From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[kites]

“cheese” isn’t a word I would pick, people often point to a few big offenders (or used to, with patches idk) - but the game seems heavily balanced upon you making use of all the tools at your disposal: the overly powered weapon arts, buffs, spirit ashes etc..

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

“cheese” isn’t a word I would pick, people often point to a few big offenders (or used to, with patches idk) - but the game seems heavily balanced upon you making use of all the tools at your disposal: the overly powered weapon arts, buffs, spirit ashes etc..

So, cheese. There's always a way to cheese in From games and it's okay. You can do it, or just play your way. The game cheeses often as well.

 

[Bloodeyes]

If I suck at playing games well is this basically not a good choice for me to play?

This is without question the easiest Fromsoft title to get into. If you're new to the genre use a 100% physical shield with no skill ash, level vigor to 60, get an OP ash of war for your weapon and use the spirit summons whenever you can. You'll be fine. If you see footage where it looks hard that's usually because people are putting limits on themself to improve their skill. Its the type of game that makes you want to master it, even if you don't usually care about that kind of thing.

 

[JDR13]

I spent today practicing my parrying. By the end of the day I was really torturing myself, repeatedly doing parries with the rapier. I spent over 11 hours on it. At the end of the day I went back to the buckler and fought another bell bearing hunter. I'm improving:

Why would you even want to try to parry with a rapier? Doesn't the buckler have a significantly longer parry window?

Imo, parrying is borderline broken in this game. I get why they made it difficult, but I think they went overboard with that shit.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Parry is indeed very powerful in these games I'd say. DS2 made almost all of the bosses parriable, which wasn't a thing in DS1. Parry made difficult encounters like Black Knights trivial. The game even had the courtesy of giving you an elemental damage modifier just when you face one of the BKs, who are weak to said damage type. DS2 as I said changed this by making everyone parriable but the riposte was a bit trickier. So yeah, I'm not surprised that they made it OP since DS2 made it OP as well, and a viable and powerful tactic to be used for most of the game. A lot of DS2's gameplay and even plot design elements are present in ER, which makes sense, since the dude who was the lead for DS2 had a similar role in ER together with Miyazaki.

 

[Bloodeyes]

I spent today practicing my parrying. By the end of the day I was really torturing myself, repeatedly doing parries with the rapier. I spent over 11 hours on it. At the end of the day I went back to the buckler and fought another bell bearing hunter. I'm improving:

Why would you even want to try to parry with a rapier? Doesn't the buckler have a significantly longer parry window?

Imo, parrying is borderline broken in this game. I get why they made it difficult, but I think they went overboard with that shit.

The longest parry window is carian retaliation and golden parry, followed by the buckler. The rapier has one of the shortest. I'm practicing parries with it because its really hard to do and I want to learn to parry.

Whenever I practice parrying a given enemy I start with a buckler and figure out what moves I can parry and roughly what my go signal is. Then I try with a dagger (not the parrying dagger, misericorde with parry ash) or the caestus with parry ash, or the rapier. I get hit dozens of times until I think I'm going to lose my mind. I get it semi-consistent then I go back to using the buckler and it feels a lot easier. Its just a faster way of learning.

And yeah parries are fucking bullishit. I hate them so much. This is the full 11 hours of me hating parries.

 

[Doktor Best]

I started playing the game yesterday and i am currently filtered by Margit lol. Really hard to get an attack in with my claymore, dodging is a bitch because of all those swing delays and once he has you with one of his countless combos its pretty much game over since he doesnt even let you sip your estus flasks in peace.

This boss doesnt feel like an early game boss. Maybe i am doing it wrong by not using spirit summons but fuck me i will kill my bosses like a man not some wuss who hides behind minions.

Anyways i feel like i will like Elden Ring quite a bit. Already positively surprised with the openworld exploration. Maybe this will change but i already loved Dark Souls 1 the most for its nonlinearity and this seems like Dark Souls 1 in bigger scope.

 

[Bloodeyes]

I started playing the game yesterday and i am currently filtered by Margit lol. Really hard to get an attack in with my claymore, dodging is a bitch because of all those swing delays and once he has you with one of his countless combos its pretty much game over since he doesnt even let you sip your estus flasks in peace.

I can give you a few tips for Margit. Some of this may help.

