From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Zurbo]

Rest of the game is either open world slop, or slog like this castle

While it has some irritating enemies, Stormveil Castle is one of the best locations From has made. In Elden Ring only the Capital is similarly good.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I've learned from your videos that: 1. It is never about one dodge. 2. Raise your reaction guard and be prepared to dodge again and again after the first strike until there's a clear signal of a standstill.

One thing for me is how clever the design is. It just seem it would take some next level spatial IQ or understanding to come up with so many ways to always stay "ahead" of the player.

3. You can take the risk of parrying or interrupting enemy combo by your own hit, but if in doubt, revert to item 2

Of course, part of the reason i do that is that my parry-fu is not on the same level as my roll-fu, and the reason for that is kinda funny. Back in the day when i started playing Dark Souls for the first time, i read some comments how the last boss was made super easy with parry, so being new and clueless i got into the idea that parry would just trivalize the game and that the real "challenge" was learning how to dodge. Because of this assumption i never actually learned how to parry until i started getting into PvP in DS2, specifically in the duel area on the bridge in Iron Keep. But despite finally learning how to parry instinctively rolling is always my first choice.

 

[Nikanuur]

Nice to read about a genuine interest in a game. And btw your roll-fu is a pretty impressive at any rate.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

This is what I don't like about DS/ER/DS games and why I don't play them. Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel that hardly any mini-boss or boss fights can be passed without dying several times first in order to learn what's what. That being said, I have respect for people who play DS/ER/DS games and succeed. Your videos, in particular, are great to watch. I've learned from your videos that: 1. It is never about one dodge. 2. Raise your reaction guard and be prepared to dodge again and again after the first strike until there's a clear signal of a standstill. 3. You can take the risk of parrying or interrupting enemy combo by your own hit, but if in doubt, revert to item 2
Never understood this until now. Awesome, thanks!

Even in my original playthrough of Demon's Souls, I beat three-fourths of the level bosses on the first try; though of course the bosses in Demon's Souls were intentionally somewhat easy as compensation for the player having to restart the level after each death, whereas the introduction of the bonfire system in Dark Souls permitted an increase in boss difficulty. Elden Ring, as discussed extensively in this thread, offers various means of alleviating the difficulty, principally via ash summons and weapons skills, and certainly with those the player should be able to defeat most bosses on the first try, keeping in mind that Elden Ring has myriad dungeon bosses and many bosses out in the Open World, with only a relatively small portion comparable to the bosses of earlier Souls games.

 

[SerratedBiz]

Even in my original playthrough of Demon's Souls, I beat three-fourths of the level bosses on the first try;

Your post is sound but I call bullshit on this. No one one-shot their way through the bosses of Demon's Souls on their first playthrough, if that's what you're saying and I didn't misunderstand you. Unless your original playthrough of DeS happened after extensive experience with other Souls games, that's a load of BS.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I died to Pinwheel on my first DS1 playthrough lmao. That says it all i guess.

Of course, that came after dying 20 times to the wheel skellies so Pinwheel still felt like a push over compared to that. I still have lingering PTSD from the wheel skellies.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Chop chop, content being sliced away!



According to fextra i should hit Nokron now but fuck that i'm going where the bell bearings are lmao. Altus is lower level anyway so why hit Nokron now.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Your post is sound but I call bullshit on this. No one one-shot their way through the bosses of Demon's Souls on their first playthrough, if that's what you're saying and I didn't misunderstand you. Unless your original playthrough of DeS happened after extensive experience with other Souls games, that's a load of BS.

Aside from Old King Allant and the Dragon, not sure which level bosses in Demon's Souls you expect the player to die at least once to (though, to be sure, I died to more than two bosses in my first playthrough; several of the others are a significant danger).

 

[Lyric Suite]

Is the rest of Demon Souls that easy also? Because that's a bit of a contradiction to say boss design that requires you to die over and over is "bad" but have no problem with level design where you have to die over and over again to learn how to get through. How is that any different.

