helps you to pretend it, go ahead.

Nah, I don't like saying stupid shit stereotypes about people. You do, so maybe you should try saying it. Oh wait, that would be saying shit about Germans and not Muslims - can't have that!

Yes your "trash-talking" of germans caused me a lot of grief. A LOT of grief.

 

[Ermm]

Even if there was INTENTIONAL mockery of Islam in a game, a sign of maturity would be NOT to be offended. Look how many games use Satanic symbols, ever heard of a Christian outrage about this?

Agreed, one way of dealing with it is by saying nothing, another is to say hey, just letting you know that it looks kind of similar do you mind changing it?

Yes- Cool! Thanks

No - Ok no problem. Thanks

I really dont see an issue with either of those options. Now if someone goes all derka derka on you for saying no, im with you on it, ill be there posting on some no name blog going what the hell are these people going on about? I just don't see how asking\ letting Blizzard know that there is a resemblance is somehow wanting to take over the world?

Then why did you even posted here?

P.S. And if you're one of the so called editors on your prestigious website, then you are contradicting yourself, because when I scrolled down fast (no, I didn't bothered to read it very much), then I saw you had a problem with Witcher 2 because one of the monsters resembled one of your....... whatever, and you explicitly said that you had no interest into the game, and that it changed when they corrected you horribly offensive textures.

And nobody is trolling you, it's just that you are probably an alt trolling here, is that right?

 

[Forest Dweller]

Okay, if we do keep him, he definitely needs a dumbfuck tag.

 

[Country_Gravy]

Do the scrolls in the game look like the Torah? We better remove scrolls. I hope that none of the books have a plain black cover because I have seen some bibles that look that way, so they better only be on bookshelves, or better yet, on a shrine covered in the holy light of jesus jizz.

Do ALL Qurans look the same? There aren't different styles of covers for the book? That is just strange.

Hi Country_Gravy,
Do they look the same? Nope , there are plenty of different styles.

I guess you could argue asking does a German Sheppard look the same as a poodle?
Are they both Dogs?

Couldn't you then argue that every book in every game could look like a cover of a Quran somewhere? This just doesn't make any sense that a cover of a book in a game that looks somewhat like one of the many covers for your holy book automatically makes it a depiction of your book.

And it is more like arguing that the german sheppard looks a lot like a police dog, but that still doesn't make it a police dog.

Whatever, you probably won't read this and I was having some doubts about if you were really someone from the site, but anyone who would go through the trouble of putting that on their website would have to have a pretty warped sense of reality to see shit that isn't there so that they can feel morally superior.