From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Cat Headed Eagle]

So far, my only real complaint about ER's combat is the fact that bosses can throw you to the void but you can't. When fighting the Iron Golem in DS1, I almost always try to go with the making him fall strategy.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Personally, I thought souls combat was changing too much for the worse because I hate rolling invincibility, long attack delays with instant swings, no poise for thee but poise for me, wacky combo strings, cutscenes in the middle of a fight, arenas covered in AOE and always being blinded by particle / lighting effects.

Most of this is due to FromSoft refusal to partition the gameplay with traditional difficulty options.

Therefore they have to constantly up the ante coz people are actually getting gud. My first soulslike was DS1 and I was sweating blood trying to stumble through it. Now going back to it it's trivial.

Problem is we aren't gitting gud equally and we also didn't start with the same skillset. I've seen first playthroughs of DS3 or Elden Ring where tubers or streamers actually beat shit like Pontiff, Nameless, Friede, Malekith or Mogh first try. I've seen people beat Saint Isshin second try. Like, what the fuck?

Skill gaps between players are insane. One fixed difficulty is retarded. But FromSoft in trying to cater to souls ubermensch are making some bosses impossible for us peasants without summons.

I don't know about all that. I started with Elden Ring and I've since gone back and played the Dark Souls trilogy and Bloodborne. I like my RPGs turn-based so I didn't really have a pre-existing skillset that helped me tackle ER.

My impression of the past games, including DS1, is that the dungeons are way harder in the than in ER but the majority of bosses are way easier in the old games. A lot of the cuntier things that can happen to you in general gameplay (getting cursed is DS1, having an acid trap break all your rings in DS2) have been straight up cut. PVE also doesn't follow you very far if you aggro it allowing you to just run through dungeons way more easily than in Dark Souls. The dungeoneering side of ER is by far the easiest of any of the From games and most of the early and mid game bosses are on par with bosses in DS3. DS1 bosses are kind of a joke TBH, they did need to make them harder because they felt underwhelming after the dungeon you went through to get to them.

It isn't until the end game where it gets bullshit hard, but I think that difficulty is justified because ER PCs are far, far more powerful than in any previous title, provided you play naturally and don't restrict yourself for using OP shit. If your weapon arts aren't doing over 1k damage in the late game your build sucks. Elden Ring does have some very difficult encounters in it, but it doesn't seem outrageous or unusual in its difficulty except for Her. But She is an optional boss in a hidden area of a JRPG. Did they go too far with Her? I think so, yes. But she is only one boss in a massive game.

As far as skill gaps between players being a reason for difficulty settings, I disagree. I think that ER (while admittedly a difficult game), can be completed by anyone with enough persistence. Its probably the hardest game that a casual gamer can beat, but there are truly hard games out there that casuals just straight up can't complete (the bullet hell genre comes to mind, or old school platformers with limited lives and no saves).

Instead of toning down the diff some people just have to try harder to beat the bosses than others, but everyone can do it unless they're actually disabled in some way. I'm glad I had to upskill to beat the game and couldn't just turn down the diff if something frustrated me. There are moments where if I could have I totally would have, but then beating ER wouldn't have felt special or like an achievement. It would just be another game I played and forgot about.

A game is just a game and I don't want to be too melodramatic about it, but part of what makes beating a From game special is that you go through adversity and triumph over it, doing something that you at first thought was impossible. Kind of like in life. For an achievement to feel meaningful it needs to have been earned. When I killed Darkeater Midir it was a triumph. If I could have just toned down his HP and beat him without improving I wouldn't have cared.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Its probably the hardest game that a casual gamer can beat

Good take on Souls games.

 

[cvv]

I think that ER (while admittedly a difficult game), can be completed by anyone with enough persistence.

Dunno about "anyone", probably not. But even then, there's a persistence threshold beyond which fun turns to burnout and disgust.

An example - I DID beat Saint Isshin eventually coz I didn't have a choice coz you can't summon help in Sekiro but it took me two separate sittings, 6 hours in total. That's WAY beyond what I consider fun. I didn't feel elation or sense of reward for my persistence like you typically do in soulslikes. I was just tired and glad this shit's over. Same for the Hate Demon - 4 hours.

