Diablo IV

[KIss My Ass]

No, you've done no explaining, only ad hominem attacks.

Your argument is that at lvl 25 you've seen everything the game has to offer. That is what YOU said. You don't unlock the paragon board until lvl 50. You don't even have the full skill tree unlocked at 25. At lvl 25 you are still in the peeing while sitting down phase. You're a dipshit and I'm putting you on ignore.

 

[Zeriel]

Yes, take your ball and run away crying.

 

[abija]

At level 25 you've seen everything non numerical the game has to offer at this point. Or more precisely, everything good the game has to offer.
Paragons/extra points in tree just offer numerical changes. Yes some builds become possible etc, but it's not hard to extrapolate.

LE: My bad, there's echo of lilith and very high nightmare dungeons but I doubt many people will actually get to those. You've still seen everything your char can do.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Honestly before talking about difficulty you should state what Tier you're playing on.

 

[KIss My Ass]

SDG where's the clip of you doing Cathedral of Light?

I actually intended to upload that but it was over an hour long and there were long periods of me being away from the game. It would have been a boring upload.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

At level 25 you've seen everything non numerical the game has to offer at this point.

There are rare aspects that are item-only that can still change up skills, e.g. there is a rogue aspect that makes Rapid-fire ricochet making it viable for AoE. It's not a huge shift but it does contradict this statement.

I guess the complaint following this that I find puzzling is, what did you expect? I would agree you level too fast, I'm barely through act 2 and I'm level 35--I recall in D2 you were lucky to hit 30 by end game. But are you expecting the game to keep providing new skills all the way to level 99? And stay balanced? How many games are designed that way? I think in almost any RPG your character powers mostly unlock and are solidified after the midgame at the latest. D2 certainly didn't have paragon levels or any goofy stuff like that, and the postgame was largely about keeping your defenses up and finding enough mana leech to spam your one skill the whole game. D4 is also vastly deeper than the puddle of D3, anyone saying otherwise is just trolling.

 

[Reinhardt]

There are rare aspects that are item-only that can still change up skills, e.g. there is a rogue aspect that makes Rapid-fire ricochet making it viable for AoE. It's not a huge shift but it does contradict this statement.

tho with beta throwing orange items like candies average beta player probably experienced more build options than someone like sdg, even at lvl 25.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

D4 has the better production standard and art direction (not hard to beat PoE in those)

It's worse in everything else

Even art direction is better, some good shit if you take a little time to actually look at enemies/doodads, has a certain honesty/grit to it.

 

[abija]

...
I guess the complaint following this that I find puzzling is, what did you expect?
...

Not sure you actually followed the discussion.

 

[spectre]

There are rare aspects that are item-only that can still change up skills, e.g. there is a rogue aspect that makes Rapid-fire ricochet making it viable for AoE. It's not a huge shift but it does contradict this statement.

There are even better examples when you look at the druid, certains aspects really turn some of the skills around.
Just to give a few examples, off the top of my head:
Dire Wolf's Aspect - Grizzly Rage now turns you into a Greater Werewolf (instead of a werebear) - a skill one probably wouldn't even consider in any way part of a werewolf build can now become a centerpiece.
Aspect of Metamorphic Stone - Boulder is now a Core skill, which fundamentally changes its operation (spirit cost vs. cooldown), it also means it now synergizes with other stuff:
e.g. Aspect of Retaliation (+% damage to core skills based on amount of fortify), or that other aspect that makes basic skills power up core skills, or that legendary ring that works on core skills.

IMO, this already showcases that they can easily add depth to the system if they need/want to (skill synergies operate on tags which can be manipulated like this),
but will they actually? Fuck knows. This is Blizzard, they are able to screw things up in mysterious ways.

I could agree with the general sentiment that D4's skill tree doesn't make a particularly great first impression, only a few skills, some offering better dps up front,
then a single binary choice that doesn't really seem that difficult to make, and then you get all these dinky +1% to this and +5% to that you see on various passives,
but it does come together as something that's more than a sum of its parts - but needs to be put in a context of playing the game way past 25 levels.
It's a weird hill to die on anyway. In all the games in the genre there comes a point where you've basically "seen it all,"
but here it only "gets there" after world tier III and once you slog past the main campaign (I was not a fan).

So yeah, saying you played the server slams means you barely got the tip in. Granted, the thing isn't particularly lengthy, but still just the tip.

