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Dragon Age Dragon Age: The Veilguard Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

skaraher

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The comparison between Dragon Age and A Song of Ice and Fire was always made as early as 2009, you can even find trace of it in the mainstream game journo press, I recalled even it being made on various French forums by plebeians, and the inspirations are quite blatant for several elements. All the knights are even called Ser.
 

skaraher

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I don't have a primary source, but discussions on the Dragon Age wiki mention David Gaider himself admitting the ASOIAF inspiration. Of course it's not the only one. Dragon Age's elfs are inspired by the Witcher, its magic/Fade/demons by Warhammer 40k psykers/Warp (and yes, it's a ripoff, though Wh40k ripped off Dune and Moorcock, this particular take on daemon-possessing psykers etc is copied straight from it), references to LOTR are obvious, etc.

It always was a mash hup of whatever was popular among fantasy fans at the time. Only thing that was a bit original was Qunari (well the schtick of making a race of communist mage-hating folks wasn't totally new neither, but it wasn't as blatant as other references) and they did try to do something interesting with the setting in the Awakening DLC. Which is funny, cause they totally canned that storyline in latter games.

EDIT : found a source : https://venturebeat.com/community/2...-interview-part-ii-creativity-and-the-novels/
 
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9ted6

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and they did try to do something interesting with the setting in the Awakening DLC. Which is funny, cause they totally canned that storyline in latter games.
DA could've been more interesting than a lot of what influenced it, but the entire series was shitcanned by the later games. The Qunari were the only interesting thing left by DA2 then DAI turned their homeland into San Francisco.
 
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I just don't accept DA2 and DA:I exist, and from that I think the world of Dragon Age is great. It's not ground breaking, but it does just enough to make it unique in different ways, with good C&C, good companions, etc. that it's really a solid experience. I really don't understand some of the hate it gets. The only aspect I think detracts from the experience is trash mobs. I don't understand hate it gets from certain people. I mean, I understand retarded popamole, DA:I lovers hating it, but I can't see why someone who loves crpg's hates it. Might not be your cup of tea, but to say it's trash screams bias against bioware (not that I don't understand why someone would become jaded dealing with them).
 

Justinian

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I just don't accept DA2 and DA:I exist, and from that I think the world of Dragon Age is great. It's not ground breaking, but it does just enough to make it unique in different ways, with good C&C, good companions, etc. that it's really a solid experience. I really don't understand some of the hate it gets. The only aspect I think detracts from the experience is trash mobs. I don't understand hate it gets from certain people. I mean, I understand retarded popamole, DA:I lovers hating it, but I can't see why someone who loves crpg's hates it. Might not be your cup of tea, but to say it's trash screams bias against bioware (not that I don't understand why someone would become jaded dealing with them).
The setting is one of the most boring I've ever seen, and the game is set in the most boring area of that setting.

The gameplay in Dragon Age 2 is good, non-mage builds are more interesting than in Origins, the story is better (and less cliche'd), it does suffer from having been made in such a short time, and it does have more shitty characters (and you gimp yourself by not taking and catering to Isabella's bullshit by missing out on a good permanent buff IIRC), but overall it was a much better "good for what it was" experience than Origins.

Origins completely and utterly fails at being a BG2 successor, whereas DA2 actually tries to be its own thing in a niche that is sorely lacking (party based ARPGs).
 

9ted6

Educated
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Mar 24, 2023
Messages
903
I just don't accept DA2 and DA:I exist, and from that I think the world of Dragon Age is great. It's not ground breaking, but it does just enough to make it unique in different ways, with good C&C, good companions, etc. that it's really a solid experience. I really don't understand some of the hate it gets. The only aspect I think detracts from the experience is trash mobs. I don't understand hate it gets from certain people. I mean, I understand retarded popamole, DA:I lovers hating it, but I can't see why someone who loves crpg's hates it. Might not be your cup of tea, but to say it's trash screams bias against bioware (not that I don't understand why someone would become jaded dealing with them).
The setting is one of the most boring I've ever seen, and the game is set in the most boring area of that setting.

The gameplay in Dragon Age 2 is good, non-mage builds are more interesting than in Origins, the story is better (and less cliche'd), it does suffer from having been made in such a short time, and it does have more shitty characters (and you gimp yourself by not taking and catering to Isabella's bullshit by missing out on a good permanent buff IIRC), but overall it was a much better "good for what it was" experience than Origins.
2 turns everyone into a massive idiot, shit gets hypersexualized and more grimderp, and the plot is a complete railroad. Origins wasn't the most exciting world but it was serviceable and nothing about it was especially bad. 2's better than Inquisition but it's worse than Origins.
 
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I just don't accept DA2 and DA:I exist, and from that I think the world of Dragon Age is great. It's not ground breaking, but it does just enough to make it unique in different ways, with good C&C, good companions, etc. that it's really a solid experience. I really don't understand some of the hate it gets. The only aspect I think detracts from the experience is trash mobs. I don't understand hate it gets from certain people. I mean, I understand retarded popamole, DA:I lovers hating it, but I can't see why someone who loves crpg's hates it. Might not be your cup of tea, but to say it's trash screams bias against bioware (not that I don't understand why someone would become jaded dealing with them).
The setting is one of the most boring I've ever seen, and the game is set in the most boring area of that setting.

The gameplay in Dragon Age 2 is good, non-mage builds are more interesting than in Origins, the story is better (and less cliche'd), it does suffer from having been made in such a short time, and it does have more shitty characters (and you gimp yourself by not taking and catering to Isabella's bullshit by missing out on a good permanent buff IIRC), but overall it was a much better "good for what it was" experience than Origins.

Origins completely and utterly fails at being a BG2 successor, whereas DA2 actually tries to be its own thing in a niche that is sorely lacking (party based ARPGs).
DA:2 made the world of Dragon Age much more Black & White. It's not as bad as DA:I in that regard, but it was the start. Say what you want about DA:O, but it leaves out enough information to where the Chantry can be good or bad based on perspective, the act of making some tranquil can be argued, etc. Then you have the companions, sluts, in your face fags, an anime character, etc. How is that less cliched than a setting that's much more open to interpretation?
 

Zeriel

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Messages
13,967
Larian is just one studio and it will almost certainly be another 4 years at least before they release their next game. There's no way that they can satisfy the Bioware wannabe market by themselves. So there's no reason why Bioware that has gone back to their roots can't exist together with Larian.
There can only be one waifu dev studio. The other are mere distractions, one-night stands while the waifu is away.

And if said studio's games have modding, fetishes can be sustained for a long time.

I wouldn't be so sure. I'm repeating myself but of all places the one where the most people claim they wouldn't touch BG3 with a stick due to tactical combat is the Dragon Age reddit.
Granted, you have a point there. Like Cat Headed Eagle says, among those that care a lot about waifus and fetishes, many don't care much for tactical or any intelligence-requiring gameplay. They want to play dress-up, feel powerful, get to the story and the romances. Top-down tactical combat is the opposite. So yeah, I can see another studio catering to those wishes.

Still, I think that players being "loyal" to a company that makes their chosen waifu(s) and gives them customizability and modding to invest further into the "relationship" is a behavioral pattern we can observe.

Honestly, I think the romance angle is heavily oversold. The main difference is immersion. Strategy/tactics versus inhabiting a moment/the world. You can even compare this in Larian's own games, the style of game and feeling that a game like DKS inspires compared to DOS. They are totally different.

Of course you can be immersed in a game like BG, but it's a totally different style of immersion, the context of exploration is rather different clicking around a map as opposed to climbing over a ridge yourself in first person, etc.

That being said I don't think Larian even really does the BG1 exploration style of game either. There's no worldmap in BG3, fog of war practically doesn't exist as a consideration, and so on and so forth. There are lots of impulses that BG3 and DOS don't satisfy that is completely neutral on the woke/waifu/whatever question.
 

Justinian

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Messages
292
I just don't accept DA2 and DA:I exist, and from that I think the world of Dragon Age is great. It's not ground breaking, but it does just enough to make it unique in different ways, with good C&C, good companions, etc. that it's really a solid experience. I really don't understand some of the hate it gets. The only aspect I think detracts from the experience is trash mobs. I don't understand hate it gets from certain people. I mean, I understand retarded popamole, DA:I lovers hating it, but I can't see why someone who loves crpg's hates it. Might not be your cup of tea, but to say it's trash screams bias against bioware (not that I don't understand why someone would become jaded dealing with them).
The setting is one of the most boring I've ever seen, and the game is set in the most boring area of that setting.

The gameplay in Dragon Age 2 is good, non-mage builds are more interesting than in Origins, the story is better (and less cliche'd), it does suffer from having been made in such a short time, and it does have more shitty characters (and you gimp yourself by not taking and catering to Isabella's bullshit by missing out on a good permanent buff IIRC), but overall it was a much better "good for what it was" experience than Origins.

Origins completely and utterly fails at being a BG2 successor, whereas DA2 actually tries to be its own thing in a niche that is sorely lacking (party based ARPGs).
DA:2 made the world of Dragon Age much more Black & White. It's not as bad as DA:I in that regard, but it was the start. Say what you want about DA:O, but it leaves out enough information to where the Chantry can be good or bad based on perspective, the act of making some tranquil can be argued, etc. Then you have the companions, sluts, in your face fags, an anime character, etc. How is that less cliched than a setting that's much more open to interpretation?
In DAO you're the hero who saves the world from the Big Bad. It's about as stereotypical as it gets.

In DA:2 you're some asshole who fucks shit up on his way to riches and power.

The romance is extremely easy to avoid in either game, isabella is the only flamboyantly sexual companion and you can just ignore her(albeit at the cost of a useful buff, but there might be a mod that fixes that). Varric and Aveline are the most well written companions and also the least offensive, and they fulfill key roles so you can bring them along in every playthrough, which I do. Your sister can be your mage for most of the game so you don't have to put up with the awful mage selection until late in the game (or at all if you're the mage). But DAO also had similar problems since alistair and morrigan are both insufferable and it takes a while to get wynne and the dwarf, and the elf in origins is several magnitudes gayer than the one in 2. It boils down to whether you want your shit sandwich front loaded or back loaded.:smug:
 

9ted6

Educated
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903
But DAO also had similar problems since alistair and morrigan are both insufferable and it takes a while to get wynne and the dwarf, and the elf in origins is several magnitudes gayer than the one in 2.:smug:
I'd take Alistair over every companion in 2, and though the Origins elf is literally gayer 2's elf is figuratively gayer and marks the point where DA went from a generally serious dark fantasy style to anime.
 

gurugeorge

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I just don't accept DA2 and DA:I exist, and from that I think the world of Dragon Age is great. It's not ground breaking, but it does just enough to make it unique in different ways, with good C&C, good companions, etc. that it's really a solid experience. I really don't understand some of the hate it gets. The only aspect I think detracts from the experience is trash mobs. I don't understand hate it gets from certain people. I mean, I understand retarded popamole, DA:I lovers hating it, but I can't see why someone who loves crpg's hates it. Might not be your cup of tea, but to say it's trash screams bias against bioware (not that I don't understand why someone would become jaded dealing with them).
The setting is one of the most boring I've ever seen, and the game is set in the most boring area of that setting.

The gameplay in Dragon Age 2 is good, non-mage builds are more interesting than in Origins, the story is better (and less cliche'd), it does suffer from having been made in such a short time, and it does have more shitty characters (and you gimp yourself by not taking and catering to Isabella's bullshit by missing out on a good permanent buff IIRC), but overall it was a much better "good for what it was" experience than Origins.

Origins completely and utterly fails at being a BG2 successor, whereas DA2 actually tries to be its own thing in a niche that is sorely lacking (party based ARPGs).
DA:2 made the world of Dragon Age much more Black & White. It's not as bad as DA:I in that regard, but it was the start. Say what you want about DA:O, but it leaves out enough information to where the Chantry can be good or bad based on perspective, the act of making some tranquil can be argued, etc. Then you have the companions, sluts, in your face fags, an anime character, etc. How is that less cliched than a setting that's much more open to interpretation?
In DAO you're the hero who saves the world from the Big Bad. It's about as stereotypical as it gets.

In DA:2 you're some asshole who fucks shit up on his way to riches and power.

The romance is extremely easy to avoid in either game, isabella is the only flamboyantly sexual companion and you can just ignore her(albeit at the cost of a useful buff, but there might be a mod that fixes that). Varric and Aveline are the most well written companions and also the least offensive, and they fulfill key roles so you can bring them along in every playthrough, which I do. Your sister can be your mage for most of the game so you don't have to put up with the awful mage selection until late in the game (or at all if you're the mage). But DAO also had similar problems since alistair and morrigan are both insufferable and it takes a while to get wynne and the dwarf, and the elf in origins is several magnitudes gayer than the one in 2. It boils down to whether you want your shit sandwich front loaded or back loaded.:smug:

Yeah but a stereotpyical story can be told well or badly, DA:O tells a stereotpyical story quite well. I was never really engaged by the DA2 story for some reason, maybe more because the setting never really felt like a virtual world (it felt more like a stage set), whereas DA:O's did. (What I mean is, I could imagine characters and places in DA:O having their own life without me there, not so with DA2, it all felt very "player-facing" so to speak.)
 

DemonKing

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DA2 was terrible - so many cut and pasted, reused areas and the dialog options got massively reduced in detail to the point you were picking a "vibe" more than an actual response.
 
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How exactly did it rip off GoT? Other than it being dark and the betrayal in the beginning of DA:O I don't see that many similarities. And even that is related in the sense that it's something that can happen in the GoT world.

Are people comparing The Night Watch with the Grey Wardens? Both are some obscure knight order but they as well don't have that much in common.
GOT vs Dragon Age:

-First, the dragons being an otherworldly threat to break in the "peace" of political scheming
-Magic is either really esoteric stuff or just swamp people
-Chasind/barb tribes from beyond the wall are pretty similar as well.
-As I said, noble houses scheming is very similar between both.
-A special group is tasked with defending the kingdoms from the otherwordly threat, and it's very much a thankless job
-There's a battle hardened general who is somewhat of a ruler but not really, and very interesting as a figure, and has a blonde daughter who is an absolute cunt
-Hot woman makes magic and is not what she seems
-Main religious belief is heavily inspired by christianism
-Shit sex scenes only seen as exciting and sensual by kissless virgins

Plenty of stuff among them. A lot of them heavily inspired by what GoT brought to the table. GoT was huge among Bioware and Bethesda, they've both put stuff influenced by GRRM in their games.
 

Ismaul

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Honestly, I think the romance angle is heavily oversold. The main difference is immersion. Strategy/tactics versus inhabiting a moment/the world. You can even compare this in Larian's own games, the style of game and feeling that a game like DKS inspires compared to DOS. They are totally different.

Of course you can be immersed in a game like BG, but it's a totally different style of immersion, the context of exploration is rather different clicking around a map as opposed to climbing over a ridge yourself in first person, etc.
I'm not sure what disagreement we have here.

Of course 1st/3rd person play is more immersive than top-down and builds more into the fantasy of being in the world and of being someone else. But it also allows for shallower gameplay (not necessarily but allows for), walking simulator type, that moves the focus from tactics and thought-through gameplay to just inhabiting the world, being the character, interacting, and yes, enables a focus on romances. Top-down kinda forces you out of that, makes everything more abstract, detached from the character, and leads to a type of gameplay that is more about tactics/strategy and less about the lived experience.

The point was that, among those that want romances and fetishes, this is something that part of this audience wants and that BG3 isn't delivering.
 
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gurugeorge

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Honestly, I think the romance angle is heavily oversold. The main difference is immersion. Strategy/tactics versus inhabiting a moment/the world. You can even compare this in Larian's own games, the style of game and feeling that a game like DKS inspires compared to DOS. They are totally different.

Of course you can be immersed in a game like BG, but it's a totally different style of immersion, the context of exploration is rather different clicking around a map as opposed to climbing over a ridge yourself in first person, etc.
I'm not sure what disagreement we have here.

Of course 1st/3rd person play is more immersive than top-down and builds more into the fantasy of being in the world and of being someone else. But it also allows for shallower gameplay, walking simulator type, that moves the focus from tactics and thought-through gameplay to just inhabiting the world, being the character, interacting, and yes, enables a focus on romances. Top-down kinda forces you out of that, makes everything more abstract, detached from the character, and leads to a type of gameplay that is more about tactics/strategy and less about the lived experience.
Why not both? Top-down combat with free 3rd person exploration just seems like a no-brainer to me, the perfect combination.

DA:O tried to implement it, other games have done one or the other aspect better, but no game has really combined both properly. In a way, DA:I almost did it, could have done it, in terms of the slickness of the control system, and of being able to easily switch from one mode to another, but the top-down camera/gameplay was never as refined and detailed as it should have been, and they made the mistake of forcing the combat to be playable in 3rd person as well as top-down.

(Oddly and coincidentally enough, at the moment, playing BG3 with the Native Camera mod, WASD walking and the r-click mouselook .ahk comes the closest to the ideal that I've yet played. Combat is resolutely top-down and turn-based, but with a lot of camera flexibility, exploration is MMO-style 3rd person mouse-steering, but switchable to camera movement at will, and still with the point-and-click movement option relying on AI to find it's path, even when in 3rd person. It's probably the best experience I've yet had in a system that combines the two. It's also how NWN2 should have worked, I think how they wanted it to work, but never got it right.)
 
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Ismaul

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Why not both? Top-down combat with free 3rd person exploration just seems like a no-brainer to me, the perfect combination.
Sure, it's a no-brainer for you and a valid way of doing thing. I heard BG3 can do it, but PC controls aren't adapted to WASD movement (yet).

But I wasn't talking about you, or me for that matter, but the get-me-to-the-emotional-gratification-and-romances larping crowd. Some people don't care for the tactics, it's in the way of what they care about.
 

Axel_am

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How exactly did it rip off GoT? Other than it being dark and the betrayal in the beginning of DA:O I don't see that many similarities. And even that is related in the sense that it's something that can happen in the GoT world.

Are people comparing The Night Watch with the Grey Wardens? Both are some obscure knight order but they as well don't have that much in common.
GOT vs Dragon Age:

-First, the dragons being an otherworldly threat to break in the "peace" of political scheming
-Magic is either really esoteric stuff or just swamp people
-Chasind/barb tribes from beyond the wall are pretty similar as well.
-As I said, noble houses scheming is very similar between both.
-A special group is tasked with defending the kingdoms from the otherwordly threat, and it's very much a thankless job
-There's a battle hardened general who is somewhat of a ruler but not really, and very interesting as a figure, and has a blonde daughter who is an absolute cunt
-Hot woman makes magic and is not what she seems
-Main religious belief is heavily inspired by christianism
-Shit sex scenes only seen as exciting and sensual by kissless virgins

Plenty of stuff among them. A lot of them heavily inspired by what GoT brought to the table. GoT was huge among Bioware and Bethesda, they've both put stuff influenced by GRRM in their games.

I agree that DA:O was inspired by GoT and other fantasy genres and stereotypes but I cannot say that it ripped off Game of Thrones. Meshing existing ideas from other fantasy worlds is normal for the genre.

For the beginning of a series Origins sets ups things pretty well. Yes, it borrows from others but it never felt like it was ripping off anything.
 

Justicar

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I don't have a primary source, but discussions on the Dragon Age wiki mention David Gaider himself admitting the ASOIAF inspiration. Of course it's not the only one. Dragon Age's elfs are inspired by the Witcher, its magic/Fade/demons by Warhammer 40k psykers/Warp (and yes, it's a ripoff, though Wh40k ripped off Dune and Moorcock, this particular take on daemon-possessing psykers etc is copied straight from it), references to LOTR are obvious, etc.

It always was a mash hup of whatever was popular among fantasy fans at the time. Only thing that was a bit original was Qunari (well the schtick of making a race of communist mage-hating folks wasn't totally new neither, but it wasn't as blatant as other references) and they did try to do something interesting with the setting in the Awakening DLC. Which is funny, cause they totally canned that storyline in latter games.

EDIT : found a source : https://venturebeat.com/community/2...-interview-part-ii-creativity-and-the-novels/
Even the gay wardens are basically witcher rip-offs btw. witcher 1 managed to have mature themes and content without having shitty art style and everything being 50 shades of brown long before faggot age was ever released.
 

volklore

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DA2 had better concept for an RPG story imo and game structure. Game got rushed in a year with shit gameplay. Waste of a good setting and a good plot idea.
 

Dishonoredbr

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DA2 had better concept for an RPG story imo and game structure. Game got rushed in a year with shit gameplay. Waste of a good setting and a good plot idea.
I love the ideas that DA2 had, how they did is sadly poorly done.. But still being not the Hero to defeat the Big Bad Dragon, it's still refreshing to play as a Poor refugee (not for long but still)
 

volklore

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DA2 had better concept for an RPG story imo and game structure. Game got rushed in a year with shit gameplay. Waste of a good setting and a good plot idea.
The actual writing was really subpar and Qunari invasion + Mage vs Templar felt really disjointed.
Yeah execution is atrocious. But I like the concept (some rando building up a faction and climbing up the ladder within the city, influencing big events in the course of a wide period - no big save the world plot, no gods or cosmic threat), it was quite ambitious but didn't get the required dev time/resources. Not saying nu-bioware could have pulled it off but one does wonder.
 

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