Diablo IV

[Kem0sabe]

The hatred for level scaling in what is essentially a MMO-lite will always be astounding to me. Why the hell would you want to outlevel content and entire zones? Leveled zones in MMOs have always been fucking stupid and you shouldn't have to choose between playing a dozen alts and playing the content you managed to miss without facerolling everything. Anyways I hit endgame and helltides really make use of the open world. This is way better than mapping in Path of Exile. Dungeons need a lot of work but it's nice having 500 different things to do every login and being able to target farm loot.

The future is now and you ain't a part of it if you're still whining about level scaling. That ship sailed about a decade ago and thank fucking god for that. Seethe grandpas.

Even if you accept level scaling, which is fucking retarded and completely warps power progression, the itemisation is straight up D3. Completely uninspiring stat stick. I can’t see a shred of innovation or creativity. D2 which was made more than two decades ago with no competing ARPGs to compare with had better ideas.

I'm playing through D2 resurrected and it's boring as fuck, the itemization, especially, is nothing special, at least in the campaign.

It plays extremely slow, the quests are forgettable and are only 6(?) per chapter, the inventory is extremely limited, you spend most of your time portal to camp, sell shit, portal back.

Graphics and music are the high point, but otherwise it's antiquated game design that was abandoned long ago.

 

[Saravan]

The hatred for level scaling in what is essentially a MMO-lite will always be astounding to me. Why the hell would you want to outlevel content and entire zones? Leveled zones in MMOs have always been fucking stupid and you shouldn't have to choose between playing a dozen alts and playing the content you managed to miss without facerolling everything. Anyways I hit endgame and helltides really make use of the open world. This is way better than mapping in Path of Exile. Dungeons need a lot of work but it's nice having 500 different things to do every login and being able to target farm loot.

The future is now and you ain't a part of it if you're still whining about level scaling. That ship sailed about a decade ago and thank fucking god for that. Seethe grandpas.

Even if you accept level scaling, which is fucking retarded and completely warps power progression, the itemisation is straight up D3. Completely uninspiring stat stick. I can’t see a shred of innovation or creativity. D2 which was made more than two decades ago with no competing ARPGs to compare with had better ideas.

I'm playing through D2 resurrected and it's boring as fuck, the itemization, especially, is nothing special, at least in the campaign.

It plays extremely slow, the quests are forgettable and are only 6(?) per chapter, the inventory is extremely limited, you spend most of your time portal to camp, sell shit, portal back.

Graphics and music are the high point, but otherwise it's antiquated game design that was abandoned long ago.

It has set items, class items, build-enabling uniques like werewolf barb and runewords. It also includes stat depth such as faster hit recovery, faster cast rate, accuracy, block rate, open wounds, powerful blows etc. that aren’t just straight up more damage.

It’s definitely not perfect but the point is it was made a long time ago and the standard should be set much higher than what D4 brings to the table, especially so now that you have competing ARPGs like Grim Dawn, PoE and Last Epoch. The itemisation in D4 really is abysmal.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm playing through D2 resurrected and it's boring as fuck, the itemization, especially, is nothing special, at least in the campaign.

It plays extremely slow, the quests are forgettable and are only 6(?) per chapter, the inventory is extremely limited, you spend most of your time portal to camp, sell shit, portal back.

Graphics and music are the high point, but otherwise it's antiquated game design that was abandoned long ago.

Those are the least of its problems. The biggest ones are runewords, lack of endgame outside of Baal runs and maybe synergies but YMMV on that. I have no idea how people play it for so long.

 

[Perkel]

D4 brings to the table, especially so now that you have competing ARPGs like Grim Dawn, PoE and Last Epoch. The itemisation in D4 really is abysmal.

Do you play D4 ? I mean you can't say that without knowing inside out D4 itemization. When I started playing D4 itemization of affixes was weak but now at lvl 50+ they start to matter, idk how it will be in high end game.

Good example of that are glyphs. I didn't do nightmare dungeons because i thought those were only just harder dungeons but turns out that glyphs you input into paragon tree have levels and they way to level them is to do those nightmare dungeons. On some glyphs there are like lvl 15 reqs for increased glyph reach on board.

