Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

[DraQ]

where the outcome hinges on a single isolated roll

Like roll d20?

Like any roll.

Take combat. Outcome of a combat doesn't hinge on a single roll. It involves multiple rolls interleaved with player's decisions determining what actions and therefore what rolls will happen next. With a good planning combat doesn't hinge on any single roll and because rolls and decisions alternate player can adapt to changing circumstances - sometimes it may mean fleeing.

OTOH if a single isolated roll can cut off a path or result in death by RNG, the only sensible reaction is to reload after failed roll, and if player is expected to circumvent the roll results by repeated reloads there is no reason to have this roll in the first place other than to waste player's time.

If you really need to fuck player over by a single roll, don't let player know until well after the fact, but this should only apply to recoverable failures - delayed death by RNG is even worse than a plain one.

 

[Irenaeus]

You can die on a bad roll in any PnP game, right?

 

[DraQ]

You can die on a bad roll in any PnP game, right?

• Dying in PnP game doesn't end the adventure, you need a TPK for that. At worst you'll have to roll up another character and work with the GM on how to introduce them into the adventure in progress. At best you'll get rezzed.
  
• Getting in a situation where single roll can kill you often happens at your discretion, if the GM doesn't railroad you can often minimize or bypass the risk by good planning and clever solutions.
• In PnP mechanics is meant to support the GM, GM can override it if it leads to the wrong thing. Bullshit deaths or especially TPKs players didn't tempt in any way through foolish behaviour can be counted among wrong outcomes. What counts as bullshit will vary from group to group.
• cRPGs can afford much more finely grained mechanics than PnP cRPGs (but lack GM), non party based cRPGs also have much lower threshold for irrecoverable failure - this changes what is and isn't permissible in a cRPG vs PnP RPG.

 

[rado907]

- The charisma games are horrible. Just give us a button "roll dice for charisma check" please.

I swear you all people are as dumb as a sack of fucking bricks.

Could you be referring to the button that the game does have? Because I used that one a couple of times and then decided it's an "auto-lose" button. But maybe I was just unlucky 0.o.

 

[Darth Roxor]

then perhaps you should have rephrased your earlier point as 'just give us a "win charisma check" button please'

 

[DraQ]

then perhaps you should have rephrased your earlier point as 'just give us a "win charisma check" button please'

Given that this is a single "reload until successful" roll it would still be an improvement.

 

[gaussgunner]

Found an interesting item in Hibernia..... the Codex of Pestilence

Spoiler

Grants infinite wisdom at the cost of your sanity

 

[Cnaiur]

I'm around level 15 now, close to the Spider Queen. But the increased amount of trial and error puzzles are killing my enthousiasm for this game. I'm having way to much fun with the combat on tactician difficulty, but for whatever reason Swen and co. thought it was fun to include a lot of silly puzzles, like in that cave close to all the spiders.

I've left the game for a couple of days at that point with not that much interest to start it up again. Is it only getting worse from here and have I've seen most of the combat related fun?

 

[gaussgunner]

Agreed, I can't fathom why so many otherwise reasonable RPG developers insist on putting stupid adventure game puzzles in their RPGs. Like the twin dungeons with the elements.. with the air and water symbols that are too similar.. and it seems to be just a sidequest.

In particular, fuck the "hidden object minigames" where you have to move your mouse around until something lights up (usually a place to dig). I didn't find the cave entrance to the secluded beach until level 9, and everything in there was level 5-6. I re-crawled every inch of the forest looking for shit like that, solved the twin dungeons, finally found the cave entrance only because there were some zombies guarding it. Reminds me of Avadon where you practically have to kill every animal in the woods to be sure you haven't missed something.

I just killed Arhu's machine, didn't really bother with the remote control. Does it even work?

I've still gotta finish Divine Divinity.....

 

[Bésame Mucho]

Is it only getting worse from here and have I've seen most of the combat related fun?

I would say that you are done. I quit at 16. Took a break, started the game again, took a looksy at my inventory of 4 chars and quit.
What follows are fights against orcs, demons who can only be hurt by tenebrium weapons and the grindy boss fight against the dragon
Even though you still have skills at level 16 and 18 I didnt bother.

 

[DragoFireheart]

I now own this for the PS4.

Control scheme is pretty good. Game is good fun so far. The dialog is cheeky and amusing.

 

[DavidBVal]

Never played a Larian game before, and started EE in Tactician Mode. I'm glad I did, what a blast! (often, literally a blast!)

