From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Damned Registrations]

There's a difference being behaving randomly and behaving according to intuitions and logic. Like, if I see an enemy hold a giant weapon overhead with two hands, I'd be a retard to try block or parry it instead of dodging. Likewise, trying to dodge a wolf or bird instead of just blocking or parrying them. Failing that, internal setting logic is useful, like say, flames tend to linger and punish dodging, while lightning does not, or the enemies with spiky hats overwhelm blocks easily. Of course, this relies on the game actually making sense and being consistent with such things. Elden Ring can't even be assed to have consistent fucking physics, with enemies hovering in mid air to delay the end of a jumping attack.

If the gameplay is reduced to 'wait until he holds his sword over his right shoulder, then hit button X when it's at 60 degrees, swing sword 3 times and then stand still to recover stamina and avoid provoking the dash attack' then I may as well go play Osu!

 

[Lyric Suite]

If the gameplay is reduced to 'wait until he holds his sword over his right shoulder, then hit button X when it's at 60 degrees, swing sword 3 times and then stand still to recover stamina and avoid provoking the dash attack' then I may as well go play Osu!

Well, if we were to talk about "realism", that to me feels much more real than anything you described in your first point.

Not just Asian martial arts but even western boxing requires a great deal of technical expertise. It's not as simple as being able to "react" to the punch as it is happening. A supposed "brute" like Forman had to use an highly technical defense system to beat Joe Frazer:



The way i see it, FromSoft combat is akin to figuring out a technique in a martial art. First, you have to be able to see what is happening, second, you have to figure out a counter and lastly you have to train yourself to be able to perform the counter flawlessly. What you seem to be asking is a combat system that mirrors combat between untrained amateurs where everything can go and there's no rules.

BTW, out of curiosity, which game do you think did combat right under your criteria?

 

[Tse Tse Fly]

Reading Lyric Suite 's posts in this thread is actually more interesting than playing this game Every time I see this thread updated I'm tempted to give ER another chance, but then I realize it will go down like my previous attempts.

 

[Lyric Suite]

This game's size broke even me though it was my fault for trying an SL1 run so close to my first playthrough. Should have given it at least another year lmao.

Gonna be fun once the DLC is out too. I'm actually tempted to skip it's release and post pone playing it once i'm ready to do another full playthrough, probably a few years from now.

 

[Hell Swarm]

The way i see it, FromSoft combat is akin to figuring out a technique in a martial art. First, you have to be able to see what is happening, second, you have to figure out a counter and lastly you have to train yourself to be able to perform the counter flawlessly. What you seem to be asking is a combat system that mirrors combat between untrained amateurs where everything can go and there's no rules.

I'm going to rollbackwards and shoot that faggot in the face. Now where is your God larper man? Video games aren't real world combat. I'm pushing a button to do an animation and that's it. I don't have full control of my pointy stick and even if I did how many souls bosses even care if you hit them? Most creatures react poorly to a spear in the ribs. Almost every souls boss will beat your ass down if you poke at the wrong time. So realism is off the table the moment the game decides realistic damage to weapons isn't happening. I don't care how tough Morgott thinks he is, if I stick a spear through his rib cage he's not doing flippy shit and hitting me with a sledge hammer right after.

 

[Damned Registrations]

BTW, out of curiosity, which game do you think did combat right under your criteria?

Monster Hunter series is probably the best if we're talking about a 3D action game imo. Aside from some janky stuff like the space warping Plesioth, you can generally predict where a monster is going to be at least half a second from now at any given moment, even on your first encounter. When a monster leaps at you, it follows a parabolic arc. When it rears back and lunges forward, it finishes the lunge instead of pausing halfway through for a quarter second to ruin your dodge timing. You can judge the range of a monster by the length of it's limbs and the way it moves in general, whether it's a lumbering beast or an agile predator. When I lose a fight in a MH game, pretty much without exception I feel like it was my fault for not reading the situation or managing my own resources properly. Monsters have a fatigue and rage system as well playing into their behaviour, and the fights are meant to last a long time and give you many chances to learn and adjust, instead of being over in 60 seconds, win or lose.

In an even broader sense, fighting games are what set the bar for action combat. Assuming players of equal skill, the match is about mindgames and reading behaviour, rather than timing or memorization. You're never totally in control, but jump kicking someone in the face when they go for their 3rd sweep kick in a row feels satisfying in a way poking at a golem's ankles after it does attack variant 2B does not.

 

[Silverfish]

Yeah, every time I read a novel that uses iframes, I roll my eyes and snort.

To say nothing of tv shows that use iframes.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Yeah, every time I read a novel that uses iframes, I roll my eyes and snort.

To say nothing of tv shows that use iframes.