Moreover in occultist there are still two grayed out tabs that do something I am yet to unlock.

 

[Saravan]

D4 brings to the table, especially so now that you have competing ARPGs like Grim Dawn, PoE and Last Epoch. The itemisation in D4 really is abysmal.

Do you play D4 ?

No just the beta server slam, I didn’t buy it after.

 

[Perkel]

Technical aspects of D4, bugs etc.:

Early access comes to an end today. 100% servers will fry up in few hours where masses will start to play.
As far as my experience in it It didn't have any server issues and queues didn't exist at all. Never got DC either. Just some small bugs like not being able to use any skill at some point for short while until i relogged but this one seems to be common for people.

Didn't see much phantom wall issues i had in beta where my character stopped before some invisible wall dividing region parts.

No just the beta server slam, I didn’t buy it after.

I played beta before that (not server slam) but it was mostly the same build. Back then I also thought itemization aka affixes was weak part of game. But like i mentioned above around lvl 50 those affixes start to matter as higher level gear starts to have wider differences between bad and good roll.

Game for $30 should be a steal. I still don't know if it is worth proper $60. ARPG bar is very high. So far it is on path to be worth it.
For now only rings and amulets have weak affixes for me. But body armor and weapons etc. they started to matter a lot to point where I actively look for new bases among rares.

 

[ArchAngel]

Personally best part of D4 was build enabling legendaries that you can also find at low levels. Neither D2 or PoE has that and I always wanted that.

 

[Kjaska]

 

[Seethe]

I'm playing through D2 resurrected and it's boring as fuck, the itemization, especially, is nothing special, at least in the campaign.

It plays extremely slow, the quests are forgettable and are only 6(?) per chapter, the inventory is extremely limited, you spend most of your time portal to camp, sell shit, portal back.

Graphics and music are the high point, but otherwise it's antiquated game design that was abandoned long ago.

Those are the least of its problems. The biggest ones are runewords, lack of endgame outside of Baal runs and maybe synergies but YMMV on that. I have no idea how people play it for so long.

It's not bloated dogshit like PoE where you're forced into trading if you want viable builds, if that's what you're suggesting. I swear, only PoE enthusiasts say this shit and talk about "muh endgame" and how "it's too slow" because their brain damage has adapted to one shotting the entire screen in the fraction of a second, and so the only challenge left in that game is to get one shot by something off screen. It's either that or your build isn't viable and you die all the time, because yes PoE has a lot of shit that won't work despite its build "diversity". How are "runewords" a problem? You didn't explain it.

People play it for so long because the itemization is excellent and makes the runs fresh. The normal enemies are different, and FEEL different. They're not just a horde that fill up the screen to the brim. Getting lucky and picking up a white wand in the first act can end up so good, it can carry you til Hell difficulty. Congratulations, you've beaten all difficulties! The point is now to create a new character and make a new build. Who would've thought?

 

[Perkel]

Runewords are a problem in D2 because they pidgeon hole you into them. Runewords are just straight up better than rest of items from the moment they show up up until very late end game. I remember D2 before it had runewords and it was much better game.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm playing through D2 resurrected and it's boring as fuck, the itemization, especially, is nothing special, at least in the campaign.

It plays extremely slow, the quests are forgettable and are only 6(?) per chapter, the inventory is extremely limited, you spend most of your time portal to camp, sell shit, portal back.

Graphics and music are the high point, but otherwise it's antiquated game design that was abandoned long ago.

Those are the least of its problems. The biggest ones are runewords, lack of endgame outside of Baal runs and maybe synergies but YMMV on that. I have no idea how people play it for so long.

It's not bloated dogshit like PoE where you're forced into trading if you want viable builds, if that's what you're suggesting. I swear, only PoE enthusiasts say this shit and talk about "muh endgame" and how "it's too slow" because their brain damage has adapted to one shotting the entire screen in the fraction of a second, and so the only challenge left in that game is to get one shot by something off screen. It's either that or your build isn't viable and you die all the time, because yes PoE has a lot of shit that won't work despite its build "diversity". How are "runewords" a problem? You didn't explain it.