 

[NJClaw]

Your post is sound but I call bullshit on this. No one one-shot their way through the bosses of Demon's Souls on their first playthrough, if that's what you're saying and I didn't misunderstand you. Unless your original playthrough of DeS happened after extensive experience with other Souls games, that's a load of BS.

Aside from Old King Allant and the Dragon, not sure which level bosses in Demon's Souls you expect the player to die at least once to (though, to be sure, I died to more than two bosses in my first playthrough; several of the others are a significant danger).

I'd expect most people to die to the Flamelurker and Penetrator. Old King Allant and the Maneater are other great candidates. I can see all of the others getting beaten on a first try even without "extensive experience with other Souls games".

 

[baba is you]

Is the rest of Demon Souls that easy also? Because that's a bit of a contradiction to say boss design that requires you to die over and over is "bad" but have no problem with level design where you have to die over and over again to learn how to get through. How is that any different.

I think Demon's Souls is fairly easy in terms of action. It's the dungeon design that's hard, and From has made dungeon design easier and boss design harder as the series has progressed.
For example, Demon's Souls lose 50% of their health and become souls form after dying in their Human Form.

If you consistently die in a particular dungeon (meaning Human Form), the difficulty of that dungeon will increase. There are ways to reduce the penalty, but if you don't realize this and keep dying, you'll end up in a weird situation where the difficulty keeps increasing.

As an aside, I think the hardest dungeon in any From Software game is Shadow Tower, the game as a whole is just too punishing.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Ho for fuck's sake i forgot about Alexander Liurnia's step. I went to check and he isn't there anymore. Guess he already moved to Mt Gelmir the second i stepped into Altus not that it matters but this is bullshit how in the hell is one supposed to ever see that step without knowing in advance that it exists?

Likely snek girl is also near Millicent now instead of outside the Grand Lift. If i go to Volcano Manor now, i have a feeling i'll also miss the step with Patches where he throws you down the cliff or whatever. Just scratching my head at those kind of steps that you will ALWAYS miss unless you know they exist before hand. The Patches one i figured i missed because i met the snek girl by taking the Grand Lift. This time i went through the tunnel first and figured maybe that's how they intended you to do it, but nope, they moved the girl there meaning they intentionally want you to miss that step.

[EDIT] I just checked and apparently you have to do one recusant quest to make Patches appear in Volcano Manor. I'm gonna try go there through the snek girl, talk to Tanish, but not do any of the recustant stuff and see if the Patches trap event is still there.

 

[Nikanuur]

This is what I don't like about DS/ER/DS games and why I don't play them. Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel that hardly any mini-boss or boss fights can be passed without dying several times first in order to learn what's what. That being said, I have respect for people who play DS/ER/DS games and succeed. Your videos, in particular, are great to watch. I've learned from your videos that: 1. It is never about one dodge. 2. Raise your reaction guard and be prepared to dodge again and again after the first strike until there's a clear signal of a standstill. 3. You can take the risk of parrying or interrupting enemy combo by your own hit, but if in doubt, revert to item 2
Never understood this until now. Awesome, thanks!

Even in my original playthrough of Demon's Souls, I beat three-fourths of the level bosses on the first try; though of course the bosses in Demon's Souls were intentionally somewhat easy as compensation for the player having to restart the level after each death, whereas the introduction of the bonfire system in Dark Souls permitted an increase in boss difficulty. Elden Ring, as discussed extensively in this thread, offers various means of alleviating the difficulty, principally via ash summons and weapons skills, and certainly with those the player should be able to defeat most bosses on the first try, keeping in mind that Elden Ring has myriad dungeon bosses and many bosses out in the Open World, with only a relatively small portion comparable to the bosses of earlier Souls games.

