Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
8,196
Location
Lusitânia
"I shouldn't have to redo a boss over and over to learn it's patterns". The solution to this is to apparently to make the pattern both simple
The solution is to make a better combat system kek

Though simpler patterns aren't a bad thing - as far gameplay design goes, its better to have to multiple simple patterns that neatly build into each other, than it is to have few but overly complicated patterns




Do Codexers love Dark Souls 2 so much because they love Turn Based combat systems and Dark Souls 2's battle system is the slowest and clunky?
I would say its because DS2 is the best one mechanically
 
Last edited:

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,565
Yeah but that's the thing. I don't see where the "unfairness" is. The only thing i found "unfair" in the entirety of Elden Ring was Malenia's Waterfowl attack. It's the ONLY time i was ever forced to look at a guide in a FromSoft game.

Everything else i was able to cope with just fine. Shit like "obscure timed attacks" for me just means: i didn't get it.
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
Joined
Jun 16, 2023
Messages
2,144
Everything else i was able to cope with just fine. Shit like "obscure timed attacks" for me just means: i didn't get it.
If I beat the game then I got it. You might enjoy bosses reading your inputs and holding attacks to punish you for not standing idle for 5 seconds. Others do not. You also ignore that Maliketh can jump around the arena, break your camera lock on and then shoot a ranged attack at you that passes through terrain and deletes a chunk of your health bar. Just because you don't need a guide doesn't mean it's fair for game breaking problems to exist. How many times did you stand behind a pillar and Maliketh dashed/swung right through it and hit you on the other side because enemies ignore terrain? It happened to me several times and I don't think any one should find that acceptable. It's not Tough but fair, it's broken game mechanics.
Do Mimic Tear / Moonveil count as parts of the character's moveset?
Yes, but are also a sign of the problem. The increased shounen anime style of the games has pushed the feel of the games past breaking point. If a player needs an exact clone of themselves and both are firing lasers from their dick while Goku spirit bombs the boss there is a serious problem with your combat system. It becomes less about player skill and more about broken builds. If you don't enjoy summoning an army and using weapon arts you're in for a seriously rough time from basically the capital on wards.
 

Odoryuk

Educated
Joined
Mar 26, 2024
Messages
670
If a player needs an exact clone of themselves and both are firing lasers from their dick while Goku spirit bombs the boss there is a serious problem with your combat system.
All of this is not necessary to beat any of the bosses in Elden Ring. People killed Malenia without leveling up, or without using any weapons, and some years later someone will beat her without upgrading and without using any weapons at all, it's all possible. There's no problem with their combat systems, it's very versatile. You can go on about roll spam and how it is impossible to beat the game otherwise, but their games were bitten with fat rolling characters just fine. You can use whatever the game gives you and it will affect your experience. If you're not that skillful, you can use Mimic Tear and have fun with that. It's fun.
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
Joined
Jun 16, 2023
Messages
2,144
If a player needs an exact clone of themselves and both are firing lasers from their dick while Goku spirit bombs the boss there is a serious problem with your combat system.
All of this is not necessary to beat any of the bosses in Elden Ring. People killed Malenia without leveling up, or without using any weapons, and some years later someone will beat her without upgrading and without using any weapons at all, it's all possible. There's no problem with their combat systems, it's very versatile. You can go on about roll spam and how it is impossible to beat the game otherwise, but their games were bitten with fat rolling characters just fine. You can use whatever the game gives you and it will affect your experience. If you're not that skillful, you can use Mimic Tear and have fun with that. It's fun.
I've done RL1 Elden Ring runs. I still think the system is broken and needs fixing. Being able to throw yourself at the game until it doesn't fuck you doesn't mean it's not wearing a 5 foot dog dildo and coming for you while you sleep. You shouldn't have to dodge a sword phasing through a giant pillar because any one not retarded can understand swords don't phase through pillars.
 

Odoryuk

Educated
Joined
Mar 26, 2024
Messages
670
You shouldn't have to dodge a sword phasing through a giant pillar because any one not retarded can understand swords don't phase through pillars.
You should learn that large-ass enemies or enemies with long weaponry can get you and just evade these attacks just in case pretty quick.
I can't see any fix for that, besides removing said attacks, which will decrease the fun factor a lot. You either get non flailing humanoid enemies with small radius of attacks or enemies that play a special animation when hit any wall surface (just like player does, which forces you to be aware of your surrounding and your weapon's moveset), which will be funny as hell (funny, not fun, lure any giant enemy near the wall, they will try to hit you and will bounce of the wall, allowing you to kill them easily)
 

