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Divinity Divinity: Original Sin 2 - Definitive Edition

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
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15,856
Pathfinder: Kingmaker
There's nothing that fixes this mess, but I used the saving throws. No idea about the other thing.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Even with armor-based saving throws, removed bloat, less experience gain, initiative-based turn order, and what have you, the biggest problem still remains and is an issue in almost every encounter - the split between the two armors. It's very easy to bring an enemy down to very few hit points but not have any character left to do the type of damage required, so you waste that character's turn by doing damage to the wrong armor type while the mob is still alive the next round. This forces you to have both damage types on all characters, so they start feeling samey. With the fixes I mentioned, it is definitely playable, but the worst design decision still niggles at you constantly.
 

Ismaul

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It's very easy to bring an enemy down to very few hit points but not have any character left to do the type of damage required, so you waste that character's turn by doing damage to the wrong armor type while the mob is still alive the next round.
Another case of needing to git gud.

It's an epidemic.


This forces you to have both damage types on all characters, so they start feeling samey.
It would feel so much less samey if there was just one type of armor like you want, right?
 

Iskramor

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It's very easy to bring an enemy down to very few hit points but not have any character left to do the type of damage required, so you waste that character's turn by doing damage to the wrong armor type while the mob is still alive the next round.
Another case of needing to git gud.

It's an epidemic.


This forces you to have both damage types on all characters, so they start feeling samey.
It would feel so much less samey if there was just one type of armor like you want, right?
Low effort trolling even by your standards.
 

Ismaul

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Low effort trolling even by your standards.
Except I'm not trolling.

I truly believe the criticism about the armor system is overblown, it greatly improves the gameplay compared to DOS the first, and I have argued so in this thread and others when I'm not bored with this one-sided debate. The addition of armor and the new initiative system, while not without flaws, do what they were meant to do: prevent you from stacking initiative to act first and disabling the enemies' ability to even act by applying elemental effects to them before their first turn. It also pushes you to diversify your builds, and find synergies between your characters. I could go on.

I also argued that not knowing how to deal efficient damage, admittedly because the damage formula is nowhere shown to the player, makes people do low damage to armors and feel like it's this huge issue they have to deal with. The solution to that being, obviously, learning how to deal damage efficiently to remove armor. In other words, gitting gud.

Also, the idea that having two types of damage on a character makes them samey is frankly ridiculous. There is much more to a character than its damage type. And reducing the damage types to one by removing the armor system wouldn't in any way fix this supposed sameness.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Kingmaker
All of this could've been avoided by not handing out CC abilities like candy. The armor system is a ridiculous solution that makes matters worse. If they didn't want us to stack initiative in order to always act first, let it be a dice roll which gets modified by our initiative stat.
 

Ismaul

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...not to mention that stacking CC abilities was the single fun thing in otherwise painfully mediocre DOS1.
Yes, but that's not the issue we're talking about. It's the combo of stacking initiative and CC'ing everything before the enemy acts, that basically cancelled the whole gameplay. DOS2 overcompensated, but it was still better than DOS1.
 

Ismaul

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The armor system is a ridiculous solution that makes matters worse.
No, it adds to tactics. You have to choose priority targets to CC and therefore from which to remove armor first. Also, if you want to be optimal, you'll want to attack the weakest armor of the enemy, and therefore use attacks and characters that are better at damaging it.
 

V_K

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Yes, but that's not the issue we're talking about
The issue is that the armor system took away the single fun aspect of DOS while not improving anything else. There's literally zero reason to play it now. If I want a mediocre TB RPG, I'd rather go for Deadfire in TB mode - that one at least has a fun setting.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
Messages
15,856
Pathfinder: Kingmaker
The armor system is a ridiculous solution that makes matters worse.
No, it adds to tactics. You have to choose priority targets to CC and therefore from which to remove armor first.
But that's not how it goes down in practice. When you've stripped the enemy of their armor, you don't CC them in order to focus on someone else, you kill them to permanently remove them from play. There's also the fact you need both kinds of CC on all characters in order to not waste any character's turn by targeting the other armor type. There are much more elegant solutions to this problem and that's what it comes down to, even if the armor system did what it purports to do.
 
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Shrimp

Learned
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
775
Most of the complaints about the combat in DOS2 are about the game's armour system, but something else that I personally didn't like and don't see mentioned as often is how it forcibly arranges the turn order to always switch between you and the enemy.
Fortunately the game doesn't really have an abundance of trash encounters, but it gets very tedious towards the end of combat when you're just cleaning up the remaining enemies yet still have to wait for them to finish their turns. This tied with the set 4 AP (another byproduct of DOS2 streamlining the stat systems from DOS1) means that unless you have abilities and talents like Adrenaline and Executioner (which you most likely will since they're too good not to pick up and there's an abundance of shitty talents that no one ever picks) you'll end up wasting a lot of time in time sink encounters you easily could've cleaned up if you had played the previous game.
 

Iskramor

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Low effort trolling even by your standards.
Except I'm not trolling.

I truly believe the criticism about the armor system is overblown, it greatly improves the gameplay compared to DOS the first, and I have argued so in this thread and others when I'm not bored with this one-sided debate. The addition of armor and the new initiative system, while not without flaws, do what they were meant to do: prevent you from stacking initiative to act first and disabling the enemies' ability to even act by applying elemental effects to them before their first turn. It also pushes you to diversify your builds, and find synergies between your characters. I could go on.

I also argued that not knowing how to deal efficient damage, admittedly because the damage formula is nowhere shown to the player, makes people do low damage to armors and feel like it's this huge issue they have to deal with. The solution to that being, obviously, learning how to deal damage efficiently to remove armor. In other words, gitting gud.

Also, the idea that having two types of damage on a character makes them samey is frankly ridiculous. There is much more to a character than its damage type. And reducing the damage types to one by removing the armor system wouldn't in any way fix this supposed sameness.
You switched bad thing for the worse thing.Now is about muh HUGE dps output....Be it physical or magical...
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
6,279
Location
Kelethin
The armor system is a sledgehammer to crack a nut and removes the only bit of fun and depth the game had to offer me. Blowing shit up with fire and lightning is only fun for so long. It needs mind control and stuff to keep it interesting but they just ruined it. It's so stupid. But then so are the stupidly overpowered spells that use some dumbass points that you have to run all the way to some well thing to recharge. And so is the autogenerated loot, and taking your characters away from you with no warning, and their inventory. Nobody should be making these sorts of gaming fuck ups in this day and age.

The extreme hand holding tutorial stages that last for hours are getting annoying too.
 

Orud

Learned
Patron
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
325
Strap Yourselves In
I like the magic/physical armor system because it somewhat elevates the pre-emptive buffing that most D&D games have (esp. as you get to higher levels). Combined with it being turn-based it really puts tactical play (how you fight battles) in the plot-light, rather than strategic play (how you prepare for combat).

While I don't mind strategic play, I do think the pendulum swings too hard into that direction with high level D&D. I coincidentally prefer lower to mid level D&D (around level 10-12) a lot more because of it, because it feels more like a tactical system at that point.
 
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