- If you're far away from him and moving to the side while you drink estus his dagger punish will often miss. If you dodge an attack and heal instead of attacking him during his recovery you can avoid the heal punish (plenty of enemies heal punish, this is the proper way). You can also stand behind the swords stuck in the ground and they stop the dagger.

- If it's possible for you to light roll you should do so as it lets you enter and exit much more safely and escape from his spinning phase 2 combo. Light roll is faster than running. Just strip naked if you need to, it helps so much in this fight. If you get pushed against a wall you have to get around to the other side of him so you have space to light roll away.

- 3 basic punishes you can do:

1. (Phase 1 and 2) He raises his staff above his head, poised to strike you. If you're too close he'll slam it down really fast and hit you. Move back and he'll charge you and hit more slowly. He hits twice but they're slow enough to dodge both pretty easily. You can then punish him and roll out.

2. (Phase 1) He leaps into the air and stabs his staff into the ground. Just move back a bit, it will miss you. Then you hit him.

3. (Phase 2) He throws two daggers then launches into the air and slams a giant glowing hammer. This can kill you or at least force a heal but if you roll into it and iframe it you can hit him. Pause for a beat then light roll the fuck away. I say pause because he follows this up with different attacks or sometimes doesn't attack. So if you get it right you can iframe his follow up attack. Keep rolling if he follows up with his spinning attack and hope you're given yourself space to avoid it. It's possible to dodge that whole combo but its hard.

 

[typical user]

Just level up your Vigor and stamina man, also get wolves spirit ashes and your main gun leveled to +2 or +3. Summon Rogier and Margitt will fold.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Bear in mind that summoning allies (not spirit ashes) gives bosses bigger HP pools.

 

[Lyric Suite]

If I suck at playing games well is this basically not a good choice for me to play?

The brilliance of the Dark Souls formula, something that has been overlooked both by the casul crowd (who are too indimindated by the difficulty) as well as the git gud crowd who always bitch that FromSoftware always gives you ways to "skip" the content (chief among them summoning other players during boss fights) which they argue cuts down on the prestige of those who finished the game "legit", as if finishing a single player game should ever constitute a competition (it's a single player game, who cares), is that both don't actually understand why those games are so difficult.

Both groups make the assumption that the games are difficult for the sake of being difficult, which is actually not the case at all (at least not in principle, there's a few exception here and there). The way i see it, the games are hard because FromSoftware wish people to enjoy themselves while playing them. At face value this seems like a contradiction but look at it this way. The "fun" part in any game is always the gameplay elements, and the Dark Souils games are hard not because those elements are designed in a way to stress your physical abilities, they are hard because of the sheer number of gameplay bits that are being thrown your way.

This can at first overwhelm anyone who is unfamiliar with their formula but what this means essentially is that almost everybody can eventually overcome all the obstacles the game puts in your way given enough time, because it's all a matter of figuring out what the game is actually throwing you at you and practice against it.

The end result of this is that those games always seem to be impossible at first but then suddenly become more than doable after which follows a very pleasurable sense of accomplishment (and a feeling of regret you actually got good at the game and won't ever find it so hard anymore, heh). It's not a question of honing your twitch abilities to the point you can make one in a million shots that you only managed to do out of sheer luck and may not be able to do again, which is often how some games do difficulty. You won because you figured out the game, learned the mechanics and overcame all the obstacles through practice and self-improvement. And if there is any element that is genuinely "unfair" it's usually always optional, whether it's an hidden boss you don't need to kill to finish the game or some boss moves that you can override with a particular item, and one of the reasons From does this is not because they want to go "easy" on the casuls but because they expect you to play the game many times. So if a certain boss is giving you trouble to the point you feel you can no longer progress in the game you can decide to get somebody to help you which is ok since you can always do the boss in another playthrough. This also applies to the cryptic story and secrets, which you are not supposed to understand rightaway but which are there to be discovered through out different playthroughs. Every time you replay one of those games you always discover things you missed the first time around, which extends their longevity.

Basically, the games are predicated on the idea you have to git gud to play them, but they are not at all designed in a way that only a few can overcome their difficulty and you are always given ways to get past certain content if you don't feel getting good at that particular time (but the challenge is always there if you decide to replay the game).