Odoryuk

Educated
Joined
Mar 26, 2024
Messages
670
You shouldn't have to dodge a sword phasing through a giant pillar because any one not retarded can understand swords don't phase through pillars.
You should learn that large-ass enemies or enemies with long weaponry can get you and just evade these attacks just in case pretty quick.
I can't see any fix for that, besides removing said attacks, which will decrease the fun factor a lot. You either get non flailing humanoid enemies with small radius of attacks or enemies that play a special animation when hit any wall surface (just like player does, which forces you to be aware of your surrounding and your weapon's moveset), which will be funny as hell (funny, not fun, lure any giant enemy near the wall, they will try to hit you and will bounce of the wall, allowing you to kill them easily)
Wait, I came up with an algorythm. So, instead of using large capsules for hitboxes, you use tenths if not hundreds of small spheres that act as hitboxes. If any of this hitboxes collide with a terrain or non-character object, you disable them for the rest of the attack animation. So, if the attack goes through a wall a little, the hitboxes on the tip of the sword will be disabled. But, again, this will feel weird when the blade touches your character and doesn't hit even if you're not rolling.

Anyways, FromSoftware, hire this man.

and improve the AI/movesets so they can't be abused to bounce off walls
There's so many situations where this can break, that changing it so some people would stop complaining about penetrating hitboxes is not viable at all.
 

H. P. Lovecraft's Cat

SumDrunkCat
Shitposter
Joined
Feb 7, 2024
Messages
2,885
Yeah but that's the thing. I don't see where the "unfairness" is. The only thing i found "unfair" in the entirety of Elden Ring was Malenia's Waterfowl attack. It's the ONLY time i was ever forced to look at a guide in a FromSoft game.

Everything else i was able to cope with just fine. Shit like "obscure timed attacks" for me just means: i didn't get it.
There was nothing unfair in the game. You're fighting ghosts.

Souls combat is legit, but it's not the best in all things. Unless we're talking Dark Souls 2. I might try to make an argument for Dark Souls 2.

Do Codexers love Dark Souls 2 so much because they love Turn Based combat systems and Dark Souls 2's battle system is the slowest and clunky?
There have been countless examples of why it's so beloved. It evolutionized the Souls-style combat in the best way and imo, they never got back there. Bloodborne did it's own thing which is fine. Sekiro also but it's the worst of the bunch for being so one-note and having tons of awful forced stealth mechanics. DkS3 stripped away everything good that 2 introduced so fuck that game. Elden Ring brought back some stuff from 2 but it was watered down. 2 remains the best.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,565
If a player needs an exact clone of themselves and both are firing lasers from their dick while Goku spirit bombs the boss there is a serious problem with your combat system.
All of this is not necessary to beat any of the bosses in Elden Ring. People killed Malenia without leveling up, or without using any weapons, and some years later someone will beat her without upgrading and without using any weapons at all, it's all possible. There's no problem with their combat systems, it's very versatile. You can go on about roll spam and how it is impossible to beat the game otherwise, but their games were bitten with fat rolling characters just fine. You can use whatever the game gives you and it will affect your experience. If you're not that skillful, you can use Mimic Tear and have fun with that. It's fun.

There's a guy who beat Malenia with fists only (not fist weapons, literally just the fists). Took him about 3 hours.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
16,022
Elden Ring combat is like a 3000 piece puzzle, where all the pieces are white, and there's also an extra 500 pieces that fit 3 neighbours at once just to fuck with you. Because it's possible to finish the puzzle, autists think nothing is wrong with it.
 

Odoryuk

Educated
Joined
Mar 26, 2024
Messages
670
There have been countless examples of why it's so beloved.
I only remember people praising its approach to NG+ (a lot of random red phantoms everywhere, the only good thing is the Freja encounter, which actually would made the base NG way better and there's no sense locking it behind NG+, clearly shows their lack of time when redeveloping the game), PvP (I can understand people liking a lot of variations of equipment they can use, even though it's mostly visual stuff and I find DS2's visual style very weak) and DLCs (DLC content is actually very good, I agree here, they made the game way better).

I understand that there was a large backlash when it was released and the game was hated a lot for superficial reasons, but I feel that the recent wave of fanboyism towards DS2 is the same, but with opposite sign. I mean, people are free to select their favorite game, but DS2 fans are really obnoxious online, trying to cling to Elden Ring as if that game owes DS2 its success. DS2 fans have a trauma and it's not healthy.

There's a guy who beat Malenia with fists only (not fist weapons, literally just the fists). Took him about 3 hours.

