Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

[Infinitron]

Remember when Swen said "No, Roguey, we're not running out of money" and some of you guise actually believed him over me?

You said that in February 2013 before they did the Kickstarter, not when they released the game over a year later, at which point they may indeed have been out of money.

Back in early 2013, they logically could not have been out of money, since the <1 million dollars they got from the Kickstarter were not enough to pay for the entire period until the game's release.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Do we have an ETA on the hardcore patch? Itching for a replay, but waiting for teh patch ><

 

[Abu Antar]

Do we have an ETA on the hardcore patch? Itching for a replay, but waiting for teh patch ><

When they announce the PS4/XBONE versions?

 

[Ovplain]

72 hours into it, with some alt-tabing, exploring Hiberheim. I'm having fun in general, tons of fun, but I've noticed that I more or less don't give a shit about the story. It just seems pretty shallow and uninteresting.

 

[Jasede]

That's Larian for you, can't write for shit. Maybe I'll apply as a writer, TBH. I lived in fantasy worlds all my life, should be easy.

 

[MicoSelva]

That's Larian for you, can't write for shit. Maybe I'll apply as a writer, TBH. I lived in fantasy worlds all my life, should be easy.

Not as easy as it seems. I have applied twice and got nowhere.
Maybe I should not have tried to emulate Larian's style in the samples they requested, or maybe they just rejected me because I am dirty potato, but most probably my writing is just not good enough. Although I am pretty sure I could come up with a better storyline than what Original Sin has - which is not very hard, considering they have done a major rewrite during last year of development, with not much room for iteration.
I am also assuming they have a huge number of new applications and their selection standards are pretty high right now.

 

[Darkzone]

Remember when Swen said "No, Roguey, we're not running out of money" and some of you guise actually believed him over me?

I remember it. But did they run out of money, so that they had to release it, before the electricity company has cut off the supply on current to larian? No. Another loan from the bank and there was no problem. This is why greece is still running, and germany and the rest of europe is making profit from the low euro.

 

[Kem0sabe]

That's Larian for you, can't write for shit. Maybe I'll apply as a writer, TBH. I lived in fantasy worlds all my life, should be easy.

Not as easy as it seems. I have applied twice and got nowhere.
Maybe I should not have tried to emulate Larian's style in the samples they requested, or maybe they just rejected me because I am dirty potato, but most probably my writing is just not good enough. Although I am pretty sure I could come up with a better storyline than what Original Sin has - which is not very hard, considering they have done a major rewrite during last year of development, with not much room for iteration.
I am also assuming they have a huge number of new applications and their selection standards are pretty high right now.

Selection standards?

 

[MicoSelva]

What? Is there a double meaning to that phrase that I am not aware of? I meant strict hiring criteria - they recently expanded quite a bit, AFAIK.

 

[CyberWhale]

If they had any standards at all (when it comes to the writing, of course) we wouldn't have to endure those awful plots their games have.

 

[Kem0sabe]

What? Is there a double meaning to that phrase that I am not aware of? I meant strict hiring criteria - they recently expanded quite a bit, AFAIK.

They have no standards, at least none that non-cocaine addled brains can understand.

 

[MicoSelva]

Ah, see, you are wrong here. Because if that was the case, I would get hired.

 

[clemens]

The fact that a specific candidate didn't get hired doesn't mean anything but, while one may not like the tone and style of Larian's writers, or their setting (not my favourite flavour either, though I loved D:OS despite that), they certainly aren't unskilled or incompetent. They can write dialogues and good descriptive texts, which is not as easy as it may seem. Certainly not as easy as coming up with #undevelopped random plot n°6, as great an idea as it may be...

 

[Darth Roxor]

Ah, see, you are wrong here. Because if that was the case, I would get hired.

yeah

 

[MRY]

My own, rather limited, experience is that because of the huge number of people who (1) are fans of games and (2) think they can write/design games and (3) therefore apply for these jobs, the easiest thing for a company to do is not hire someone with no experience. That is compounded by the fact that game writing is a different art form, and it's very easy to do it wrong. When I was applying (successfully) to Bioware, I'm fairly sure they only looked at me because of my experience with TimeGate and the oddity that I was a law school student. They liked my initial prose writing sample, but I then flunked the initial dialogue writing test. For whatever benevolent reason, they gave me guidance and another try, and I passed that time. (If anyone is curious, I guess I can post portions of the samples I did.) When I failed the test, that was after having spent years writing fantasy (including for games, even including some branching dialogue) and at the peak of my cRPG-playing days. Even still, I screwed up fairly basic stuff because writing branching dialogue is so different from anything else.

This is why I think there's a considerable amount of luck (or unknowable complexity) in the process. There was a cascade effect from my original paid game writing job that led to my having the credentials necessary to get a look, coupled with the entirely unpredictable benefit of being in law school. And there was the good fortune of them giving me a second chance on the writing test, and the double good fortune of them giving me guidance that allowed me to pass the second time.

I am quite confident that MicoSelva or Darth Roxor are more than talented enough to be writers; but without other variables coming into the right constellation, it can be hard for things to work out.

Incidentally, I haven't played D:OS, but I do think that sometimes bad stories (and even apparently bad writing) happen despite good writers -- sometimes you make a bad judgment early on that locks you into a story turns out not to really work, sometimes design constraints prevent a solid execution of the story, sometimes bad VO or bad translation obscures good writing, sometimes the press of deadlines requires settling for less than your best.