 

[Lyric Suite]

Here's an example of what i mean:



When i first met this guy it basically seemed impossible to do, and in fact you are not supposed to be able to do him, but with enough practice i got good enough to actually kill him right in the tutorial, and though i have a good deal of experience having played all the previous Dark Souls games i wouldn't consider myself to be a "pro" (i'm not even close to being as good as NJClaw right in this forum), but it doesn't matter because if you look at this fight you'll notice there's nothing in there that requires super human twitch abilities or the like. It's just a matter of figuring out how this guy worked, and it's something you can do with pretty much every enemy or boss in the game.

Basically, the game isn't trying to be hard for the sake of it, it just doesn't handhold or treat the player like an idiot, and if you stop undermining yourself and actually try to rise up to the challenge, you can.

 

[Doktor Best]

I started playing the game yesterday and i am currently filtered by Margit lol. Really hard to get an attack in with my claymore, dodging is a bitch because of all those swing delays and once he has you with one of his countless combos its pretty much game over since he doesnt even let you sip your estus flasks in peace.

I can give you a few tips for Margit. Some of this may help.

- If you're far away from him and moving to the side while you drink estus his dagger punish will often miss. If you dodge an attack and heal instead of attacking him during his recovery you can avoid the heal punish (plenty of enemies heal punish, this is the proper way). You can also stand behind the swords stuck in the ground and they stop the dagger.

- If it's possible for you to light roll you should do so as it lets you enter and exit much more safely and escape from his spinning phase 2 combo. Light roll is faster than running. Just strip naked if you need to, it helps so much in this fight. If you get pushed against a wall you have to get around to the other side of him so you have space to light roll away.

- 3 basic punishes you can do:

1. (Phase 1 and 2) He raises his staff above his head, poised to strike you. If you're too close he'll slam it down really fast and hit you. Move back and he'll charge you and hit more slowly. He hits twice but they're slow enough to dodge both pretty easily. You can then punish him and roll out.

2. (Phase 1) He leaps into the air and stabs his staff into the ground. Just move back a bit, it will miss you. Then you hit him.

3. (Phase 2) He throws two daggers then launches into the air and slams a giant glowing hammer. This can kill you or at least force a heal but if you roll into it and iframe it you can hit him. Pause for a beat then light roll the fuck away. I say pause because he follows this up with different attacks or sometimes doesn't attack. So if you get it right you can iframe his follow up attack. Keep rolling if he follows up with his spinning attack and hope you're given yourself space to avoid it. It's possible to dodge that whole combo but its hard.

Just level up your Vigor and stamina man, also get wolves spirit ashes and your main gun leveled to +2 or +3. Summon Rogier and Margitt will fold.

Bear in mind that summoning allies (not spirit ashes) gives bosses bigger HP pools.

Well like i said i dislike summons be it spirit summons or npc/player summons and i will only consider doing it if its part of a questchain i would like to do.

So i did the only reasonable thing, stripped down naked and killed the boss after three more tries. The light roll tip did it for me. Thanks Bloodeyes

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Light rolls are a good tip for any souls game. Arguably, dodging is more beneficial than blocking, and it always has been the case.

 

[kites]

Light rolls are a good tip for any souls game. Arguably, dodging is more beneficial than blocking, and it always has been the case.

As far as I remember, ER is pretty generous regarding that. Even a medium load (under 70% equipped) has the same amount of iframes and recovery time as being totally stripped down

 

[JDR13]

Yeah, you're good as long as you're at medium load.

As far as Margit is concerned, it can be a tough fight if you go there too soon. If you just started playing yesterday, chances are you were underleveled for a new player.

 

[NJClaw]

Post your outfits

Its a shame that Exile knight set is so battered and full of holes, one of the best looking armors in game.

The greathelm instantly elevates any outfit to a 10.

I just started a new playthrough and the Prisoner's starting armor looks great with the Sword of St Trina and a pair of boobs.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I started playing the game yesterday and i am currently filtered by Margit lol.

Explore more of Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula, then return once you've become bored with the Open World and its mini-dungeons (or have explored everything in these areas).

 

[Lyric Suite]

I started playing the game yesterday and i am currently filtered by Margit lol.