These bosses were simply too much for me. I COULD beat them but they stretched my elastic boundary of fun so much it actually snapped. I'd much prefer to play Sekiro on "Hard" instead of "Ass Rape" and overcome shit like Saint Isshin in two, three hours, which is about my limit.

And vice versa, those superhumans who could beat him on second or third try would probably welcome an even higher difficulty than we got in Sekiro. Or my little nephews (9 and 11) would love to play it on Easy, just to enjoy the vibe and Japanese culture.

I'm really not sure where this resistance to difficulty options is coming from. Is gud for everyone.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

I'm really not sure where this resistance to difficulty options is coming from. Is gud for everyone.

Difficulty options suck ass, only acceptable ones are turbo easy for disabled people and ultra hard as an option post-game for the freaks.

 

[Multidirectional]

An example - I DID beat Saint Isshin eventually coz I didn't have a choice coz you can't summon help in Sekiro but it took me two separate sittings, 6 hours in total. That's WAY beyond what I consider fun. I didn't feel elation or sense of reward for my persistence like you typically do in soulslikes.

Are you saying you were banging your head against the boss for 3 hours straight? That's just wrong in my opinion. When I get stuck on a boss I take a break from the fight every 30-40 minutes. Sometimes even a 20 minutes session is enough. Torturing myself for hours at a time would just drive me mad and cause me to play even worse. Sure, that sometimes means that a bossfight can take up to a week or more for me to complete but at least I'm not going insane with butthurt that way. It's why I always juggle few games, to have something else to play while taking a rest from a fight that's giving me trouble.

 

[cvv]

An example - I DID beat Saint Isshin eventually coz I didn't have a choice coz you can't summon help in Sekiro but it took me two separate sittings, 6 hours in total. That's WAY beyond what I consider fun. I didn't feel elation or sense of reward for my persistence like you typically do in soulslikes.

Are you saying you were banging your head against the boss for 3 hours straight? That's just wrong in my opinion. When I get stuck on a boss I take a break from the fight every 30-40 minutes.

That's obviously the reasonable thing to do and normally I'm a calm, reasonable man. But Miyazaki gives me autism.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I'm really not sure where this resistance to difficulty options is coming from. Is gud for everyone.

Putting in difficulty options is itself a different design choice requiring a certain mentality with regard to how your game will play. Additionally, since each option would have to be balanced separately, it would require additional QA time that no company will actually give. Most can barely do a proper balance pass over one difficulty, nevermind multiples. As a result, you end up with resources spread more thinly and generally a "normal" difficulty that's usually game journo retarded-tier and then a bunch of untested shit for anything aside from that, whether on the harder or easier side.

Not having difficulty options and expecting players to learn the systems and improve is also a valid (better imo) game design choice and one that's sadly underused these days.

 

[jaekl]

I don't care if it's hard or not, though there's something to be said for having a consistent experience across all players. It kind of grounds the world, makes it less gamey. I do wish they'd shift the focus away from bosses and back to navigating mysterious, deadly environments. I don't understand how getting trapped in big wide arenas with fucko tornadoblade, puker of particles became the highlight of the game for everyone. More perilous and atmospheric dungeons, less flopping around trying to play fantasy punchout IMO.

 

[cvv]

The best review of the game and the only one you really need:

 

[Spike]

The best review of the game and the only one you really need:

View attachment 40728

I saw this the other day only the text read "GAME" and "GAME (open world)" and it's still just as true.

 

[cvv]

The best review of the game and the only one you really need:

View attachment 40728

I saw this the other day only the text read "GAME" and "GAME (open world)" and it's still just as true.

I was actually shilling for ER right after the release, positively allahu-akbaring the game and arguing with my prestigious colleagues on this prestigious interweb site.

But I've come to see the light. An open-world Dark Souls is more idiotic than a transwoman dildo.

 

[Spike]

The best review of the game and the only one you really need:

View attachment 40728

I saw this the other day only the text read "GAME" and "GAME (open world)" and it's still just as true.

I was actually shilling for ER right after the release, positively allahu-akbaring the game and arguing with my prestigious colleagues on this prestigious interweb site.

But I've come to see the light. An open-world Dark Souls is more idiotic than a transwoman dildo.