People play it for so long because the itemization is excellent and makes the runs fresh. The normal enemies are different, and FEEL different. They're not just a horde that fill up the screen to the brim. Getting lucky and picking up a white wand in the first act can end up so good, it can carry you til Hell difficulty. Congratulations, you've beaten all difficulties! The point is now to create a new character and make a new build. Who would've thought?

PoE is shit lol. I'm thinking of actually good games, like Grim Dawn.

 

[Saravan]

I'm playing through D2 resurrected and it's boring as fuck, the itemization, especially, is nothing special, at least in the campaign.

It plays extremely slow, the quests are forgettable and are only 6(?) per chapter, the inventory is extremely limited, you spend most of your time portal to camp, sell shit, portal back.

Graphics and music are the high point, but otherwise it's antiquated game design that was abandoned long ago.

Those are the least of its problems. The biggest ones are runewords, lack of endgame outside of Baal runs and maybe synergies but YMMV on that. I have no idea how people play it for so long.

It's not bloated dogshit like PoE where you're forced into trading if you want viable builds, if that's what you're suggesting. I swear, only PoE enthusiasts say this shit and talk about "muh endgame" and how "it's too slow" because their brain damage has adapted to one shotting the entire screen in the fraction of a second, and so the only challenge left in that game is to get one shot by something off screen. It's either that or your build isn't viable and you die all the time, because yes PoE has a lot of shit that won't work despite its build "diversity". How are "runewords" a problem? You didn't explain it.

People play it for so long because the itemization is excellent and makes the runs fresh. The normal enemies are different, and FEEL different. They're not just a horde that fill up the screen to the brim. Getting lucky and picking up a white wand in the first act can end up so good, it can carry you til Hell difficulty. Congratulations, you've beaten all difficulties! The point is now to create a new character and make a new build. Who would've thought?

Runewords are a problem in the sense that certain ones like enigma were made so powerful that it effectively pushed all other options away. However, there was no issue at all with the concept of runewords. It was just another type of item on top of set items, uniques and class specifics. This is the problem with this discussion. They are hyperfocused on the flaws of D2, a game made over two decades ago (I can't stress this enough), and use it as an argument for what exactly? Even more streamlined shit like D4?

 

[Perkel]

Now that someone mentioned Grim Dawn. D4 feels a lot like GD. Same type of campaign and structure. Though GD is far more linear in its design (those who played know what I am talking about). Using word to convey end game is also very similar as GD features those dungeons with keys and some other smaller stuff as end game that pretty much are dungeons in D4. At least for updated base game.

 

[ArchAngel]

I'm playing through D2 resurrected and it's boring as fuck, the itemization, especially, is nothing special, at least in the campaign.

It plays extremely slow, the quests are forgettable and are only 6(?) per chapter, the inventory is extremely limited, you spend most of your time portal to camp, sell shit, portal back.

Graphics and music are the high point, but otherwise it's antiquated game design that was abandoned long ago.

Those are the least of its problems. The biggest ones are runewords, lack of endgame outside of Baal runs and maybe synergies but YMMV on that. I have no idea how people play it for so long.

It's not bloated dogshit like PoE where you're forced into trading if you want viable builds, if that's what you're suggesting. I swear, only PoE enthusiasts say this shit and talk about "muh endgame" and how "it's too slow" because their brain damage has adapted to one shotting the entire screen in the fraction of a second, and so the only challenge left in that game is to get one shot by something off screen. It's either that or your build isn't viable and you die all the time, because yes PoE has a lot of shit that won't work despite its build "diversity". How are "runewords" a problem? You didn't explain it.

People play it for so long because the itemization is excellent and makes the runs fresh. The normal enemies are different, and FEEL different. They're not just a horde that fill up the screen to the brim. Getting lucky and picking up a white wand in the first act can end up so good, it can carry you til Hell difficulty. Congratulations, you've beaten all difficulties! The point is now to create a new character and make a new build. Who would've thought?

PoE is shit lol. I'm thinking of actually good games, like Grim Dawn.

Grim Dawn is not a good game. It is just average aRPG.

 

[Seethe]

I'm playing through D2 resurrected and it's boring as fuck, the itemization, especially, is nothing special, at least in the campaign.

