Divinity: Original Sin Pre-Release Thread

[Volrath]

I like Roguey. She's blunt and and to the point. She challenges ideas (perhaps not her own) and doesn't walk away from a discussion (which usually ends in butthurt from the other people involved). A+ poster.

Larian are too focused on components. Individual quests, ideas, system functions. This approach may end up creating good tools and the occasional fun quest, but will probably result in a poor over-arching plot, generic characters, and plenty of tiresome CRPG tropes.
At best, I think this game will be a fun game. Maybe a great game. But not a timeless masterpiece, not an engaging drama for the ages or something people will return to when there are sequels out.
Partly because of what I've already written, but also because Larian are too silly and random and lack the creative writing of a US studio.
Also they keep insisting on using their super-generic "who the fuck cares" fantasy world in all their games.

Toolset makes me very excited though.

 

[Visperas]

Jumping off a cliff in Dragon Knight saga and turning into a Dragon midair was fun...

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Why Gothic 1/2? I never got the intention that they were going for something like Gothic, combat-wise (or in most other parts of the game design).

We are all talking about The Dragon Knight Saga, right? That's the one that they had wanted to do in a Gothic 1/2 way.

 

[MicoSelva]

Mind reading was an entertaining gimmick, but I just can't get over with it having no effect on the plot at all. Such a thing should be a game-changer, with whole quests resolving around it. It should be something like the Nameless One's regeneration in PST*. This level of segregation between a unique gameplay mechanic and story is what makes Larian games cap out at 'decent' level, not being able to achieve the level of true classics.

*I went with regeneration because it is a secondary power to his immortality, just as mind-reading is secondary to turning into a dragon in Div.2.

 

[Zeriel]

Mindreading opened up some quests, offered solutions to others. It was as well integrated as anything else in the game.

 

[Gord]

We are all talking about The Dragon Knight Saga, right? That's the one that they had wanted to do in a Gothic 1/2 way.

Oh, my mistake then. Somehow I thought this combat thing was refering to the D:OS kickstarter.

(Just got out of bed, no coffee yet, blablabla...)

 

[abnaxus]

Mindreading opened up some quests, offered solutions to others. It was as well integrated as anything else in the game.

Also some unique loot was only acquirable by mindreading.

 

[aleph]

It is a mystery why you haven't got a dumbfuck tag yet.

I've written two front page-approved articles, got Gragt a chance to visit Larian by acting obnoxious enough to get Vincke's attention, and broke the news about Brian Fargo owning the Torment trademark, among other things.

That's just it, you apparently know plenty about RPGs, but most things you post here come down to blind Sawyer worship and a disregard for any game design that is not extremely gamist

 

[Meepo]

Reality is that most games past and present are bad because Americans (and Europeans who blindly copy Americans) have an obsession with simulating reality even though it makes for unfun gameplay. The Japanese have the right idea when it comes to abstraction, though I don't particularly care for the execution of many of their ideas.

Fascinating.
So, what is your RPG of the year?
http://www.spike.com/vgx/best-rpg

 

[Zed]

Partly because of what I've already written, but also because Larian are too silly and random and lack the creative writing of a US studio.
Also they keep insisting on using their super-generic "who the fuck cares" fantasy world in all their games.

Toolset makes me very excited though.

I think people's opinions have changed over the years. It's natural for people to grow up and reject whimsical things that in their youth they enjoyed. That doesn't make those whimsical things bad though. While many people may hold up a PS:T or MotB style of writing around here as optimal, it's just a matter of tastes. Larian has always been straightforward about their influences with D:OS, primarily Ultima 7. And I can see that influence very clearly in their writing, too. In the 90's there was this certain type of written-by-adults whimsical fantasy that you saw in games like Ultima, Heroes of Might and Magic. D:OS is a pretty clear inheritor of that lineage. You can dislike that, but I don't think it's fair to call it inferior or unprofessional.

Actually I had the same problems playing DD as a teenager. It doesn't have to be PS:T or MotB writing either. BG, IWD, FO, VTMB and many more all had whimsical moments but you still cared for the plot and characters.
And I do think it's inferior from a creative writing point-of-view. I think it's much easier to create something lighthearted and inconsistent, than something more engaging that can be taken a little more seriously.

It feels like a lack of ambition, honestly. Just the fact that they put the Divine Divinity world (sorry even after all these games I don't remember what it's called) in all their games is a testament to this. We're seeing worlds being built this moment: eternity and torment. Squabbles in the pantheon, political intrigue, world situations that are basically begging for moral issues. "Spins" and "takes" on traditional fantasy. But most important: a world that shapes believable stories. In Larian games it feels like the stories can be about whatever.
Sure, I'm glad they're not riding on the grimdark Game of Thrones-wave, but for a "choices and consequences"-centric title, I think using this undefined and random world is worse.

Roguey is a great poster. The butthurt she leaves in her wake just makes this place better.

 

[Roguey]

Fascinating.
So, what is your RPG of the year?
http://www.spike.com/vgx/best-rpg

Fire Emblem looks like the one I'd enjoy the most.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Roguey is a guy. We should address him as masculine. In case he isn't... patriarchy

Commissar Draco
Initially Divinity 2 was supposed to have gothic-esque action combat, with parries/blocks dodges etc, among many other things ike multiplayer, a grand Strategy part, Elven/dwarf location, an outer area of Alaroth etc.

That is perhaps my only worry about Larian, they might have promised more than their extended budget would allow...leading to sparser endgame content (compare Broken Valley with rest of the game without the expansion)

 

[MicoSelva]

Actually I had the same problems playing DD as a teenager. It doesn't have to be PS:T or MotB writing either. BG, IWD, FO, VTMB and many more all had whimsical moments but you still cared for the plot and characters.
And I do think it's inferior from a creative writing point-of-view. I think it's much easier to create something lighthearted and inconsistent, than something more engaging that can be taken a little more seriously.