I remember seeing something like that on Youtube, but that guy levelled up a lot. I have yet to see someone beating her SL1 without upgrading anything and using only bare fists (though I never really searched for such content, maybe it had been done already).
Elden Ring combat is like a 3000 piece puzzle, where all the pieces are white, and there's also an extra 500 pieces that fit 3 neighbours at once just to fuck with you. Because it's possible to finish the puzzle, autists think nothing is wrong with it.
It is actually the autists who want to have a perfect puzzle. Normal people just play the game and have fun.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,565
Meh, i've never personally been a fan of action games because i never liked doing things by rote. All that shit about having to memorize combos etc always gave me ADHD.

I'm addicted to FromSoft combat precisely because i have to figure things out. Bruising my face against a boss over and over doesn't bother me because my mind is engaged in trying to understand what's going on, and the more "obscure" the better to be honest.

One of my favored bosses in Sekiro was Headless precisely because i couldn't understand wtf was going on lmao. It's only on the third fight i finally managed to master him:



I just love this shit. I even managed to figure out his ass grabbing move which i was pretty proud of.
 

H. P. Lovecraft's Cat

SumDrunkCat
Shitposter
Joined
Feb 7, 2024
Messages
2,885
There have been countless examples of why it's so beloved.
I only remember people praising its approach to NG+ (a lot of random red phantoms everywhere, the only good thing is the Freja encounter, which actually would made the base NG way better and there's no sense locking it behind NG+, clearly shows their lack of time when redeveloping the game), PvP (I can understand people liking a lot of variations of equipment they can use, even though it's mostly visual stuff and I find DS2's visual style very weak) and DLCs (DLC content is actually very good, I agree here, they made the game way better).

I understand that there was a large backlash when it was released and the game was hated a lot for superficial reasons, but I feel that the recent wave of fanboyism towards DS2 is the same, but with opposite sign. I mean, people are free to select their favorite game, but DS2 fans are really obnoxious online, trying to cling to Elden Ring as if that game owes DS2 its success. DS2 fans have a trauma and it's not healthy.
That's a whole lot of words coming out of a tiny turtled penis. If you don't like the GOAT it's fine but don't personally attack it's fans. You may as well dive into a den of Lions, son.
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
Joined
Jun 16, 2023
Messages
2,144
If I beat the game then I got it.

So what's the problem. Are the movesets obscure or are they not?
I can also eat a pile of horse shit, but it doesn't mean I want to does it? There is a sweet spot where difficulty and predictable game mechanics cross over. Elden Ring literally breaks half of it's own rules with no warning. Maliketh's projectile penetrate terrain when none of the previous ones do. How is a player reasonably supposed to expect they're going to get nuked if they take cover? If you take him out of his arena and fight him else where he's a pretty fair boss, but the pillars have specific problems with his moveset and him mounting the walls. A competent developer would have said the pillars need removing or they need to control the AI to prevent his attacks clipping or the camera breaking. From said ship it and 2 years later (more like 15 years later) the issue hasn't been patched. He still noclips through terrain, his attacks still hit you through pillars and he still breaks the camera when he jumps around and 1-2 shots you from angles it's difficult to predict with a broken camera. And manual camera control requires the same finger you use to roll which means you have to pick between seeing the boss or rolling as quickly as possible, which is essential with a boss as fast as him.

And Maliketh is no different to the jailers in Dark souls 3 in terms of health bar depletion but one is fair and predictable while the other is chaotic and abusing broken game physics.
 

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
3,085
Location
Romania
There have been countless examples of why it's so beloved. It evolutionized the Souls-style combat in the best way and imo, they never got back there. Bloodborne did it's own thing which is fine. Sekiro also but it's the worst of the bunch for being so one-note and having tons of awful forced stealth mechanics. DkS3 stripped away everything good that 2 introduced so fuck that game. Elden Ring brought back some stuff from 2 but it was watered down. 2 remains the best.
How can you be so right about DkS2 and 3 and at the same time be so wrong about Sekiro? Huh? How can 2 personalities coexist with one another?
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
8,196
Location
Lusitânia

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,565
There's no problem with their combat systems, it's very versatile.
The build possibilities are versatile, the combat system itself not so much


All that shit about having to memorize combos etc always gave me ADHD.
I'm addicted to FromSoft combat precisely because i have to figure (i.e. memorize) things out.
:hmmm:

There's a difference between having to learn things by rote and learning as you discover things.
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
8,196
Location
Lusitânia
In my experience, games that emphasize combos and shit are usually the ones that encourage experimentation and truly allow for improvisation...

:M
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom