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Eador Genesis

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,266
Location
Poland
Oh man, the later games are starting to take a while. I can't see myself playing more than one shard even on a good day. Cant wait to see the day that enemy uses dragons as their citadel guard (seen a stack of phoenix already...)

BTW, karma modifiers are everywhere - even in constructed buildings, using diplomacy on evil units etc.

Another question: how do you hatch creatures from eggs? Had a lot of spider and slug eggs, couldnt use them even with level 2 slots. What buildings do I need for that?

There are specific buildings specific unit types require, first ones in the forest category. The descriptions say which monster units they enable.

I just finished off 2 enemies by pressing F10. Does wonders for my karma though since I burned through units like crazy. Didnt know its bad, but makes sense actually.

And it sucks about neutral units needing buildings. You get them early and they could be useful but then you have wait for special buildings and they are not worth it anymore. At least slugs (too slow and range too short) and spiders (too squishy). Dunno if you can have other neutrals from eggs. I know you can get any number of harpies from their nests which is nice, even if they are nothing to write home about. Any other units you can recruit from lairs?
 

DakaSha

Arcane
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
4,792
Things are different on higher difficulties.
And im not saying brigands are better. they arent.
I just, personally, find everything to be pretty balanced so far
 

sher

Educated
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
81
I agree with you that battlemage has potential to be the best character - true unstoppable machine

That's why I've called him greatest SOLO hero. So we've agreed on this matter.

a) battlemage means no actual mage (the biggest drawback)

Not true. You can have up to 8 heroes. For standard prices you can have 2 wizards. One can be Archmage and one can be Battlemage.

b)you have to get lucky with skills on level ups (lots of useless staff)

Yes. But there are problems only if your Wizard will start with inappropriate magic skill. If skill is fine you just need to pick right skills as fast as you can and develop other skills only after that. You must be very unlucky with random to fail this process but it's possible, yes.

c) pain in the arse to level up. if he is going to be your first hero firs you have to get mage to lvl 10 and than till levl 18 or smng (until your warrior skills level up) you are pretty much playing as a lvl 10 mage

It's not a starting hero, not for beginners at least. If it's not a starting hero than he can live through wizard period with help of inherited veterans in the arena and with ability to equip warrior gear and T1-T2 spells he will gain xp like crazy rocket solo.

d) expensive - building both weapons, armor and magic schools

Not true. To act like warrior in addition he only needs T1 spells and they're not expensive and all heroes need them actually.
 

Raapys

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,960
I just finished off 2 enemies by pressing F10. Does wonders for my karma though since I burned through units like crazy. Didnt know its bad, but makes sense actually.
I tried f10 myself a few times, but always found it giving very poor result. Maybe that one's better with ranged units. However, that other auto-combat in the options menu does seem to give almost-optimal results most of the time. A few times I tried doing the battles myself and found that I lost at least as much, sometimes even more.

Anyway, autocombat seems almost mandatory. I've been doing the majority of battles myself up until now, but I can't see that working on larger maps; it'd take ages.
 

sher

Educated
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
81
I havent stopped playing since I got it... I have been playing in expert and i get massively owned no matter what i do.. but despite there only being one 'race' i feel like the game is different every time. So far anyways

Be patient it's only a matter of practice. It's normal difficulty when enemy's soldiers don't get punished with reduced HP because you are such a sissy that can't endure some challenge and learning curve. And there is no such thing as "playing race" in terms of HoMM - almost any creature in this game is playable as army unit. Your stronghold unit roaster is customizable for you to be able to adapt to any situation and path to have reliable source of troops. Only "Army of Light" path is pretty much set. Your armies and heroes are very adaptive.


OK. I'll provide some tips for expert difficulty.

Starting heroes.

Warrior can live solo at levels 7-10. Right from the start he'll need help of troops, later he can give them to second hero. Warrior has not too much options and combat methods so he is fastest to master, to learn how to play him right.

Scout can cripple advancing enemies, has very important skill Pathfinding which greatly improves your units freedom of movement and this is very important. Scout cannot fight without army. He specialize on delivering damage where it needed most to keep his army safe. He has moderate army which main purpose is to shield scout - this limits the variety of combat methods you'll need to master to play him right.

2 other heroes need more skill and knowledge to master so I will not provide tips for them.

Wounded or winded units cannot act with full effectiveness. Most of the time you will combat overwhelming forces so you'll need every chance to gain advantage. You need to know how stamina works.

Every time unit attacks or counterattacks he spends 1 stamina point. When he moves through rough terrain without knowledge of this terrain he spends additional stamina points. If he moves and attacks in same round he spends additional stamina point. Thus stamina can be depleted very fast if you're not careful. AI is very aggressive and it can be used to force him to spend stamina fast. Units without stamina will have their armor values halved - you need to avoid this by resting even under strikes because it'll be much worse if you'll pass out.