Are you an idiot or just pretending to be one? The blunt side of his sword hits his arm and it rolls off. He isn't physically being cut and not being harmed because he turned on god mode for 3 seconds. The blade doesn't cut him because the sharp edge never touches him.

 

[mediocrepoet]

To say nothing of tv shows that use iframes.

Are you an idiot or just pretending to be one? The blunt side of his sword hits his arm and it rolls off. He isn't physically being cut and not being harmed because he turned on god mode for 3 seconds. The blade doesn't cut him because the sharp edge never touches him.

We get that you're a dumbfuck alt based on your join date, you don't need to keep posting to drive the point home.

 

[Odoryuk]

We get that you're a dumbfuck alt based on your join date, you don't need to keep posting to drive the point home.

That's what really happened in that cartoon though. But it is a determined media, you can't control it so tricks like that can be created easily. Not so easily to accomodate to each hitbox position, rotation, in relation to player's position and rotation and current animation frames and shit like that to actually create believable visual explanation on why the hit didn't connect (not to mention that the attacks and rolls are so fast that even if they would waste their time implementing such a system your ordinary player will never notice subtle animation changes to make it look so the blade or tale or fucking fire breath actually didn't touch the player character).

 

[Silverfish]

Are you an idiot or just pretending to be one? The blunt side of his sword hits his arm and it rolls off. He isn't physically being cut and not being harmed because he turned on god mode for 3 seconds. The blade doesn't cut him because the sharp edge never touches him.

 

[Ezekiel]

The old memes were funnier...

 

[Hell Swarm]

Are you an idiot or just pretending to be one? The blunt side of his sword hits his arm and it rolls off. He isn't physically being cut and not being harmed because he turned on god mode for 3 seconds. The blade doesn't cut him because the sharp edge never touches him.

Oh no, you have posted a soyjack. Whatever will I do except say "This looks like you"?

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Are you an idiot or just pretending to be one? The blunt side of his sword hits his arm and it rolls off. He isn't physically being cut and not being harmed because he turned on god mode for 3 seconds. The blade doesn't cut him because the sharp edge never touches him.

Oh no, you have posted a soyjack. Whatever will I do except say "This looks like you"?

say "coal"

 

[Silverfish]

Whatever will I do except say "This looks like you"?

You could try not "well, actually"ing an obvious joke post.

 

[Skinwalker]

Morgott the Omen King is clearly borrowing his name from Tolkien's Dark Lord Morgoth, but did you know that Gelmir is also a name that's borrowed from the same source?

With them they [orcs] brought Gelmir son of Guilin, that lord of Nargothrond whom they had captured in the Bragollach; and they had blinded him. [...] And they [orcs] hewed off Gelmir’s hands and feet, and his head last, within sight of the Elves, and left him.

Does anyone know if Leyndell is also borrowed from Tolkien? It looks like some form of Elvish... but I can't read it. Maybe based on Elendil?

P. S. Clearly, this is the work of GRRM. He has a few borrowings of Tolkien's names/terms in Game of Thrones. E.g. "valar morghulis" - both words are from the Silm/LotR, and Tyrion (the midget) is named after the elven city of Tirion upon Tuna.

 

[Odoryuk]

P. S. Clearly, this is the work of GRRM. He has a few borrowings of Tolkien's names/terms in Game of Thrones. E.g. "valar morghulis" - both words are from the Silm/LotR, and Tyrion (the midget) is named after the elven city of Tirion upon Tuna.

Anor Londo and Irithyll came from Tolkien as well.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Elden Ring fans in desperation mode rn. Hey, holding the crown for two years straight is a fine achievement. You take pride in that. Nobody considers JA3 to be GOTY. People just voted for it so Bear Fucker 3 wouldn't win, LOL! But there's a new king in town, baby.

 

[Lyric Suite]

BTW, out of curiosity, which game do you think did combat right under your criteria?

Monster Hunter series is probably the best if we're talking about a 3D action game imo. Aside from some janky stuff like the space warping Plesioth, you can generally predict where a monster is going to be at least half a second from now at any given moment, even on your first encounter. When a monster leaps at you, it follows a parabolic arc. When it rears back and lunges forward, it finishes the lunge instead of pausing halfway through for a quarter second to ruin your dodge timing. You can judge the range of a monster by the length of it's limbs and the way it moves in general, whether it's a lumbering beast or an agile predator. When I lose a fight in a MH game, pretty much without exception I feel like it was my fault for not reading the situation or managing my own resources properly. Monsters have a fatigue and rage system as well playing into their behaviour, and the fights are meant to last a long time and give you many chances to learn and adjust, instead of being over in 60 seconds, win or lose.

