From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Child of Malkav]

Hehe, I've been imagining how a Gale fight would go and how the story would be for DkS3 if they actually wanted to end the series properly with a bang:

Go with the secret ending of DkS2 (walk away with Aldia). Aldia makes a plan to kill all possible pretenders/guys who want to link the fire and prolong the current state of the world, he basically makes a hit list for you and you start with a maxed out character and fully powered up (level, gear, spells, inventory, the CROWNS which are blessed and allow you not to hollow anymore that you have from DkS2) and you go hunting all these lords of fire. In the meantime Aldia makes contact with the painter and Gale and convene with them to paint a new world. Now, at some point in the game before you fight the the Soul of Cinder you do the 1st DLC which ends with Gale disappearing and you going after him in the 2nd DLC at the painter's request to bring the dark souls...blood...whatever it was I don't remember, and it goes normally until you touch the egg of that big, white chick which transports you into the future. When you travel into the future literally at the end of the world you can also find and fight Aldia which has gone insane after you disappeared and lost contact with you. He also acquired a physical form to try to accomplish the rest of the tasks but he fails as he doesn't have your power. He retreats and hides from Gale all this time until eventually succumbs to madness and slowly becomes hollow. When you find him he doesn't even recognize you and attacks you. You kill him and get another blessing from him or a powerful item which allows you to create monsters of your own. This ability he learned from his experiments at the Keep in DkS2, from creating the big humanoid hippos, the deformed creatures, the ancient dragon, the exploding mummies etc.
The fight against Gale is different (he becomes the incarnation of the Dark Soul and yours is the last piece it needs to be complete again). You arrive at the broken throne with the original Pigmy Lord on it, dead and hear a roar in the distance and a laughter and you see Gale coming on a huge skeletal everlasting dragon flying towards you.
The first phase of the fight is killing the dragon and getting Gael on the ground. The dragon can be killed using lightning as even in death they maintain the same weakness.
The second phase starts with Gale attacking you like Manus did. The fight proceeds as we know it but with vastly different abilities in an extremely big arena.
The third phase is about showing the abilities Gale gets as the fight intensifies and they are more and more scary: he changes appearance resembling some of the monstrosities you see in Oolacile in AotA DLC, he darkens the sky and the surrounding area (and you have to use a torch or some kind of light to survive or even a more badass way you can use a new spell created by Aldia that forces the Sun to fire a solar flare at any location you want), uses all the hexes and dark spells you used in DkS2 mocking you that you only used a small fraction of their true power, calls Abyss tornadoes from time to time, can split the arena using earthquakes reinforcing the idea that you need to kill him quickly before the situation goes out of control even more, he even gets the ability to rewind time for the last 3 seconds randomly, can call in sandstorms or ashstorms, can reanimate nearby corpses if there are any. As the fight goes on he becomes more powerful not less.
In phase 4 he creates ash monsters from the surrounding dunes in order to overwhelm you but if you killed Aldia before you have that forbidden knowledge that allows you to summon your own army (going back to Ivory King DLC fight). The maximum number of monsters on either side can go up to 30 or more. No matter the number Gale will always rush and attack you above all else. All the other monsters fight each other. The phase ends when Gale sustains enough damage to retreat from you and then he sends his remaining creatures to rush you.
After you kill them phase 5 starts and he gains the ability to call in stars and meteors while attacking you relentlessly. You can take cover from them in nearby ruins allowing them to tank the hits and getting permanently destroyed in the process.
Seeing you surviving everything sends him into a rage starting phase 6 of the fight. The floor begins to tremble and in the distance we see a volcano erupting with such force that it sends magma and pieces of rock falling over the arena. This phase is just a 1 on 1 and he also gets access to new abilties like telekinesis, invisibility (watch for the footsteps in the sand/ash), flash freeze and a few others. Once you deliver the fatal blow, with his last breath he summons a worlwide flood and flips the magnetic poles. You see the horizons darken as huge tsunamis race towards you. You pick up the dark soul and use the bonfire creation mechanic (that was scrapped from the final game) to make a bonfire out of Gael's corpse then you travel to the painter. There you get the option to become Dark Lord and do what Gwyn did and continue the cycle but this time with the dark instead of the light OR go kill the Soul of Cinder (he won't fight you if you killed Gael) and link the fire again OR give the painter the items so she makes a new world to which you travel. You have 10 minutes to make your choice as the flood kills the world.