It feels like a lack of ambition, honestly. Just the fact that they put the Divine Divinity world (sorry even after all these games I don't remember what it's called) in all their games is a testament to this. We're seeing worlds being built this moment: eternity and torment. Squabbles in the pantheon, political intrigue, world situations that are basically begging for moral issues. "Spins" and "takes" on traditional fantasy. But most important: a world that shapes believable stories. In Larian games it feels like the stories can be about whatever.
Sure, I'm glad they're not riding on the grimdark Game of Thrones-wave, but for a "choices and consequences"-centric title, I think using this undefined and random world is worse.

I agree, although I would not call Larian games unambitious. They just place their ambitions in other areas than setting and plot. And yeah, Rivellon is basically a placeholder generic fantasy setting that is able to host whatever wacky ideas Larian comes up with for their current game. Jumping all around the timeline does not help either. The only direct continuation is DivDiv -> Div2 and even these are separated by enough time and geography to free Larian of most of the continuity burden and the necessity to actually develop the story/setting. D:OS is a distant prequel, Dragon Commander is an even more distant prequel (so much it should be called DINO Commander*) and Beyond Divinity is... I don't even know. However, continuity rejection does not prevent them from keeping their favourite themes and characters between games (Maxos, teleporter piramids, that talking cat, etc.). Overall it is a pretty lazy approach to setting and lore, but I guess that's just not what they want to focus on.

*Divinity in Name Only

 

[MicoSelva]

I agree, for what it's worth. ;-)

 

[Commissar Draco]

Played both of DD and DKS from the GOG and it is step above game which was released; as to forgeting characters it is not Biowhore game when you're forced to pick and nany the rejects and scum of galaxy and hang around some hubs; you do your local quest, clear map from hostiles and move on where and when the story advances; the gameplay is engaging enough thanks to random encounters and side quests so main plot being uneven is not something you dwell on.

 

[Stabbey]

I agree that generally the overarching story of the Divinity games isn't that great, and their continuity between games is wildly inconsistent. For example, I never got the impression that the Engineer from Divine Divinity was actually an eons-old metal monster until suddenly it turned out that was the case. When you focus so much on freedom and non-linearity, it tends to make for a weaker overall storyline.

 

[DeepOcean]

Played both of DD and DKS from the GOG and it is step above game which was released; as to forgeting characters it is not Biowhore game when you're forced to pick and nany the rejects and scum of galaxy and hang around some hubs; you do your local quest, clear map from hostiles and move on where and when the story advances; the gameplay is engaging enough thanks to random encounters and side quests so main plot being uneven is not something you dwell on.

Man, I didn't forgot the Bioware characters for all the wrong reasons.

Larian is like Bethesda before becoming a place full of cynics that want the most money possible with the least effort. You don't play their games for emotional engaging or hot challenging combat. There is a world full of interesting quests, encounters and alot of interesting mechanics to explore that not necessarily makes a coherent whole but fun as hell to play. When Swen says that he loves Ultima VII, he isn't kidding. Ultima VII influenced them since Div Div 1. D:OS will be a well made Ultima VII clone but with turn based combat, many people aren't going to like it as I can safely bet that the story isn't gonna get awards and the combat will be a little on the formulaic side as those are their main flaws but I will have a hell of a time exploring the quests, characters and mechanics.

 

[Jedi Exile]

Larian games are an interesting case. There are so many flaws about them. Even I can see them easily though I don't know much about mechanics and quest design. Still, they are also incredibly fun to play. Take Divinity 2 for example. A lot of people really hate it (especially Divine Divinity fans), and for good reason. Still, Divinity 2 is probably one the most enjoyable games I ever played. There are so many things to do, secrets to uncover, minds to read, places to visit. My guess is that Larian is still trying to make games like in 1990s (as DeepOcean said), games that are probably not going to sell very well, but are fun to play.

 

[Jedi Exile]

I was talking about Divinity 2 and Divine Divinity. Strategy games aren't my thing. I played Dragon Commander but didn't get far and I can't compare it to other RTS games.

 

[SCO]

I backed this. Divine Divinity quest + editor + turnbased combat whats not to like. That they also have a sophisticated hotseat mode is a non-issue for this FOREVER ALONE.
Except in that it might make the quests and dungeons a bit more variated (for instance, i'm pretty sure the reason the infinity engine never really used the ability it had to separate the party was because of RT combat).

 

[Murk]

Why Gothic 1/2? I never got the intention that they were going for something like Gothic, combat-wise (or in most other parts of the game design).

We are all talking about The Dragon Knight Saga, right? That's the one that they had wanted to do in a Gothic 1/2 way.

Correct; not D: OS. I was talking about Div 2 and DKS (hence the mind-reading stuff). They had posted a video to their youtube account that showed what they had planned for Div 2 and what as scrapped; there was a combat demo showing some dodging/parrying stuff that seemed like it was more than just click-click-click.

 

[Infinitron]

Update: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/larianstudios/divinity-original-sin/posts/678463



Alpha delayed, but both the beta and alpha are now open to ALL BACKERS. Pledgers to those tiers will receive Larian Vault credits and also refunds if they ask for them.

Also, Dodger

 

[Hobz]

Now they can sell the early access on steam without causing (additional) buthurt. Hopefully it will balance out the cost of refunds and extra goodies sent to alpha/beta backers.

 

[SCO]

most people won't refund as most people ordinarily don't

 

[General Maxson]

Now I can finally feel like a rich backer.