Oh, Elden Ring still rules. All of From's work does. It's still enjoyable, I just think their talents are best served in something like another Demons' Souls but better.

 

[Skinwalker]

musings on the ending

It would have made much more sense if Radagon was the one who was keeping Marika (and therefore himself) imprisoned inside the Erdtree. Not as a puppeteered dead body, but willfully so. It's established throughout the game that the Radagon/Marika entity is divided not only along the lines of male/female, but also along being loyal/rebellious.

It seems that Marika somehow... concentrated all of her loyalty to the Greater Will into a separate personality (Radagon), and then tried and failed to convince Radagon to go along with her plan. After she became convinced that this would be impossible, she went ahead and shattered the Elden Ring. Radagon then tried (unsuccessfully) to mend it. All this is established in the game's lore and kind of makes sense.

What isn't clear is what happened immediately afterwards. It would have made sense for Radagon to decide "I and/or my rebellious alter-ego must now remain imprisoned inside the Erdtree for this great transgression, until and unless the Greater Will sends a communication telling me exactly what to do". He and Marika would then remain imprisoned in a battle of wills, until the PC broke the seal and bust inside.

However, FromSoftware decided to throw in a random curveball, and an unexplained new entity (the Elden Beast) emerges, confuses everything and doesn't really fit into the hierarchy of the Golden Order (and contradicts character motivations). I don't think there's any deep meaning behind it. They just wanted the game to have its own "and now comes the Moon Presence, bet you didn't see THAT coming" moment.

P. S. Yes, I know there's a spell description that mentions the Elden Beast, but that, too, is a confusing line that explains very little.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

musings on the ending

It would have made much more sense if Radagon was the one who was keeping Marika (and therefore himself) imprisoned inside the Erdtree. Not as a puppeteered dead body, but willfully so. It's established throughout the game that the Radagon/Marika entity is divided not only along the lines of male/female, but also along being loyal/rebellious.

It seems that Marika somehow... concentrated all of her loyalty to the Greater Will into a separate personality (Radagon), and then tried and failed to convince Radagon to go along with her plan. After she became convinced that this would be impossible, she went ahead and shattered the Elden Ring. Radagon then tried (unsuccessfully) to mend it. All this is established in the game's lore and kind of makes sense.

What isn't clear is what happened immediately afterwards. It would have made sense for Radagon to decide "I and/or my rebellious alter-ego must now remain imprisoned inside the Erdtree for this great transgression, until and unless the Greater Will sends a communication telling me exactly what to do". He and Marika would then remain imprisoned in a battle of wills, until the PC broke the seal and bust inside.

However, FromSoftware decided to throw in a random curveball, and an unexplained new entity (the Elden Beast) emerges, confuses everything and doesn't really fit into the hierarchy of the Golden Order (and contradicts character motivations). I don't think there's any deep meaning behind it. They just wanted the game to have its own "and now comes the Moon Presence, bet you didn't see THAT coming" moment.

P. S. Yes, I know there's a spell description that mentions the Elden Beast, but that, too, is a confusing line that explains very little.

Souls characters are infamous for being extremely unreliable. Especially the factions being hinted at being the good guys, they are using you. Them lying is not out of order (no pun intended). I think that's why they introduced the mute monk, that's followed by the dumb priest. He notices it and gets the charade, and tries to restore what was unmade by these gods. In a way, it's kind of an hellenic tale, with gods being more like agents of mischief than anything else. I dig that angle too, because most rpgs take the judeo-christan angle of it and sell it to you at face value.

 

[Skinwalker]

Souls characters are infamous for being extremely unreliable.

Yes, that's obvious. My strong impression isn't so much that only the characters are unreliable, but the storytellers (Myazaki, etc.) are unreliable and inconsistent as well. I think FS just throws things into the narrative simply because they think it looks cool, and not because it makes sense. Elden Beast being the prime example.

How does it make sense for the Greater Will to rule through a "god" that has the Elden Ring inside of her, the "Elden Lord" who is the consort of the "god", a number of Fingers advising them and their demigod children, but also to have an additional secret "vassal" - the Elden Beast, which actually ranks above the "god", and also somehow houses the Elden Ring, but also didn't do a single thing to stop Marika from shattering the Elden Ring... despite being capable of fully possessing her body, and even transforming it into a giant sword during the fight.

However you try to put the pieces together, the Elden Beast just doesn't fit. As a result, the ending ends up being meaningless fluff, because the sequence of events is nonsensical.

This system makes less sense than DS3's system of "Lords of Cinder" and "unkindled ones".

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Souls characters are infamous for being extremely unreliable.

Yes, that's obvious. My strong impression isn't so much that only the characters are unreliable, but the storytellers (Myazaki, etc.) are unreliable and inconsistent as well. I think FS just throws things into the narrative simply because they think it looks cool, and not because it makes sense. Elden Beast being the prime example.

How does it make sense for the Greater Will to rule through a "god" that has the Elden Ring inside of her, the "Elden Lord" who is the consort of the "god", a number of Fingers advising them and their demigod children, but also to have an additional secret "vassal" - the Elden Beast, which actually ranks above the "god", and also somehow houses the Elden Ring, but also didn't do a single thing to stop Marika from shattering the Elden Ring... despite being capable of fully possessing her body, and even transforming it into a giant sword during the fight.

However you try to put the pieces together, the Elden Beast just doesn't fit. As a result, the ending ends up being meaningless fluff, because the sequence of events is nonsensical.

This system makes less sense than DS3's system of "Lords of Cinder" and "unkindled ones".

The whole flame thing was purely smoke and mirrors in the Souls games. Similarly, there's more than one person telling you that the Fingers and the whole deal is just a scam as well.

 

[Skinwalker]

Ok, who's running the scam, what are its goals, and are the goals achieved in any of the game's endings? And how does Marika shattering the Elden Ring and then being imprisoned in the Erdtree by the Elden Beast play into this?

 

[cvv]

Oh, Elden Ring still rules.

Sure, I have 200 hours in the game.

All I'm saying is Souls-likes don't need open world. It's actually a detriment for this subgenre.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Ok, who's running the scam

The writers

Whole thing always struck me as a paradise lost/snake apple allegory, except paradise was a farce to begin with, yaldabaoth and all that. The Erdtree looks broken into, right? That thing probably didn't grow a fissure and door all by itself. So everything was going along according to the tree, at some point for whatever reason it gets broken into, and from there everything becomes fuzzy and eventually turns into the mess we start the game at. Feel free to fill in the blanks yourself

 

[Ravielsk]

The writers

The only Souls game that was narrative wise finished was Dark Souls 1. Every other game is either unfinished or cobbled together mess of multiple contradictory ideas. Pretending there is an actual through line connecting all three is just pure retardation. FFS Dark Souls 2 was literary not even made by Miyazaki and had a huge make over mid development, literary nothing from that game should be treated as even remotely canon. Dark Souls 3 was literary a whole different game during development, the released product is more like a abridged version of that.

Elden Ring is no different in this regard. The cut content clearly hints at last minute reshuffles of major narrative points that ultimately, as per usual with From software, resulted in a mess of a story where you either ignore chunks of it or pretend that its supposed to be "2deep4you" lore that only Miyazaki can explain (spoiler alert: He cannot because its mostly spur of the moment bullshit)

 

[cvv]

Dark Souls 3 was literary a whole different game during development, the released product is more like a abridged version of that.

Sauce?

 

[Ravielsk]

Sauce?

Every single piece of cut content. The easiest one to point out is the bonfire making system which is shown in the gameplay reveal trailer around 1:10 and is the sole reason why DS3 is so swamped with bonfires. They cut the mechanic late into development and had to compensate by spamming normal bonfires all around the place because there was no time to properly rework levels and enemy placement.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

The writers

The only Souls game that was narrative wise finished was Dark Souls 1. Every other game is either unfinished or cobbled together mess of multiple contradictory ideas.

Demon's Souls is even more coherent in terms of narrative than Dark Souls. It's only after the success of Dark Souls that FromSoft became quite lazy in regard to world-building.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

The mistake people make often about FS games is that the lore is meant to actually count, or be relevant. It's not. They follow the John Carmack school of game writing. The issue here is twofold: the translations they comission themselves are shit more often than not, and the whole "the timeline is blurry" deal allows for more flexibility for them and allows players to keep their suspension of disbelief activated at all times, because it's the perfect excuse.