 

[MicoSelva]

Incidentally, I haven't played D:OS, but I do think that sometimes bad stories (and even apparently bad writing) happen despite good writers -- sometimes you make a bad judgment early on that locks you into a story turns out not to really work, sometimes design constraints prevent a solid execution of the story, sometimes bad VO or bad translation obscures good writing, sometimes the press of deadlines requires settling for less than your best.

It is always easy to blame the writer, but in the case of D:OS the story was a victim of circumstances and it was never the game's focus. I helped to translate a plot-related KS update for D:OS and the story there was only slightly similar to what ended up in the final game. My guess is they had to do a major re-write after KS to adjust the story to the game and level design and had no time to iterate on it. Also, they only had one writer during most of the development (another one was hired after the KS), which is just not enough for a game of this size.
Actually, we should probably be glad that the story is as good as it is.

 

[Gord]

I always considered the story of D:OS to be serviceable. It's nothing special and it was told in a somewhat clunky way at times, but it provided some motivation for your characters.
However, dialogues often felt too convoluted and used too much slang, imho.
Probably also a consequence of having just one writer. A larger team might have lead to more varied dialogues and catched the worst offenders.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Incidentally, I haven't played D:OS, but I do think that sometimes bad stories (and even apparently bad writing) happen despite good writers -- sometimes you make a bad judgment early on that locks you into a story turns out not to really work, sometimes design constraints prevent a solid execution of the story, sometimes bad VO or bad translation obscures good writing, sometimes the press of deadlines requires settling for less than your best.

It is always easy to blame the writer, but in the case of D:OS the story was a victim of circumstances and it was never the game's focus. I helped to translate a plot-related KS update for D:OS and the story there was only slightly similar to what ended up in the final game. My guess is they had to do a major re-write after KS to adjust the story to the game and level design and had no time to iterate on it. Also, they only had one writer during most of the development (another one was hired after the KS), which is just not enough for a game of this size.
Actually, we should probably be glad that the story is as good as it is.

D:OS silly story and mediocre writing are not a one off occurrence due to an unfortunate series of events. They are a trend that has shone through every game Larian has developed.

They keep trying to feed the players this fantasy humor schtick, and its not working, and it wont work because humor, especially game humor is much harder to write well than "serious" fantasy.

 

[mondblut]

I'm having fun in general, tons of fun, but I've noticed that I more or less don't give a shit about the story. It just seems pretty shallow and uninteresting.

You've got guys with stats and enemies to kill and loot in turn-based mode. What's a "story" and why did you seek it there?

 

[hiver]

(If anyone is curious, I guess I can post portions of the samples I did.) When I failed the test, that was after having spent years writing fantasy (including for games, even including some branching dialogue) and at the peak of my cRPG-playing days.

Yeah, post some. Lets see what those biowarian standards are.

Examples i found in your game fiction "novel" were terrible enough.

I am quite confident that MicoSelva or Darth Roxor are more than talented enough to be writers; but without other variables coming into the right constellation, it can be hard for things to work out.

How the fuck can you be confident two random forum dumbasses are real writers when they have never written anything that was published anywhere? How the fuck can that be called a writer? Was there ever any writer that benefited from empty lip service like this?

And then you people complain that quality of writing has fallen down or isnt up to scratch in games?


hey i just wrote something on a forum - im a writer!

 

[Roguey]

They keep trying to feed the players this fantasy humor schtick, and its not working, and it wont work because humor, especially game humor is much harder to write well than "serious" fantasy.

IMO there's nothing particularly wrong with Larian's humor for the most part, it's the bog-standard by-the-numbers everything else i.e. the serious parts. If you ask me, Bioware's always been in a similar boat, except at times their humor can be annoyingly dumb.

Also in what world is tongue-in-cheek fantasy harder to write than serious fantasy.

 

[Kem0sabe]

IMO there's nothing particularly wrong with Larian's humor for the most part, it's the bog-standard by-the-numbers everything else i.e. the serious parts. If you ask me, Bioware's always been in a similar boat, except at times their humor can be annoyingly dumb.

Also in what world is tongue-in-cheek fantasy harder to write than serious fantasy.

Their style of humour lacks subtetly.

Their writers should have enough confidence in their script that they don't feel the need to spell out the punchline to the player.

 

[Jasede]

I'm having fun in general, tons of fun, but I've noticed that I more or less don't give a shit about the story. It just seems pretty shallow and uninteresting.

You've got guys with stats and enemies to kill and loot in turn-based mode. What's a "story" and why did you seek it there?

That's an admirable and classical viewpoint and all, but if you're going to focus on traditional RPG elements in lieu of writing and story - then don't fill the fucking game with nothing but.

 

[Turok]

Anyone can gimme 2 builds to have fun on the game?

 

[Ovplain]

You've got guys with stats and enemies to kill and loot in turn-based mode. What's a "story" and why did you seek it there?

I didn't seek shit. Well, I sought 'a good RPG', definitely found that and then some. Didn't seek a story, still found one though and it seems pretty shallow and uninteresting. Shame, but I still love this game, it's awesome! 90 hours deep now and I'm having a blast.=(