I wonder if the said would really be the case for the majority of players, even the ones equipped with above average reflexes. Still, I reckon you are owed respect for such feats. Also, I am glad to hear that Elden Rings alegedly took some steps towards see-for-the-first-time-and-conquer-all-the-same.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

If you don't do the Patches Volcano Manor "invitation", his quest will still progress normally. I took the invitation from Zorayas and managed to complete both her quest and Patches'. Zorayas' quests requires you to meet the Blackguard for the pendant though.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I know, that's what i did on my first playthrough, but this time i wanted to see the event. I'm also pondering at those intentionally missable steps. I'm starting to think they might just be surprises for people who do things differently. Like the one with Alexander in Liurnia. The only way anybody would find him there naturally would be to kill Radahn before doing Liurnia, which some people might do. If you kill Radahn after Liurnia there's zero chances you'd see that encounter as why would anyone go back to that specific spot? 99% of people would just move on to Altus or Nokron.

The one with Patches is less clear to me, especially since now i know that if you don't go through the Grand Lift the game will just relocate the snake girl for you so it's like, you aren't meant to avoid her, but if you do any of the Manor quests, you miss out on the Patches encounter? I don't get the logic. Mybe it's for people who didn't go through the Rya's quest so she won't be there?

 

[Lyric Suite]

So i tried it, went to Volcano Manor, talked to Tanith, and Patches spawned there.

So basically only way i can see the Patches event is to avoid Rya. Nice quest design From.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Jeez i almost got slaughtered because i couldn't lock on the Misbegotten after killing the Perfumer:



But the wierdest shit happens at the end, where i give him what i think is the killing blow, i go to reach for some water and as soon i see he isn't dead i scurry back to kill him but he dies by himself lmao. How.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Ho for fuck's sake i forgot about Alexander Liurnia's step. I went to check and he isn't there anymore. Guess he already moved to Mt Gelmir the second i stepped into Altus not that it matters but this is bullshit how in the hell is one supposed to ever see that step without knowing in advance that it exists?

I have never encountered him there despite having completed his questline several times. I wasn't even sure it was real tbh.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Apparently if you so much as step in Altus he moves in Mt Gelmir. There is no possible way to see that encounter naturally (without meta knowledge of its existance) unless you happen to do Radahn before Liurnia. Just bad design for even if those steps are "extras" for people that do things differently one of my biggest issues with the game is that it is so large and so long winged that sometimes too much time goes by without ever seeing an NPC again, and on top of that they added steps that are impossible to see unless you know about them? A bit much IMHO.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Anyway, this guy is funny. One unique boss fight and it's nestled into some random dungeon:



All i remember from my first playthrough is that if you let him cast you are fucked, so this time i made sure he didn't get the chance to do anything. Funny how Square Off can break the stance of huge dragons or giants in two hits but this guy didn't flinch even after several hits.

I then made it into the invisible sort and instantly got my ass creamed three times in a row and i didn't even get to hit him once. I always wondered if it was possible to do it without torch and i'm starting to think it isn't, unless you use some crazy weapon art at which i can just dragon breath the place until he dies at that point.

I'll make a few more attempts but if i can't kill him i'll just cheese it with spells. I mean it might have been a fun challenge but that grab attack it's just too much.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Hahahaha, praise the weapon art and the favorable RNG!

 

[SerratedBiz]

Aside from Old King Allant and the Dragon, not sure which level bosses in Demon's Souls you expect the player to die at least once to (though, to be sure, I died to more than two bosses in my first playthrough; several of the others are a significant danger).

I'd expect most people to die to the Flamelurker and Penetrator. Old King Allant and the Maneater are other great candidates. I can see all of the others getting beaten on a first try even without "extensive experience with other Souls games".

It reads to me like the boomers I meet every day that like to brag about benching 500 and leg pressing 1600 in their high school days. I don't buy it, I don't care how many times you say it, no matter how much you try to convince me. But keep at it, I'm sure someone's impressed.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I'd expect most people to die to the Flamelurker and Penetrator. Old King Allant and the Maneater are other great candidates. I can see all of the others getting beaten on a first try even without "extensive experience with other Souls games".

If you expect people to die to four level bosses in Demon's Souls, that doesn't stand in contradiction to my post about beating 12 out of 16 level bosses on the first try.

Though I did defeat Penetrator (with assistance from Biorr of the Twin Fangs) and Flamelurker on my first try, and would have beaten Maneater if not for falling off that walkway.

