From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Caim]

Vaati's vids are mostly retarded fanfiction. It's obnoxious.

Reminder that 4chan once trolled him by posting a fake translation of lore on Reddit, which Vaati blindly copied into a video he deleted when he found out he'd been had.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Vaati's vids are mostly retarded fanfiction. It's obnoxious.

Reminder that 4chan once trolled him by posting a fake translation of lore on Reddit, which Vaati blindly copied into a video he deleted when he found out he'd been had.

Yeah but FS translations are often pretty damn bad, and that's why his videos often suck (because he relies on the often sketchy or inaccurate tls). So it's part of the course with him.

 

[cvv]

Yeah but FS translations are often pretty damn bad

Yeah the moment I saw "Long-arm Centipede Giraffe" I knew someone fucked up

 

[Child of Malkav]

Reminder that 4chan once trolled him by posting a fake translation of lore on Reddit, which Vaati blindly copied into a video he deleted when he found out he'd been had.

Really? Whoa that's cool.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

A helpful resource https://shetanislair.com/en/posts/lost-in-translation-dark-souls-one

 

[perfectslumbers]

A helpful resource https://shetanislair.com/en/posts/lost-in-translation-dark-souls-one

If anything this proves how well Dark Souls is translated, although I'm curious what the Japanese subtitles in the game is based off of. Whether it's the original text that was given to frognation or a translation of what frognation does, since the Souls games and Elden Ring have no Japanese audio

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

A helpful resource https://shetanislair.com/en/posts/lost-in-translation-dark-souls-one

If anything this proves how well Dark Souls is translated, although I'm curious what the Japanese subtitles in the game is based off of. Whether it's the original text that was given to frognation or a translation of what frognation does, since the Souls games and Elden Ring have no Japanese audio

The games are written in japanese, but then translated in Japan. I don't know about the Souls series, but Elden Ring was translated in Japan by people whose first language is english, and had a less than ideal understanding of japanese. This led to confusion because at several points the official translations heavily change the implications of the story and the characters. And that's a bad thing when even in japanese these are blurry at best.

 

[Ravielsk]

Demon's Souls is even more coherent in terms of narrative than Dark Souls. It's only after the success of Dark Souls that FromSoft became quite lazy in regard to world-building.

Yes, but its painfully unfinished. Them not being able to finish all the archstones caused some pretty heavy rewrites that ultimately made a mess of the timeline and completely obscured the fact that the monumental is bullshitting you from start to finish.

 

[Nathir]

They put a lot of effort into trying to make the lore/story look interesting and relevant. Those overdesigned bosses and cutscenes must take up a huge chunk of the game's budget. The problems are the result of an azn mindset that doesn't value regularity and consistency as much as the Western mindset does.

Random wacky things that come out of left field are totally "normal" for azns. So are wild and abrupt tonal shifts.

Random wacky things like?

 

[Nathir]

The writers

The only Souls game that was narrative wise finished was Dark Souls 1. Every other game is either unfinished or cobbled together mess of multiple contradictory ideas. Pretending there is an actual through line connecting all three is just pure retardation. FFS Dark Souls 2 was literary not even made by Miyazaki and had a huge make over mid development, literary nothing from that game should be treated as even remotely canon. Dark Souls 3 was literary a whole different game during development, the released product is more like a abridged version of that.

Elden Ring is no different in this regard. The cut content clearly hints at last minute reshuffles of major narrative points that ultimately, as per usual with From software, resulted in a mess of a story where you either ignore chunks of it or pretend that its supposed to be "2deep4you" lore that only Miyazaki can explain (spoiler alert: He cannot because its mostly spur of the moment bullshit)

What does cut content have to do with the finished game? Why is the story a mess?

 

[Ravielsk]

What does cut content have to do with the finished game? Why is the story a mess?

Because in development, especially when making open world titles, you cannot make the game level by level sequentially. You need to have the whole thing planned out in advance before you sit your team down to make a game. So when making level one you already have to be thinking about how it will slot in with level 10 even though you are nowhere near making that level. Same goes for scripting and writing, you need to code and write level one in a way that does not conflict with future additions into the game.
You do this because once you inevitably have to change and cut some things for whatever reason you want to maintain coherency of both the game and the story.

Problem is that Souls games after DS1 have not been doing this whatsoever. Meaning that say DS3 was developed with the ability to make bonfires and alter the state of levels through something called rituals but then the rituals and bonfire making were cut and so was everything pertaining to them but the game has already been made mostly with those mechanics and story beats in mind and nobody bothered to patch up those holes. The result in an incomprehensible story that may just as well not exist because its essentially skipping around like a broken record.

Bloodborne is even worse as that game had massive changes done just a few months before release and most were for the worse. For example in the released game the entire area of Old Yharnam and old hunter Djura make absolutely no sense. Because the entire point of that area is to signal to the player that "the beasts are people". Problem is that literary no one is hiding this or pretending to not know this in the released product. Why? Well because the original plan was that the city would become gradually more beast infested as the game went(aka the moon presence got closer) and discovering the secret behind the curse of the beast was meant to be a major chunk of the story. But then it and all the directly related NPCs were cut but everything else was more or less untouched. The result is a game that has to pretend to not know what is real and what is a dream because that is the only way for things to even pretend to make sense.

 

[cvv]

Good point about beastification in BB, Ravielsk.