25 hours in, I am level 9. Fun and brutal combat, I had not died and reloaded so much in years, yet most of the time it is my fault when making tactical decisions. I like how you really need to pay attention to details about how elements work, and what interactive elements are in the map, or you die even if you're a few levels above the enemies. Battles so far don't feel repetitive at all, each of them being rather unique depending on enemies special powers/items. Exploring for traps is really interesting, splitting the party with a rogue walking ahead is a must.

 

[gaussgunner]

I'm definitely gonna replay on Tactician and see how fast I can blast through it when I know my way around the puzzles. Steal some good gear in Cyseal and hit the war path. No sidequests, no crafting items, probably no companions. Maybe I'll just do that instead of finishing Divine Divinity. I tried the other night but was too tired to stay awake for realtime combat.

Speaking of traps... I haven't bothered splitting my party, now I just use single file formation and select Bairdotr (highest perception) to lead. Figured that out while trying to get into the ice king's prison.

Has anyone tried playing the whole game on Tactician without companions or lone wolf? Is it fun? Tactically interesting?

 

[DragoFireheart]

Still playing. Just Classic difficulty mode.

Even with console peasant controls, this game's combat is great fun. Also love that you don't need a specific class.

Ex: can burn the fuck out of doors and chests without needing a rogue.

 

[Ninjerk]

Even with console peasant controls,

 

[DragoFireheart]

Even with console peasant controls,

I'm a filthy console peasant.

 

[commie]

Even with console peasant controls, this game's combat is great fun.

I actually go between mouse k/b and controller with this game as sometimes I want to lounge on the couch.I'm really digging the smooth change of UI and controller use is surprisingly good.

 

[KevinV12000]

Does anyone know why the voice acting was completely re-done for the Enhanced Edition? The voice actors for the original version were vastly superior, and I can't figure out why they would have taken on the expense and time of doing it all over again. Even at the very beginning, if you compare the original's Ishmashell to the EE's version, it's night and day. One was read by an actor with some idea of character, the other by someone speed-reading to get the assignment done.

 

[Irenaeus]

Does anyone know why the voice acting was completely re-done for the Enhanced Edition? The voice actors for the original version were vastly superior, and I can't figure out why they would have taken on the expense and time of doing it all over again. Even at the very beginning, if you compare the original's Ishmashell to the EE's version, it's night and day. One was read by an actor with some idea of character, the other by someone speed-reading to get the assignment done.

I'm still pissed that they replaced the cheese vendor

Whatthe fuck? tHEy replaced the shellbro too? Unforgivable

 

[DavidBVal]

I directly played the EE so I can't compare voice acting between editions, but

A) Acting is of varying quality, some of it is good, if you like theatrical exageration.
B) I still hate it and will probably turn it off. If I ever feel like listening to other human beings voices, while I patiently waste seconds of my precious life while I wait for them to finish talking, I'll do it outside of my RPGing, thanks.

Only right voice acting is smart one-liners like in W8 or Jagged alliance.

 

[DragoFireheart]

My theory is that console players were unable to comprehend the original dialogue audio since sheep and humans have different hearing ranges, so it had to be rerecorded at a different frequency.

Can confirm. Went to watch some trailers of the non-EE version.

Confused the shit out of me. Glad they changed it for the EE edition.

 

[KevinV12000]

Does anyone know why the voice acting was completely re-done for the Enhanced Edition? The voice actors for the original version were vastly superior, and I can't figure out why they would have taken on the expense and time of doing it all over again. Even at the very beginning, if you compare the original's Ishmashell to the EE's version, it's night and day. One was read by an actor with some idea of character, the other by someone speed-reading to get the assignment done.

I'm still pissed that they replaced the cheese vendor

Whatthe fuck? tHEy replaced the shellbro too? Unforgivable

I know! The cheese vendor was friggin' awesome. He's still good in the new version, though not EPIC CHEESE MAN like before.

 

[Zep Zepo]

The old cheese vendor was OK. They just needed to cut back the frequency of his barks.

Zep--

 

[SniperHF]

Does anyone know why the voice acting was completely re-done for the Enhanced Edition? The voice actors for the original version were vastly superior, and I can't figure out why they would have taken on the expense and time of doing it all over again. Even at the very beginning, if you compare the original's Ishmashell to the EE's version, it's night and day. One was read by an actor with some idea of character, the other by someone speed-reading to get the assignment done.

The original version had few lines voiced but done by very high quality and expensive voice actors. Doing the whole game with that VA company would have been too expensive.

Also see:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-enhanced-edition.92612/page-375#post-4558990

 

[KevinV12000]

Thank you SniperHF, I appreciate you taking the time to respond and to point me to the earlier discussion I somehow missed. I'm not surprised at the reason; the difference in quality is quite large!