 

[Fedora Master]

SDG where's the clip of you doing Cathedral of Light?

I actually intended to upload that but it was over an hour long and there were long periods of me being away from the game. It would have been a boring upload.

You know you can edit videos, right?

 

[NecroLord]

Kotaku should hire you SDG.

 

[luj1]

D4 has the better production standard and art direction (not hard to beat PoE in those)

It's worse in everything else

Even art direction is better, some good shit if you take a little time to actually look at enemies/doodads, has a certain honesty/grit to it.

What? PoE?

I played PoE for years, it has really shitty enemy design. You are attacked by curtains and chandeliers and monkeys

 

[Peachcurl]

SDG

Can you post a concise list of reasons why this game is the GOTY candidate?

So far I remember:

• Good horse riding.

 

[Skinwalker]

Another thing about Diablo clones, is that they're pretty much always ugly/cheap-looking in one way or another. You'd think isometric perspective would make it easier to design a neat-looking world and creatures, but there's always something severely lacking or overcompensating about them.

 

[Zeriel]

At level 25 you've seen everything non numerical the game has to offer at this point.

There are rare aspects that are item-only that can still change up skills, e.g. there is a rogue aspect that makes Rapid-fire ricochet making it viable for AoE. It's not a huge shift but it does contradict this statement.

I guess the complaint following this that I find puzzling is, what did you expect? I would agree you level too fast, I'm barely through act 2 and I'm level 35--I recall in D2 you were lucky to hit 30 by end game. But are you expecting the game to keep providing new skills all the way to level 99? And stay balanced? How many games are designed that way? I think in almost any RPG your character powers mostly unlock and are solidified after the midgame at the latest. D2 certainly didn't have paragon levels or any goofy stuff like that, and the postgame was largely about keeping your defenses up and finding enough mana leech to spam your one skill the whole game. D4 is also vastly deeper than the puddle of D3, anyone saying otherwise is just trolling.

I reject the notion it's common for games like this. It isn't the case in D3. They distribute skills all the way up to level cap. At level cap is where it got boring, before they added a ton of stuff with patches. Path of Exile is definitely not that way. Neither is Grim Dawn. PoE distributes new skills through newer difficulties up to a point, and Grim Dawn's skill system means every skill point in the passive tree can potentially be allocated to new skills from different classes, etc. It's just very strange how they did it in D4, where you hit halfway through the pre-end-game level cap and suddenly all the introductions of new skills/abilities/gameplay flourishes just... stop. Hence why I said it feels like an unfinished game that got thrown out to meet a quarter target.

As far as the legendaries... I do think that is much more subjective and up to opinions. Personally it has been my opinion so far with rogue that almost all of the desirable aspects were either found in the leveling process (before end game) or were aspects. Now that may be down to build--that my build just doesn't find much use for a lot of the legendaries that are interesting. I did mention one I didn't use that I found a good example of a good legendary that the rest should be like, rather than just % stat boosts and conditionals. That was the poison trap cooldown one.

If I was to do a big writeup on the game I would compliment the parts I think are good ideas/done well. There are some bright spots. Like, the paragon board divorced from the fact the game has an awful skill system/skill variety is good. As an endgame stat bonus thing it's more compelling than the previous version of paragon to be sure. It's cool it can be rotated and has that tactile function where you can choose how you path down it, and the ability to add more through seasons/expansions is good. It just isn't nearly enough to rescue the anemic skill system on its own. Likewise, I do think it is possible for them to rescue the game through live service content. The question is whether they will. And they certainly will have less pressure to do so if the fanbase is blowing smoke up their ass about how the game is basically close to perfect and all they need to do is add more monsters and items.

 

[KIss My Ass]

SDG

Can you post a concise list of reasons why this game is the GOTY candidate?

So far I remember:

• Good horse riding.

Because Zelda TotK isn't eligible for GOTY on here.

I also gave a review of the campaign and why I liked it. I can't give a full rundown until I see what the endgame is like, how the seasons work, and get some time in with other characters.

 

[Filthy Sauce]

I beat the campaign last night. World tier 2 electro/frost sorceress. No problems, difficulty wise. Ironically the xp reward I got after end credits put me at level 50, so I got to look at the paragon thing. I've never played an arpg enough to mess around with such a system. Didn't look interesting, so I'm trying a new character.

Random thoughts

-There's too much walking. They should have given the horse first act.

-i saw a black female (?) druid player named Whoopi. I tried asking her about the sister act movies but my game locked up. She was gone by the time i logged back in.