All of this would correctly show why Gwyn feared the Dark Soul.

 

[Ezekiel]

How do the Souls protagonists learn about the items' lore: what's written in their descriptions? How do they grow? Pretty obvious the devs just design most of the items, characters and environments and then make up shit after. Think they even said something like this about ten years ago. I'm not impressed anymore, which is why I stopped reading most of the descriptions in Dark Souls III and why I stopped watching Vaati and whoever that white guy was who stopped uploading after moving to Japan and having a half-Japanese baby (whom I preferred over Vaati anyway). I used to be so impressed, but now think that if it's told mostly in text rather than visually it's kind of lazy. It's funny to me that people call the storytelling minimalist. No, minimalist is something like Ico, Limbo, Lara Croft GO or Sonic the Hedgehog 3. Souls is actually pretty heavy because of all the text exposition.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's minimalist in the sense you can play and finish the game without paying much attention to any of it.

I think this kind of thing worked in their older games better because there was something more innocent about them. His early games had a bit of youthful naivety about them i think Miyazaki just got jaded over the years, which was inevitable as getting old does that to a person. I had the same reaction to Avellone's writing in Pillars compared to his stuff in Torment.

BTW, i'm mentioning Miyazaki and not Martin because the text in the game was clearly not written by the latter. Whatever Martin did it probably came in the form of lore summarys there doesn't seem to be any actual writing from him in the game at all.

 

[Child of Malkav]

BTW, i'm mentioning Myazaki and not Martin because the text in the game was clearly not written by the latter. Whatever Martin did it probably came in the form of lore summarys there doesn't seem to be any actual writing from in the game at all.

There was an interview/or more at some point in which It was mentioned that Martin wrote the mythos, world lore and the big events and set the narrative framework overall. So events that happened thousands of years ago, political games, assassinations, wars between the demigods, the nuking of Caelid etc. Whereas individual NPC dialogue and item description were written by memehackzaky.

 

[NJClaw]

How do the Souls protagonists learn about the items' lore

They don't and they don't need to. Main characters always act according to something NPCs told them in-game, item descriptions are there only for the player 99% of time. I love stuff like the Budding Green Blossom in Sirri's quest in DS3, where the "item description" is in a message tied to the item, but I can't think of any other example.

It's funny to me that people call the storytelling minimalist. No, minimalist is something like Ico, Limbo, Lara Croft GO or Sonic the Hedgehog 3. Souls is actually pretty heavy because of all the text exposition.

It's considered minimalist compared to what your usual RPG does. It's obviously no Ico or Limbo, but they're also games in a completely different genre. Would you say that a 1-page sacred text isn't "minimalist" compared to the Bible because haikus exist?

 

[Caim]

How do the Souls protagonists learn about the items' lore

Schizophrenia.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

It's considered minimalist compared to what your usual RPG does. It's obviously no Ico or Limbo, but they're also games in a completely different genre. Would you say that a 1-page sacred text isn't "minimalist" compared to the Bible because haikus exist?

Also worth considering the extreme difference in game length, where Elden Ring is perhaps 110 hours (for a completionist), whereas Ico and Shadow of the Colossus are perhaps 10 hours. The amount of story per time unit might be comparable.

 

[gabel]

And Elden Ring has actual gameplay on top.
Wow!

 

[gabel]

Ico and Shadow of the Colossus are utter shit.
Hope that clears up your confusion, Zed Duke of Banville.

 

[Ezekiel]

It's considered minimalist compared to what your usual RPG does. It's obviously no Ico or Limbo, but they're also games in a completely different genre. Would you say that a 1-page sacred text isn't "minimalist" compared to the Bible because haikus exist?

Also worth considering the extreme difference in game length, where Elden Ring is perhaps 110 hours (for a completionist), whereas Ico and Shadow of the Colossus are perhaps 10 hours. The amount of story per time unit might be comparable.

110 hours? Are you for real? That sounds wrong based on my experiences with the Souls games. Are you factoring in just quests (story) or also including collectibles that can barely be counted as story? Because Shadow of the Colossus takes way longer than ten hours for a completionist. Getting to the secret garden requires two or three playthroughs plus eating white lizard tails where you can find them, and completion also means getting all the items by doing all the boss time attacks in both Normal and Hard mode, which only unlock after you've done a playthrough in each mode.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

110 hours? Are you for real?

I took about 120 hours on first playthrough, not completing every mini dungeon. I like to take my time tho.

 

[9ted6]

I think this kind of thing worked in their older games better because there was something more innocent about them. His early games had a bit of youthful naivety about them i think Miyazaki just got jaded over the years, which was inevitable as getting old does that to a person.

If I remember he's said repeatedly how much he hates sequels and how the only reason Souls 2 and 3 got made were because Bandai controlled the license. I think Demon and Dark Souls feel a lot better than what came later because the team was more engaged with them.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I think this kind of thing worked in their older games better because there was something more innocent about them. His early games had a bit of youthful naivety about them i think Miyazaki just got jaded over the years, which was inevitable as getting old does that to a person.

If I remember he's said repeatedly how much he hates sequels and how the only reason Souls 2 and 3 got made were because Bandai controlled the license. I think Demon and Dark Souls feel a lot better than what came later because the team gave a shit.

I said as such and DS2 and DS3 have all the markings of something he was roped into doing against his will.

People give Miyazaki too much shit here. He has been trying his hardest to remain fresh. If he had his way Dark Souls 1 would have been the last one and the fact he focused on something different like Bloodborne and handed Dark Souls 2 to some hastely cobbled togheter team of new hirees proves it.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Tomoe DLC looks good

 

[Sunri]

is the dlc coming out or what?

 

[Child of Malkav]

It's a mod.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Bruh...

 

[Skinwalker]

It's funny to me that people call the storytelling minimalist. No, minimalist is something like Ico, Limbo, Lara Croft GO or Sonic the Hedgehog 3. Souls is actually pretty heavy because of all the text exposition.

It's not minimalist, it's just half-assed. Sticking 90% of the lore into item descriptions, even though it's needed to understand wtf is going on in the game you're playing, is extremely silly, but they keep doing it, because they can't be bothered to write NPC dialogue that actually makes sense. Uusually NPCs are just blithering insane nonsense or extremely vaguely alluding to things you can't possibly figure out unless you studiously explore every single item in your inventory. They waste their voice acting budget on vague nonsense, and then put bits of important backstory into item description text, and spread those bits around tons of individual items, even generic craft materials or potions.

Elden Ring is actually one of the best games in terms of story/plot/lore clarity, there's not nearly as many raving lunatics as in DS1, DS3, or especially Bloodporn, and they even put a character whose entire role is to provide exposition on major story bosses. Still, they clearly stop giving a shit about clarity half-way through the game, and we're back to needlessly vague allusions and item descriptions. And the amount of items is staggeringly high, since this is an open-world game.

Myazaki is a master at taking refuge in obscurantism.

 

[9ted6]

It's funny to me that people call the storytelling minimalist. No, minimalist is something like Ico, Limbo, Lara Croft GO or Sonic the Hedgehog 3. Souls is actually pretty heavy because of all the text exposition.

It's not minimalist, it's just half-assed. Sticking 90% of the lore into item descriptions, even though it's needed to understand wtf is going on in the game you're playing, is extremely silly, but they keep doing it, because they can't be bothered to write NPC dialogue that actually makes sense. Uusually NPCs are just blithering insane nonsense or extremely vaguely alluding to things you can't possibly figure out unless you studiously explore every single item in your inventory. They waste their voice acting budget on vague nonsense, and then put bits of important backstory into item description text, and spread those bits around tons of individual items, even generic craft materials or potions.

Elden Ring is actually one of the best games in terms of story/plot/lore clarity, there's not nearly as many raving lunatics as in DS1, DS3, or especially Bloodporn, and they even put a character whose entire role is to provide exposition on major story bosses. Still, they clearly stop giving a shit about clarity half-way through the game, and we're back to needlessly vague allusions and item descriptions. And the amount of items is staggeringly high, since this is an open-world game.

Myazaki is a master at taking refuge in obscurantism.

Could never understand how anyone could say Bloodborne has a great story. It's just nonsense. DS1 and ER are the only ones with somewhat followable plots but even then a lot of the writers not caring or knowing what to do with the story's hidden behind the excuse of it being obtuse on purpose.

It still kind of works in those games but it's still flawed, with ER being dragged down by George RR Martin's terrible writing and kink insertions and some DS1 NPCs being needlessly cryptic even though they're supposed to be normal people, though not near as cryptic as 3 where everyone can only speak in riddles.

 

[Silverfish]

Could never understand how anyone could say Bloodborne has a great story. It's just nonsense.

In Bloodborne's defense (which isn't something I ever thought I'd say), I don't think you're meant to take the plot, such as it is, completely literally. They're pretty upfront that events are at least partially a dream.

 

[Turn_BASED]

New DLC screenshots leaked let’s goooo

 

[Skinwalker]

Could never understand how anyone could say Bloodborne has a great story.

I don't think Bloodborne has a story, as such. The entire story happened before the protagonist awoke in Yosefka's clinic, now he's just mopping up the mess left by transhumanist cultists.

 

[Ezekiel]

Could never understand how anyone could say Bloodborne has a great story. It's just nonsense.

In Bloodborne's defense (which isn't something I ever thought I'd say), I don't think you're meant to take the plot, such as it is, completely literally. They're pretty upfront that events are at least partially a dream.

It's too visceral to be a dream. If you wanna make a dream game, don't pick action. That's like Christopher Nolan being so unimaginative that he just put guns in his dream movie, Inception.

 

[Silverfish]

It's too visceral to be a dream. If you wanna make a dream game, don't pick action.

Fair point, but parts of the game definitely run on dream logic. Especially some of the stuff surrounding Rom, like jumping into a river only to land on solid ground beneath or, after the fight, when the moon suddenly turns red and Yharnam is just standing there. Cainhurst has a bit as well, where once you arrive, the carriage you travelled in is knocked over, the horses that pulled it are dead and both are covered with enough snow that it looks like they've been that way for weeks. Depending on what ending you go for, the game can even bookend with imagery that fits the idea. You start on a bed and, in the wuss ending (where you don't fight Gherman or the Moon Presence), your character is seen waking up, albeit in a different location. The Moon Presence ending could be argued to fit as well, but more metaphorically than literally. Granted, this could be a simple case of reading too much into things, but without speculation the Souls stories don't have much to fall back on.

 

[Child of Malkav]

The only dream location in that game is the Hunter's dream, literally in the name.
The rest of the game takes place in a nightmare.
Until the end where you can choose to wake up. Or ascend.
Which means that the Great Ones use sleep and dreams/nightmares to select candidates, run experiments etc. If you wake up you can see a peaceful, normal looking city, probably asleep, trapped in the same nightmare.
People were probably put to sleep after getting blood transfusion that's supposedly some kind of cure or something, I don't remember.
But this is what I got after watching a playthrough back when the game came out.