From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Odoryuk]

How can you be so right about DkS2 and 3 and at the same time be so wrong about Sekiro? Huh? How can 2 personalities coexist with one another?

Different echochambers.

 

[Multidirectional]

In my experience, games that emphasize combos and shit are usually the ones that encourage experimentation and truly allow for improvisation...

To me it depends on how these combos are done. I hate having to memorize strict combos that consist of long complicated button sequences, that's why I'm not big on shit like Mortal Kombat. But I do love more free flowing combos that you create yourself by stringing different moves together that are not hard to learn by themselves, like you can do in DMC or Nioh. That's definitely my type of combat. Dancing to the tune of boss From style I don't really have much patience for anymore, I like being able to let loose and make them my bitch if I pick the right combination of moves to string together.
In Nioh 2 some bosses went from being very challenging to being helpless stunlocked bitches and I'm fine with that, although I'm sure some people will see that as flaw of design and proof that game is broken or whatever. I don't need everything to be as hard as possible. N2 is just right level of difficulty for me. I feel fairly safe once I get into the groove but I can also still die fast if I get complacent and start derping.

 

[Skinwalker]

P. S. Clearly, this is the work of GRRM. He has a few borrowings of Tolkien's names/terms in Game of Thrones. E.g. "valar morghulis" - both words are from the Silm/LotR, and Tyrion (the midget) is named after the elven city of Tirion upon Tuna.

Anor Londo and Irithyll came from Tolkien as well.

Oh yeah... Anor was obvious, but Irithyll = Ithilien is something I just realized. Thanks, Odor!

 

[Lyric Suite]

In my experience, games that emphasize combos and shit are usually the ones that encourage experimentation and truly allow for improvisation...

But i'm not interested in improvisation, i'm interested in discovery. It's the "figuring out" part that i like, not the "you can do what you want" part.

I made it to Nioh up to the frog boss (had to pause for a second but i'll finish NG soon), and not once i felt compelled to constantly change up skills and movesets. Unless the game itself compels me i don't see any reason to do that besides boredom. Right now i have like 50 unspent skill points and it's mostly because i'm still trying to test and "savour" the few abilities i unlocked so far. Eventually i'll get tired and will try something else but i'm not sure i'll ever start spamming multiple abilities, fluxing between stances or even going so far as change weapons to chain even more esoteric combos just for the hell of it.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

i'm interested in discovery.

Experimentation by definition implies discovery...

 

[Multidirectional]

The reason to try out all types of shit and mix it together is that you actually end up needing it on highest difficulties so might as well enjoy destroying things with as much style as you can on lower levels while getting used to the mentality. Like DMC V style rank system, you don't really need it on first two difficulties but if you are not used to being stylish by the time you play Dante Must Die, you are pretty fucked. As I've learned myself. Also, Odachi is pretty known for being noob friendly weapon that doesn't really force you to git gud if you don't want. You can just spam same skills over and over. It's pretty op in N2 as well. If you find it easy just try out different types of weapons, not all of them are equally simple to use.

Having 50 unspent skill points sounds seems like absolute madness to me and would never happen in my games. I spend them things as soon as I get them. And I try out any new moves I get.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I wish the game was that hard from the get go.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Not only that, but by trying these things out you end-up learning alot more about the mechanics and enemy design, plus you're more likely to find a style of gameplay you'll enjoy more.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I wish the game was that hard from the get go.

But Nioh is harder than any DS game...

 

[Lyric Suite]

I wish the game was that hard from the get go.

But Nioh is harder than any DS game...

Not on NG it isn't.

 

[janior]

the great discovery of copypasted elden ring dungeons with the same bosses...

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I wish the game was that hard from the get go.

But Nioh is harder than any DS game...

Not on NG it isn't.

Well I certainly died more often...

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I hate having to memorize strict combos that consist of long complicated button sequences
...
But I do love more free flowing combos that you create yourself by stringing different moves together that are not hard to learn by themselves, like you can do in DMC or Nioh.