-i have a battle pass because I pre-ordered (for EA). Even after reading multiple descriptions online, I still don't know what it is.

- Apparently new accounts for d4 start with with a few rare crafting resources, allowing you to use aspects. I wasted them all early game because I didn't know they were limited. I stopped collecting the aspects because of this- only did probably 4 side dungeons. They were boring anyway.

-Story is lost potential. Cutscenes are geat. Lilith has a presence of a cenobite from hellraiser. Unfortunately the plot and characters are dull. Ultima 7 did this type of story better (that's not saying a lot).

- Surprise boss towards end game was the highlight for me. It's out of nowhere. I like how after victory your character makes a comment like 'who was that? Oh well.'

- I am a retarded bitch

 

[Zlaja]

Viable is doing WT4 NMD at least into tier +30 (approx. lvl 70-80) you are going to struggle with those builds

I don't think you really have to spend THAT much time with nightmare dungeons to get the full experience of the game and have proper fun in the endgame. Plenty of stuff to do overall.

By level 25 you have all of your skill slots and have unlocked access to every major ability your class has. Only exceptions off the top of my head are some specializations, which aren't much

You should have expressed yourself like this from the get-go, rather than saying "you've seen everything the game has to offer at LV.25", which sounds retarded because the game exerience gets elevated a lot once you're done with the campaign, hit LV.50 and switch to tier 3.

 

[Zeriel]

Viable is doing WT4 NMD at least into tier +30 (approx. lvl 70-80) you are going to struggle with those builds

I don't think you really have to spend THAT much time with nightmare dungeons to get the full experience of the game and have proper fun in the endgame. Plenty of stuff to do overall.

By level 25 you have all of your skill slots and have unlocked access to every major ability your class has. Only exceptions off the top of my head are some specializations, which aren't much

You should have expressed yourself like this from the get-go, rather than saying "you've seen everything the game has to offer at LV.25", which sounds retarded because the game exerience gets elevated a lot once you're done with the campaign, hit LV.50 and switch to tier 3.

I actually did, it was the context of sequential posts. Not my fault people just want to misrepresent it.

Personally I don't see how much changes at all in endgame other than higher numbers. In his way it reminds me of Wolcen on launch. It gets repetitive real quick, and there is no real "challenge" here unlike D3 launch Inferno which you could at least say had an intentional wall of numbers in the way to provide said challenge. It's fine if you disagree in terms of the subjective experience being fun for you, but objectively that's what it is, a treadmill with no qualitative differences, just +X to item levels and monster levels.

I understand some people find that to be enough, but I'm one of those people who find GRs boring and lame on their own account for the same reason. What made RoS or D3 endgame after patches decent was not GR for me, but the other stuff it had on offer.

 

[KIss My Ass]

Lilith has a presence of a cenobite from hellraiser. Unfortunately the plot and characters are dull.

That's an interesting comparison. Lilith was a surprisingly cool villain. Morally ambiguous and her motifs are shrouded in mystery even to the very end. Easily the best Diablo villain, but that's not a very high bar. Most of them just say "RAWR" and make various other monster noises.

They also made Mephisto into a cool character.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

In PoE you definitely hit all your skills before the halfway point, the "challenge" is getting all your items with the exact number and type of gem slots, which is also the point where I lose all interest in the game. Not to mention the meta all involves spamming one skill endlessly, forever.

In Grim Dawn I just maxed out my LMB attack and facerolled the entire game, at no point experiencing anything close to a challenge. It was a relaxing way to unwind after work, but deep and complex, not so much.

 

[Skinwalker]

Should I be doing all the side-quests I come across, or will that leave me overleveled for the main campaign? Is it even possible to get overleveled in a game where everything is the same level as you?

I am sensing some Oblivion-esque shenanigans where leveling up actually makes the game harder... although it might be because I'm not really following any specific "build" for my Rogue.

 

[Zlaja]

Should I be doing all the side-quests I come across, or will that leave me overleveled for the main campaign? Is it even possible to get overleveled in a game where everything is the same level as you?

Avoid most sidequests and get the main campaign over with asap. Even if that's not how you usually like to play. By the time you hit Lv.50 the campaign should preferably be finished.

Do most sidequests and dungeons on tier 3. Only get the most important aspects while still on tier 1 or 2.

 

[Skinwalker]

I'm already level 32... R.I.P.