Not convinced about bonfires in DS3. I could sit down for 30 minutes and rearrange the bonfires in a way that'd be a noticeable improvement over the OG (in fact people have done this in various mods, it's not that hard).
This one has nothing to do with planning and cutting, it's some sort of listlessness or negligence or not-giving-a-fuckiness or some such. The entire game oozes this indifference, this by-the-numbers mindset.

 

[Ravielsk]

Not convinced about bonfires in DS3. I could sit down for 30 minutes and rearrange the bonfires in a way that'd be a noticeable improvement over the OG (in fact people have done this in various mods, it's not that hard).

Bonfires placing as a mechanic is just the tip of the iceberg which we sadly do not know the full extent of. The main issue is that in combination with the rituals mechanic(which was mostly a sort of time travel mechanic) bonfires add major lore implications about the state of the world and the players role in it. Whether it would make the game better or worse is a whole other discussion which I am not looking to start.

At the very least I would assume that it would certainly tie up most of the lose narrative ends that compose DS3(such the angelic knights, lothric civil war, the twin princess, Oceiros and well a lot more).

 

[Silva]

The result in an incomprehensible story that may just as well not exist because

Even with all the problems, the closure DS3 gives the series is pretty comprehensible. Allfather fucked up leaving the world in shambles and now there's nothing to do except letting the lights go out.

The result is a game that has to pretend to not know what is real and what is a dream because that is the only way for things to even pretend to make sense.

Intended or not, it perfectly captures the Lovecraftian mythos, is probably better than whatever they had in mind originally, and what makes Bloodborne a masterpiece.

 

[Skinwalker]

Bonfires placing as a mechanic is just the tip of the iceberg which we sadly do not know the full extent of. The main issue is that in combination with the rituals mechanic(which was mostly a sort of time travel mechanic) bonfires adds major lore implications about the state of the world and the players role in it. Whether it would make the game better or worse is a whole other discussion which I am not looking to start.

Can you elaborate?

 

[Ravielsk]

Can you elaborate?

Not a whole lot but I will try. Based on what Lance McDonald uncovered the game was supposed to have ritual mechanics that would alter the skybox of the level to change the state of the world. Ranging from different time of day to basically summoning a swarm of dragons. All of this seems to have been in some way connected with the bonfire mechanic that would have used enemies as sort of tributes or gates for these altered states. Some of it might have been wholly meant for PVP or simple aesthetic purposes and some may have been just developers experimenting but it was clearly meant to be a core part of the game otherwise they would not have bothered highlighting it in the gameplay reveal trailer and to use it internally in presentations.

I believe that it was supposed to be a time travel mechanic of sorts for three reasons:
A. They reused that exact concept in the Ringed city DLC which is what From tends to do with cut content
B. There is a screenshot from an early build where the unused ceremony dragon skybox is in full effect and the dancer of boreal valley is present as a friendly NPC

The image in question

C. This is exactly how its used with Untended Graves area which is just the starting area but with a different time of day flag triggered and canonically acts as your character traveling back in time. As can be seen from the dialog with the hand maiden.

The dialog in question

Oh thou'rt... Oh, no, 'tisn't anything Ashen One. <--- her recognising the player
I am but a humble handmaiden of the shrine.
Weapons, armor, trinkets, and spells...
I've lots of little things to ease the burden of a weary traveller.
...And yes, I'm Undead, too, but not so charitable as to give my goods away.
Ashen One, fetch souls, and bring them to me.
As is thy wont, no?"

Put all together with all the lose and seemingly out of nowhere things in the game (angelic knights, lothric civil war, the twin princess, Oceiros, Profaned capital etc.) its kind of obvious that these things were meant to be far more spread out perhaps mainly through different eras as that would neatly give the developers space to flesh them out without needing to make whole new levels.

 

[janior]

so why did they make this game open world?

 

[cvv]

so why did they make this game open world?

Because muh open world and also

 

[HeatEXTEND]

so why did they make this game open world?

They wanted to give it a shot? And wider appeal obviously.

 

[Nathir]

so why did they make this game open world?

Because they felt like it.

 

[Child of Malkav]

so why did they make this game open world?

Because they're creatively bankrupt. Many such cases. See Bethesda and Ubisoft.

 

[Old Hans]

Yes, but its painfully unfinished.

I disagree. Demon souls is a very tight and well put together game. There isn't a single area that makes you think "oh boy they must have run out of time" PLUS it's DNA is so much closer to King's Field compared to the later games AND the swamp level is awesome

 

[Arryosha]

Dark Souls or Elden Ring? I haven't played any souls games, but always kinda wanted to try one and figured I'd go for Dark Souls since people seem most passionate about it. But is Elden Ring just a better souls game?

 

[Spike]

Dark Souls or Elden Ring? I haven't played any souls games, but always kinda wanted to try one and figured I'd go for Dark Souls since people seem most passionate about it. But is Elden Ring just a better souls game?

I would say to play them in release order. Demons Souls (if you can emulate on PS3 or have an old PS3, play the PS3 one over PS5 but if you only have access to PS5 then that is fine), Dark Souls, Dark Souls II: Scholar of the First Sin, Bloodborne or Dark Souls III (I actually played Dark Souls 3 before Bloodborne even though it was released after), Sekiro, and now Elden Ring.

 

[Silverfish]

But is Elden Ring just a better souls game?

Depends on what you want. Demon's Souls and Bloodborne have the most engaging stories, Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring are probably the best in terms of pure combat, Dark Souls 2 has insane longevity and Dark Souls is a masterclass of presentation.