It's completely normal. Margaret gave me a ton of trouble too the first time. Don't listen to the try hards he is a legitimely difficult boss because his combos are wayward and it's troublesome to wrap your head around them at first. He has a bad rap only because it's easy to get massively overlevelled when you get to him both the first and second time you meet him but if you get there earily enough he can be quite tricky. There's also an item that allows you to basically bypass his first phase so i think From expected him to be hard and didn't count on people grinding Limegrave so much that by the time most people get to him he becomes a joke.

As for his second encounter, he seems to be balanced for extremely low levels. I got there as very undeleveled because i intentionally kept myself within a certain range, which you can see from my small health bar, and he still felt way too frail, and died only after the third try if i remember, hence why the fight was so sloppy as i hadn't figured out how he worked, i was just starting but then i killed him:



One problem with the open world and so much content being optional is that From had no way to know how to balance some bosses properly.

 

[Doktor Best]

Yeah Margit is basically a hint delivered with a sledgehammer that you should get to exploring the open world.

Anyways after i killed Margit i explored a bit of Stormveil Castle. What a fucking beautiful and well designed dungeon. Probably my favorite Fromsoft content since Bloodborne.

 

[cretin]

Besides, if Elden Ring bosses were as slow as they were in Dark Souls people would bitch the game was too easy and dumped down. There's no way they can win it seems.

If an ER player tried to play DS1 they would be challenged despite being "trained" on much faster enemies, because the PC in DS1 is also much slower. To me its a gross misconception that the ER bosses are simply faster and more aggressive to give the players more challenge, because the other side of the coin is what the player can do and thats become just as ridiculous. DS1 has action economy because almost everything costs a lot of stamina and the recovery frames for even the fastest actions are quite large; ER doesn't really have an action economy by comparison, the game is actually about ashes, rolling on reaction and timing blue and red bar refills.

What I'm trying to get at, is this attitude that From has no choice because of player experience seems wrong -- they have put themselves into a corner with nowhere to go but eventually just creating bosses that break established rules (malenia) and probably eventually in DLCs bosses that just literally cheat, and they have put themselves there because of giving into the desire to make their games as accessible as possible. Which is what ER is - despite admittedly having some of the hardest bosses of the series - the most accessible (casual) title from FS yet. Fast PC, fast actions, fast recovery, fast weapons, low TTK and so on. Which, incidentally, is also why the PVP is as shit as it is: so that new players can kill experienced players with little to no time in learning mechanical skills as long they pick from any of number of broken builds. And thats not just my opinion, thats an opinion shared by just about every notable DS3 competitive sperg.

 

[Child of Malkav]

because the other side of the coin is what the player can do and thats become just as ridiculous

If the player doesn't do anything ridiculous, then it becomes an exercise in frustration. If the player does do anything ridiculous, then it barely feels like a victory. That's the problem. Two extremes and no in betweens.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Well, one of the REAL reasons the game is faster is because of Dark Souls 3, which was basically a Bloodborne total conversion and Elden Ring still carries some of the Bloodborne lifeline DS3 inherited because it ran on the same engine as Bloodborne and FromSoftware were too lazy to change it or rewrite it. Hell, as some people pointed out DS3 even had some of the same assests as Bloodborne.

I agree about crap like ashes turning PVP into a clusterfuck. I was indifferent about them for singleplayer though perhaps the fact i never used them says something about that as well.

But when it comes to the butterfly combos and other shenanigans From has come up with to ramp up the difficutly i don't have any strong feelings against them. Dark Souls already covered a vast ground in terms of tricks and tactics to trip up the player embebbed in the movesets of enemies and bosses and i'm not sure what else is there they can do to make it harder. My only reservation is that i think it was a bad idea to extend the butterfly shit to regular enemies as well. I think that stuff should have remained within the perview of bosses, or at least a specific sub-category of them. I did feel it was getting obnoxious where even regular mooks started doing endless combos and shit like that, but then again "regular" mooks is a relative term in Elden Ring given the ctrl c / ctrl v approach to monster placement this game has.

 

[Lyric Suite]

BTW, was there anything major in the patches besides the PvP arena or was it all just "balance" changes? Any changes in how quest work, new items or spells or anything like that?

 

[Dr1f7]

when u find the elden ring

Spoiler

lmao idk i dont play this game