I think Demon's Souls is fairly easy in terms of action. It's the dungeon design that's hard, and From has made dungeon design easier and boss design harder as the series has progressed.
For example, Demon's Souls lose 50% of their health and become souls form after dying in their Human Form.

If you consistently die in a particular dungeon (meaning Human Form), the difficulty of that dungeon will increase. There are ways to reduce the penalty, but if you don't realize this and keep dying, you'll end up in a weird situation where the difficulty keeps increasing.

You might be confusing Demon's Souls with Dark Souls II. The former starts you off with a 50% health penalty in Level 1-1, after having died in the tutorial and arisen in the Nexus, but you can quickly obtain the Cling Ring that halves the health penalty from being in Soul Form, and in any case this penalty does not increase from further deaths. Dark Souls II, however, has a small 5% penalty from dying that is applied cumulatively with each death, up to a maximum of 50%, but health is fully restored any time you restore your humanity, and the health penalty from later deaths then restarts at 5% from your maximum health.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I'd expect most people to die to the Flamelurker and Penetrator. Old King Allant and the Maneater are other great candidates. I can see all of the others getting beaten on a first try even without "extensive experience with other Souls games".

If you expect people to die to four level bosses in Demon's Souls, that doesn't stand in contradiction to my post about beating 12 out of 16 level bosses on the first try.

Though I did defeat Penetrator (with assistance from Biorr of the Twin Fangs) and Flamelurker on my first try, and would have beaten Maneater if not for falling off that walkway.

I think Demon's Souls is fairly easy in terms of action. It's the dungeon design that's hard, and From has made dungeon design easier and boss design harder as the series has progressed.
For example, Demon's Souls lose 50% of their health and become souls form after dying in their Human Form.

If you consistently die in a particular dungeon (meaning Human Form), the difficulty of that dungeon will increase. There are ways to reduce the penalty, but if you don't realize this and keep dying, you'll end up in a weird situation where the difficulty keeps increasing.

You might be confusing Demon's Souls with Dark Souls II. The former starts you off with a 50% health penalty in Level 1-1, after having died in the tutorial and arisen in the Nexus, but you can quickly obtain the Cling Ring that halves the health penalty from being in Soul Form, and in any case this penalty does not increase from further deaths. Dark Souls II, however, has a small 5% penalty from dying that is applied cumulatively with each death, up to a maximum of 50%, but health is fully restored any time you restore your humanity, and the health penalty from later deaths then restarts at 5% from your maximum health.

No he's talking about shifts in world tendency.

 

[baba is you]

I think Demon's Souls is fairly easy in terms of action. It's the dungeon design that's hard, and From has made dungeon design easier and boss design harder as the series has progressed.
For example, Demon's Souls lose 50% of their health and become souls form after dying in their Human Form.

If you consistently die in a particular dungeon (meaning Human Form), the difficulty of that dungeon will increase. There are ways to reduce the penalty, but if you don't realize this and keep dying, you'll end up in a weird situation where the difficulty keeps increasing.

You might be confusing Demon's Souls with Dark Souls II. The former starts you off with a 50% health penalty in Level 1-1, after having died in the tutorial and arisen in the Nexus, but you can quickly obtain the Cling Ring that halves the health penalty from being in Soul Form, and in any case this penalty does not increase from further deaths. Dark Souls II, however, has a small 5% penalty from dying that is applied cumulatively with each death, up to a maximum of 50%, but health is fully restored any time you restore your humanity, and the health penalty from later deaths then restarts at 5% from your maximum health.

Oh, yes, Dark Souls 2 did have that penalty. What I meant was that in Demon's Souls, if a player dies in a certain dungeon while in human form, it affects the world's tendency.
If a player died in human form, they would accumulate a black tendency, which would increase the damage and health of enemies and introduce new enemies.

There's actually a simple workaround, but I don't want to write it down because I think Lyric Suite will play Demon's Souls later, and knowing the workaround would miss the fun.