I also shun overly long dial-a-combos, but I don't believe those more classic figthing game combo systems are inherently bad - specially if they're kept short and sweet
Imo 5 input sequences should be more than enough to fulfill any gameplay purposes

I guess this is why in figthing games I prefer more straigthfoward characters whose gameplay is knowing how and when to chain together different smaller moves, over characters whose main gameplan is finding windows to perform specific combo sequences (for example in Tekken, despite really liking King I've never bothered with learning his long multi-grapple moves and mostly stuck to his strikes and quicker grapples)

 

[HeatEXTEND]

I'd say Nioh is much harder than DS, no question; to me Nioh almost always feels like Destroy or Be Destroyed.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

More than it being harder, it's that it's less forgiving... Deaths can happen in a couple of blows. You do get more chances to study enemies in Souls. But I wouldn't say Nioh actually wanted to provide a challenge beyond those tough fights.

 

[Multidirectional]

Are you talking specifically Nioh 1? Because Nioh 2 to me is easier than Dark Souls III or ER. Or at least feels a lot more fair. Specifically because I don't feel like I have to perfectly memorize the timing of every single enemy attack, which I don't have a lot of patience for. I'd rather that happen naturally over the course of multiple playthroughs rather than being stuck on a boss until I do so. I am never tempted to use summons to beat any of the bosses in N2, unless we are talking Underworld higher floor bosses. In DS III and ER there are multiple bosses that I couldn't be arsed to learn to do on my own and just ended up summoning for. Though I could agree that regular enemies tend to be a more significant challenge than the ones in Souls games. Between all the Yokai types there are some pretty nasty fucks out there. Especially the DLC enemies and once they start appearing in base game missions on higher difficulties the difference is certainly felt.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Nioh 1, haven't played 2 all that much yet.

 

[Multidirectional]

Nioh 1, haven't played 2 all that much yet.

I'm same with N1, I only played about a third of NG there maybe so no clue which game overall is harder. And I don't want to go back to playing without Yokai Abilities so I might never find out.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Hardest game will be decided by personal preference. If you gel specifically with a designer's style you will find their games way easier than one you clash with.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Nioh 1 feels way easier than Sekiro to me which i just played a couple of months ago.

Of course, i've been through pretty much every FromSoft game that's avilable on PC so i got a shit ton of practice at this point.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Out of curiosity how much of NG is left? Like i said i just killed the frog boss, the one in the ninja house with the illusions.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Dunno but that's towards the latter part of the game if remember correctly, I got mindwiped by

discovering magic is OP

the dual bossfights

i think

 

[Silverfish]

If you don't enjoy summoning an army and using weapon arts you're in for a seriously rough time from basically the capital on wards.

Pretty stupid on From's part to tailor the difficulty around the game's mechanics.

 

[Damned Registrations]

If you don't enjoy summoning an army and using weapon arts you're in for a seriously rough time from basically the capital on wards.

Pretty stupid on From's part to tailor the difficulty around the game's mechanics.

Maybe From should have tailored the game's mechanics around the game's mechanics instead, so summoning shit doesn't make bosses into retarded pincushions that pose less of a threat than a single trash mob.

 

[Nathir]

BTW, out of curiosity, which game do you think did combat right under your criteria?

Monster Hunter series is probably the best if we're talking about a 3D action game imo. Aside from some janky stuff like the space warping Plesioth, you can generally predict where a monster is going to be at least half a second from now at any given moment, even on your first encounter. When a monster leaps at you, it follows a parabolic arc. When it rears back and lunges forward, it finishes the lunge instead of pausing halfway through for a quarter second to ruin your dodge timing. You can judge the range of a monster by the length of it's limbs and the way it moves in general, whether it's a lumbering beast or an agile predator. When I lose a fight in a MH game, pretty much without exception I feel like it was my fault for not reading the situation or managing my own resources properly. Monsters have a fatigue and rage system as well playing into their behaviour, and the fights are meant to last a long time and give you many chances to learn and adjust, instead of being over in 60 seconds, win or lose.

In an even broader sense, fighting games are what set the bar for action combat. Assuming players of equal skill, the match is about mindgames and reading behaviour, rather than timing or memorization. You're never totally in control, but jump kicking someone in the face when they go for their 3rd sweep kick in a row feels satisfying in a way poking at a golem's ankles after it does attack variant 2B does not.

This is why modern fighters suck. Everything that requires skill is dumbed down or removed, just so you can have players spam the same safe moves over and over and it feels much more like guessing than skill.