It plays extremely slow, the quests are forgettable and are only 6(?) per chapter, the inventory is extremely limited, you spend most of your time portal to camp, sell shit, portal back.

Graphics and music are the high point, but otherwise it's antiquated game design that was abandoned long ago.

Those are the least of its problems. The biggest ones are runewords, lack of endgame outside of Baal runs and maybe synergies but YMMV on that. I have no idea how people play it for so long.

It's not bloated dogshit like PoE where you're forced into trading if you want viable builds, if that's what you're suggesting. I swear, only PoE enthusiasts say this shit and talk about "muh endgame" and how "it's too slow" because their brain damage has adapted to one shotting the entire screen in the fraction of a second, and so the only challenge left in that game is to get one shot by something off screen. It's either that or your build isn't viable and you die all the time, because yes PoE has a lot of shit that won't work despite its build "diversity". How are "runewords" a problem? You didn't explain it.

People play it for so long because the itemization is excellent and makes the runs fresh. The normal enemies are different, and FEEL different. They're not just a horde that fill up the screen to the brim. Getting lucky and picking up a white wand in the first act can end up so good, it can carry you til Hell difficulty. Congratulations, you've beaten all difficulties! The point is now to create a new character and make a new build. Who would've thought?

PoE is shit lol. I'm thinking of actually good games, like Grim Dawn.

Can't disagree with you there, Grim Dawn is top tier. But Grim Dawn doesn't have an "end game" either.

 

[luj1]

Someone actually thought this was gonna be good?

oh yeah Perkel lol

 

[luj1]

Grim Dawn is not a good game. It is just average aRPG.

and what, Path of exile is better?

Grim Dawn is not exceptional in any way, but at least you can focus on playing the game instead of endless trading and grinding

 

[Lacrymas]

Can't disagree with you there, Grim Dawn is top tier. But Grim Dawn doesn't have an "end game" either.

It has the Crucible, Shattered Realm and Roguelike dungeons.

 

[luj1]

D4 scalling is not the worst one but definitely isn't a plus. It's detriment to pretty good game overall.

ahahah

isometric MMO #231

 

[ArchAngel]

Grim Dawn is not a good game. It is just average aRPG.

and what, Path of exile is better?

Grim Dawn is not exceptional in any way, but at least you can focus on playing the game instead of endless trading and grinding

Neither are exceptional games atm. Both had potential at start that they never fulfilled. GD just become same or worse with each new act and POE got bloated with shit and decided to abandon slower tactical gameplay of D2 and catered to zoom zoom retards.

 

[Perkel]

It has the Crucible, Shattered Realm and Roguelike dungeons.

Just dungeons, there isn't really anything rogue about them. imho out of those 3 those dungeons are the best. Both crucible and Shattered realm are boring af.

 

[luj1]

POE got bloated with shit and decided to abandon slower tactical gameplay of D2

... which it never had lol

 

[ArchAngel]

POE got bloated with shit and decided to abandon slower tactical gameplay of D2

... which it never had lol

It had it during closed beta and some time after it. Then it become more zoom zoom with each content patch.

 

[luj1]

Which is worthless

What you dont realise is that every Diablo-like is nothing like Diablo

Path of Exile, Grim Dawn, Van Helsing, Wolcen, Lost Ark all look and play the same

They feel like MMOs while Diablo was a methodical, slower-pace dungeon crawler

The only games which fit this bill are,

- Diablo 1
- Diablo II Classic on Hardcore, without running
- Harbinger (sci fi Diablo clone)

 

[ArchAngel]

Which is worthless

What you dont realise is that every Diablo-like is nothing like Diablo

Path of Exile, Grim Dawn, Van Helsing, Wolcen, Lost Ark all look and play the same

They feel like MMOs while Diablo was a methodical, slower-pace dungeon crawler

The only games which fit this bill are,

- Diablo 1
- Diablo II Classic on Hardcore, without running
- Harbinger (sci fi Diablo clone)

I have played both D1 and D2 at release and I have played D2:LoD, I do not understand what is so much different between D2C and LoD. Also I do not understand why you hate running. Enemies in D2 are also very fast, often faster than you even with running. I am playing D2R a lot now and they chase me down often and I need to spam potions and run away with TP :D