Mmmh, not having played the game i can't comment on whether i'd like this system but from videos it seems a bit too simplistic to me.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Lyric suit is dum. Souls games have some of my favorite combat but it's not the best. Monster Hunter World does alot of shit better.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The argument isn't about what's "best" it's about whether Souls combat is valid in the first place. People are bitching about the direction FromSoft has been going for over the years and claim that it is wrong and bad. I'm looking at the combat in Elden Ring and i fail to see where the bad is.

Elden Ring has it's problems for sure, but for me they are mostly related to the open world or stuff like the excessive recycling of some particularly ennoying enemies. But when it comes to the combat itself it's as brilliant as ever. Sure there's a bit of jank here and there (most glaringly with the dragons and their tendency to go out of bounds or get stuck in the clutter of the map) but i'd like to see the game that is completely free of jank. Even DS1 had some goofy shit.

 

[janior]

Replaying this game because me and my friend are playing co-op. Forgot how terrible this game was.

Open world is just useless filler where just looking at a map and just doing everything by a check off list is more reasonable than trying to explore blindly (not applicable to the actual levels). So many useless mechanics etc etc

I guess I can’t blame them because the souls gameplay formula was already exhausted in the first entry but this Ubisoft world design is so lazy.

everything they made past dark souls 3(including it) is trash

 

[Hell Swarm]

Whatever will I do except say "This looks like you"?

You could try not "well, actually"ing an obvious joke post.

We all know wojak posters take it quite seriously. You can't back out now, post a chud meme to own me!

People are bitching about the direction FromSoft has been going for over the years and claim that it is wrong and bad

The argument has always been that From are leaning harder into the action elements and less into the puzzle elements so games because more focused on a combat system lacking depth.

But when it comes to the combat itself it's as brilliant as ever.

It's far from brilliant. It's acceptable at best and there's plenty of things that aren't acceptable and From won't fix. When you hit a wolf with a sword as big and heavier than it is, you shouldn't expect the wolf to immediately counter swipe at you or just ignore you did it. It's silly and that's just the small issues. Enemies don't react at all to being hit or they get stun locked so they're not a threat if you can get a single hit in. Enemies range from boring soldiers who barely attack to flailing retards clipping through walls and instakilling you. There's no balance to any of this. If you want evidence for how broken the combat system is at this point look how badly ranged works on NPCs. They have pushed the basic system so hard now they have to give opponents input reading and make them dodge no matter what. It's exploitable but it's signs of a bigger problem where From never evolved with each game. They added a minor addition or some new animations and carried on chugging.

i'd like to see the game that is completely free of jank. Even DS1 had some goofy shit.

Dark souls 1 is not an excuse for Elden Ring. Dark souls 1 came out almost 15 years ago now and it's reasonable to expect the combat to have changed and improved in that time. But there isn't 15 years of improvement here. You could argue there's about 1 sequel's worth of improvements across the entire series of Souls likes by From. And a lot of the improvements they did make were rolled back with the next game.

 

[Odoryuk]

everything they made past dark souls 3(including it) is trash

You should try Deracine, I heard you play as a fairy there.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Whatever will I do except say "This looks like you"?

You could try not "well, actually"ing an obvious joke post.

We all know wojak posters take it quite seriously. You can't back out now, post a chud meme to own me!

People are bitching about the direction FromSoft has been going for over the years and claim that it is wrong and bad

The argument has always been that From are leaning harder into the action elements and less into the puzzle elements so games because more focused on a combat system lacking depth.

But when it comes to the combat itself it's as brilliant as ever.

It's far from brilliant. It's acceptable at best and there's plenty of things that aren't acceptable and From won't fix. When you hit a wolf with a sword as big and heavier than it is, you shouldn't expect the wolf to immediately counter swipe at you or just ignore you did it. It's silly and that's just the small issues. Enemies don't react at all to being hit or they get stun locked so they're not a threat if you can get a single hit in. Enemies range from boring soldiers who barely attack to flailing retards clipping through walls and instakilling you. There's no balance to any of this. If you want evidence for how broken the combat system is at this point look how badly ranged works on NPCs. They have pushed the basic system so hard now they have to give opponents input reading and make them dodge no matter what. It's exploitable but it's signs of a bigger problem where From never evolved with each game. They added a minor addition or some new animations and carried on chugging.

i'd like to see the game that is completely free of jank. Even DS1 had some goofy shit.

Dark souls 1 is not an excuse for Elden Ring. Dark souls 1 came out almost 15 years ago now and it's reasonable to expect the combat to have changed and improved in that time. But there isn't 15 years of improvement here. You could argue there's about 1 sequel's worth of improvements across the entire series of Souls likes by From. And a lot of the improvements they did make were rolled back with the next game.

Yeah but coming from someone who doesn't like the combat system this is all worthless.