AI likes to do maximum damage and kill units like healers, archers and mages with focused ranged fire if he has such opportunity. If he can step forward and shoot your healer he'll do it instead of shooting your swordsman but if he can't reach shooting distance this turn but can shoot swordsman than he'll shoot swordsman without advancing. Most of the time but not always it's not that simple but most of the time it'll work.

Hexes are there not just for lulz. You can position your unit in such manner that only one enemy can hit it in melee because his buddies will block other directions in armored wall. And Swordsman have ability to Parry one attack in round increasing his Armor for this attack. Wounded and winded enemies deal much less damage so sometimes it's better to keep them alive and rest and heal under their weakened strikes than kill that pesky Goblin with counterattack and allow fresh Orc to take his place and crush your stupid head with morningstar strike.

Very reliable and not very sophisticated start is Warrior + 2 Swordsmen + 1 Healer. Such combination will allow you to fully shield your healer from melee in lower left corner of battlefield:

S1 W
H S2

Your Swordsman 1 (S1) will face only 1 hex, second (S2) will face 2, and you Warrior (W) will face 3, Healer (H) is fully protected from melee and can heal. But H can be targeted by shooters so you can't just hold this position while there are shooters with ammo so you need to deal with them. You can soak their ammo with armored units, burn their ammo (T1 spell), shield your healer with T1 spell, burn shooters stamina with T0 spell etc.

Described position is the last stand position, usually in the beginning you will advance with armored units to soak missiles and to prevent shooters to target your Healer. After initial clash you will slowly retreat to force opponent to move and strike to make him to spend stamina faster and become weaker. Then you'll shield your Healer with spell and your bodies to let him survive remaining ammo and heal your wounded soldiers.

Something like that, I don't want to steal your fun and reveal secrets and tricks - only basics.
 

sher

Educated
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
81
Oh. About "useless" creatures from eggs. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDXv9qk-x9M

It's not regular game by regular player so don't go mad at turn number. I don't know what locations he had generated or what events he had - it's random so do not expect this from any regular game, it's offline championship after all.
 

sher

Educated
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
81
Dragons would be a nightmare if you couldn't web them.

Indeed. Just in case: it's not me, just suitable video on youtube :)

The real hero unit in this fight is T2 Spider not T4 Phoenix, though without Phoenix he'll be in trouble too since quantity of bolts is limited and opposing force had a lot of HP and you need something to kill things. But without Spider Dragon would tear apart this army or good portion of it.
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,266
Location
Poland
Yes I can see how spiders can be useful as supports (even if webbing dragons is retarded... that it works that is) but I wrote more in general terms as a stand alone unit.
 

sher

Educated
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
81
Yes I can see how spiders can be useful as supports (even if webbing dragons is retarded... that it works that is) but I wrote more in general terms as a stand alone unit.

There are very few units who can act "stand alone" and many of them are heroes :D Even Dragon without support is easy prey (even without nasty Spider who can disable anything). Slugs, for example, are very nasty in defense - lots of HP and very poisonous, simply hit them and you will suffer. They are very good in Archmage's army because Archmage can cast loads cheap protective spells and Slug will have very high armor to survive assault and its poisonous flesh will inflict much damage. Besides you always will have slots for lower tier units and only sense to leave them unoccupied is to have smaller army for bigger exp shares. Once in Marshall's army my veteran T1 Pikeman stopped high-level T4 Phoenix and not only survived its attack but dealt good amount of damage in return (in advance actually, First Strike rules :)).
 

Bulba

Learned
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
518
spiders are ok, through basilisks are my favorite - become very powerful at high levels
 

DakaSha

Arcane
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
4,792
I havent stopped playing since I got it... I have been playing in expert and i get massively owned no matter what i do.. but despite there only being one 'race' i feel like the game is different every time. So far anyways

Be patient it's only a matter of practice. It's normal difficulty when enemy's soldiers don't get punished with reduced HP because you are such a sissy that can't endure some challenge and learning curve. And there is no such thing as "playing race" in terms of HoMM - almost any creature in this game is playable as army unit. Your stronghold unit roaster is customizable for you to be able to adapt to any situation and path to have reliable source of troops. Only "Army of Light" path is pretty much set. Your armies and heroes are very adaptive.


OK. I'll provide some tips for expert difficulty.

Starting heroes.

Warrior can live solo at levels 7-10. Right from the start he'll need help of troops, later he can give them to second hero. Warrior has not too much options and combat methods so he is fastest to master, to learn how to play him right.

Scout can cripple advancing enemies, has very important skill Pathfinding which greatly improves your units freedom of movement and this is very important. Scout cannot fight without army. He specialize on delivering damage where it needed most to keep his army safe. He has moderate army which main purpose is to shield scout - this limits the variety of combat methods you'll need to master to play him right.

2 other heroes need more skill and knowledge to master so I will not provide tips for them.

Wounded or winded units cannot act with full effectiveness. Most of the time you will combat overwhelming forces so you'll need every chance to gain advantage. You need to know how stamina works.

Every time unit attacks or counterattacks he spends 1 stamina point. When he moves through rough terrain without knowledge of this terrain he spends additional stamina points. If he moves and attacks in same round he spends additional stamina point. Thus stamina can be depleted very fast if you're not careful. AI is very aggressive and it can be used to force him to spend stamina fast. Units without stamina will have their armor values halved - you need to avoid this by resting even under strikes because it'll be much worse if you'll pass out.

AI likes to do maximum damage and kill units like healers, archers and mages with focused ranged fire if he has such opportunity. If he can step forward and shoot your healer he'll do it instead of shooting your swordsman but if he can't reach shooting distance this turn but can shoot swordsman than he'll shoot swordsman without advancing. Most of the time but not always it's not that simple but most of the time it'll work.

Hexes are there not just for lulz. You can position your unit in such manner that only one enemy can hit it in melee because his buddies will block other directions in armored wall. And Swordsman have ability to Parry one attack in round increasing his Armor for this attack. Wounded and winded enemies deal much less damage so sometimes it's better to keep them alive and rest and heal under their weakened strikes than kill that pesky Goblin with counterattack and allow fresh Orc to take his place and crush your stupid head with morningstar strike.

Very reliable and not very sophisticated start is Warrior + 2 Swordsmen + 1 Healer. Such combination will allow you to fully shield your healer from melee in lower left corner of battlefield:

S1 W
H S2

Your Swordsman 1 (S1) will face only 1 hex, second (S2) will face 2, and you Warrior (W) will face 3, Healer (H) is fully protected from melee and can heal. But H can be targeted by shooters so you can't just hold this position while there are shooters with ammo so you need to deal with them. You can soak their ammo with armored units, burn their ammo (T1 spell), shield your healer with T1 spell, burn shooters stamina with T0 spell etc.

Described position is the last stand position, usually in the beginning you will advance with armored units to soak missiles and to prevent shooters to target your Healer. After initial clash you will slowly retreat to force opponent to move and strike to make him to spend stamina faster and become weaker. Then you'll shield your Healer with spell and your bodies to let him survive remaining ammo and heal your wounded soldiers.

Something like that, I don't want to steal your fun and reveal secrets and tricks - only basics.

Yes the main issue o expert is that I cant even get past the second ring of neutral provinces because the enemy not only consists of more, eventually higher ranked, troops but also is higher leveled.

thanks for the long post. I'm gonna see if i can exploit the combat system some more. I'm not gonna play below expert
 

sher

Educated
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
81
Yes the main issue o expert is that I cant even get past the second ring of neutral provinces because the enemy not only consists of more, eventually higher ranked, troops but also is higher leveled.

Then maybe you do not gain medals for your troops. Medals are very valuable since they can be gained very early and significantly increase unit's power. Usually unit gets perks and medals based on its actions during fights. Units must be developed appropriately to their roles.

Healer must heal and the only medal is good for him - Medal of Healer (I don't know exact translation in the game). So try to heal fully with healer to gain this medal. There is T1 spell Magic Weapon that can be used to gain additional ammo for additional heals.

Swordsman is a defender. He blocks and counterattacks. Defense (melee and ranged) is most important for him. Then Parry. Then counterattack. Spell Resistance also important but not very early though Ghouls can be an issue pretty early. Then HP and stamina. Best medals for Swordsman are +2armor/+1counterattack and +1armor/+4HP/+1counterattack. Just try to counterattack only with Swordsmen to get these medals.

Use easy fights to gain medals, do not end fights if you have some strength left and allow your units to train.

Another step in raising your power is building magic guilds. Magic Weapon and Magic Armor can save you against stronger enemy if used in perfect time to survive the main assault. And shield against ranged attacks is also very useful to save your Healer or to soak more damage with your Swordsman.
 

DakaSha

Arcane
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
4,792
I managed to break through the second ring in my current game. I'm playing commander and built only militia. I was able to take the first ring fairly easily by exploiting the stamina mechanic. Then i had my sights set on a second ring province containing horses. This province is held by lizardmen.

Luckily i was able to secure some iron early on so i built 3 swordsmen and head out to the province.. They had 4 lizard men and 3 basilisks but i won this fight PURELY by stamina mechanic.. i kept pulling back like you said and by the time the basilisks were close enough they had about 0-2 stamina and i just hacked them to bits. I did however lose my awesome level 4 or 5 spear man with 3 medals (he was costing me like 22 gold a turn though so it snot to bad i guess)

Fun game. If you make a single mistake it can mean the end of a battle

edit: oh winning with only militia early game was stamina AND the fact that i rushed the wizardry school to spam the magic arrow things. I also got some events that lowered my karma but gave me shitloads of gems.. overall i think ive just been lucky lol
 

Bulba

Learned
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
518
I managed to break through the second ring in my current game. I'm playing commander and built only militia. I was able to take the first ring fairly easily by exploiting the stamina mechanic. Then i had my sights set on a second ring province containing horses. This province is held by lizardmen.

Luckily i was able to secure some iron early on so i built 3 swordsmen and head out to the province.. They had 4 lizard men and 3 basilisks but i won this fight PURELY by stamina mechanic.. i kept pulling back like you said and by the time the basilisks were close enough they had about 0-2 stamina and i just hacked them to bits. I did however lose my awesome level 4 or 5 spear man with 3 medals (he was costing me like 22 gold a turn though so it snot to bad i guess)

Fun game. If you make a single mistake it can mean the end of a battle

edit: oh winning with only militia early game was stamina AND the fact that i rushed the wizardry school to spam the magic arrow things. I also got some events that lowered my karma but gave me shitloads of gems.. overall i think ive just been lucky lol

magic arrows are shit with commando, you should either have healing or the one that gives +7 to stamina, +3 to magic rez and another turn (can't remember what it's called) or armor spell.
 

sher

Educated
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
81
Using expendables are viable starts for some time but there is a problem - no veterans. Such starts can be used to develop hero quickly but without several veterans army can be weak and there will be problems with guards of third circle and full strength guards (4+ circle with T4 units). So it's a risky path but some path definitely. Sometimes you are forced to use such starts due to lack of resources (bad starting position) so this experience will not be in vain :)
 

Ashery

Prophet
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
1,337
Here's a question that I have: How does the experience system work? I know the game gives more experience if a unit is more actively participating in a battle, but how does the game differentiate damage from, say, a hero casting pure support spells (Web, Slow, etc)? I'm also guessing that any given battle gives a total amount of experience based on the units in the group and a more active unit simply gets a larger share.
 

sher

Educated
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
81
Here's a question that I have: How does the experience system work? I know the game gives more experience if a unit is more actively participating in a battle, but how does the game differentiate damage from, say, a hero casting pure support spells (Web, Slow, etc)? I'm also guessing that any given battle gives a total amount of experience based on the units in the group and a more active unit simply gets a larger share.

Yes. there are shares. Support spells will not give XP. Finishing enemies in melee gives most XP, ranged attack gives less. Damaging spells gives no or little XP. Healing with units will give them XP too.
 

DakaSha

Arcane
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
4,792
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck this game to good.
I hope something doesnt pop up that ruins it :(

This is literally (so far) up there with all the classic games i loved. in some ways even more so.

And there i was thinking it was all just nostalgia... Decline is real and its not just in my head.
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,266
Location
Poland
I think I'm about to lose my campaign. Got invaded by another planeswalker, made two stupid mistakes early with my hero dying and I'm very far behind him. Even the liberal use of into the past isnt helping me now...
 

Machine

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
128
Location
cout<<
Playing campaign on expert and really enjoying this game so far. It's brutally hard for me, still have lots to learn. One thing I noticed so far I dont like is fairly "annoying" AI, it would make the same moves every couple of turns when I'm in "turtle mode". For example almost identical enemy hero party attacking same province over and over again, it becomes fairly grindy after a while, but hey, free exp. Other than that really great game, even difficulty is enjoyable cause its not really unfair, lots of different tactics you can try out.
 

DakaSha

Arcane
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
4,792
Im only playing the custom game. The ai is fucking retarded (from a strategic perspective) but it doesnt really matter to much in this it seems.
 

sher

Educated
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
81
Yes, AI is very aggressive so if it managed to find you early it will run like crazy to your stronghold and will stop to develop its heroes and troops, just conquering your provinces and fill them with weak guards for you to feed upon. It's repetitive. But there may be fun when several AI opponents will find you, then you'll have to think how to live with all these heroes roaming your lands. Or you'll get really bad starting position and AI will be much stronger than you - you'll have to figure out how to survive and strike back. But if you are fine and know how to play AI is not a problem but it can be lucky and get some rare guard contract for its stronghold, guard you'll not be able to defeat for a long time.
 

sher

Educated
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
81
A few useful hotkeys:

Pressing ALT on battlefield will force units to show their abilities in right panel as your mouse will hover over them - there is no need to open each unit's card, only if you want to see full info with context help and descriptions.

Pressing Ctrl+F10 will bring up autocombat menu where you can order not to use magic or sacrifices to prevent spending gems in easy fights.

All calculations can be made easily since there are no stacks or sophisticated formulas but there is hidden spread in damage (healing) score - 20% (or something like that), for more drama I suppose :D
 

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